Founder of startup hears sexual harrassment complaint, what would you do?

[Polyxo]

Step 1: Lawyer up.
Step 2: Hold a HR meeting to attempt to talk it out.
Step 3: Hold a seminar informing everyone that sexual harassment is bad.
Step 4: Regardless of the outcomes of step 1-3, fire his ass.

I agree with this method, though firing may or may not be necessary. I'm a girl in computer science, and while at my current job, I haven't had any problems, sexual harassment and sexism is pretty rampant in IT. I've had ass grabs, inappropriate comments, to professors announcing that women do not belong in computer science. Some of this stuff is just sexist or creeptastic assholes who really should be fired. Other cases are completely socially inept people who have no idea what is appropriate or professional behavior and what is not. Some of those guys can be 'fixed' with a serious but understanding sit-down talk, because they really didn't know. Others need to be fired yesterday.

[Steve French]

I know exactly what I am talking about.

You are the one lost in delusions of your own crafting.

Goodnight.

Goodnight bud, I enjoyed our productive "conversation".

[Steve French]

I agree with this method, though firing may or may not be necessary. I'm a girl in computer science, and while at my current job, I haven't had any problems, sexual harassment and sexism is pretty rampant in IT. I've had ass grabs, inappropriate comments, to professors announcing that women do not belong in computer science. Some of this stuff is just sexist or creeptastic assholes who really should be fired. Other cases are completely socially inept people who have no idea what is appropriate or professional behavior and what is not. Some of those guys can be 'fixed' with a serious but understanding sit-down talk, because they really didn't know. Others need to be fired yesterday.

Yes men need to be "fixed" and taught they can't just go around asking women out. What do they think this is? as karnak loves to say... KINDERGARTEN!?

[Mormolyce]

So, if you don't have experience asking people out you should just never ask people out? You see the problem with this right?

That's not a lack of experience, that's a severe defect in social skills. Probably a personality disorder.

[Adamas102]

It's almost like he's trying to point out how ridiculously stupid your posts are or something right? Imagine that.

I literally just explain, step by step, why this sort of response of yours is lazy and meaningless. Thanks for proving me right. Again...

[Steve French]

That's not a lack of experience, that's a severe defect in social skills. Probably a personality disorder.

Haha, saying the word milf makes him have a personality disorder? Makes sense to me.

- - - Updated - - -

I literally just explain, step by step, why this sort of response of yours is lazy and meaningless. Thanks for proving me right. Again...

Actually I think you proved me right. You're the best.

[Kapadons]

You really think they nearly always end badly? I agree they probably nearly always end but that's just the nature of relationships in general. The average person dates more than one person in their lifetime so obviously the majority of relationships end. I doubt coworkers getting involved ends badly anymore than people who weren't .

Work just adds another layer to relationship that leads to trouble. People know you dated. They take sides. One spreads rumors about the other to coworkers, or tells the extremely personal stuff that others wouldn't normally be privy to. Or they start to date another coworker making the work environment even more uncomfortable. Or the bring drama that costs you performance or makes you look bad to your bosses. Not dating someone from work literally cuts out of all that. I've just always had a personal goal not to date someone from my company. Work time is time to focus on work. Outside work is time to chase tail. But I met my wife at a restaurant we both worked at briefly. So what the fuck do I know. Granted we didn't "date" while being coworkers. We did work for the same company but different departments after we were married tho.

[Deleted]

Wow, most of you guys would be preety horrible employers.

No further investigation, no questioning of the enterprise culture, no conversation, just lawyer up and fire?

The whole incident really needs to be further investigated before such rash decisions can be made.

[Adamas102]

You think all those things you listed that people do in response to coworkers dating would be appropriate in the work place? If people were spreading rumors of any kind that's closer to harassment than hitting on someone once. Those are all very immature ways to act as an adult. If two people like each other their relationship is none of your business.

He didn't say they were appropriate. The point he's trying to make is that those are all possible pitfalls associated with dating coworkers. Obviously that isn't how they SHOULD act, but it's how things sometimes unravel. Just think long and hard about it if you're planning on pursuing someone that, if things don't work out, you're still going to have to interact with on a day to day basis. It definitely makes for a different dynamic than what you get from a typical romantic relationship.

[Thoughtful Trolli]

Wow, most of you guys would be preety horrible employers.

No further investigation, no questioning of the enterprise culture, no conversation, just lawyer up and fire?

The whole incident really needs to be further investigated before such rash decisions can be made.

Not to mention the fact that most modern companies revolve around a few talented individuals. Then the problem would be that you laid out an opportunity for your most talented employee to bait himself into by hiring someone he's interested in to work with him.

If he was the crux of the opportunity to provide the world with more options at a profit, and you could travel back in time to fix this situation, it wouldn't be implausible to make sure you just never hired her.

[Kapadons]

You think all those things you listed that people do in response to coworkers dating would be appropriate in the work place? If people were spreading rumors of any kind that's closer to harassment than hitting on someone once. Those are all very immature ways to act as an adult. If two people like each other their relationship is none of your business.

What adamas said.

I didn't mean other coworkers do that in response to your relationship, I meant those are the pitfalls of dating someone at work. Having to deal with them on a daily basis.

[purebalance]

If I have a coworker's personal cell number in order to contact them in case of a work emergency, that doesn't give me carte blanche to treat them as I would a lifelong buddy. According to the employee, she had made it clear that their interactions should adhere to what should be expected between coworkers. Calling someone a "milf" doesn't fit within those bounds. It doesn't matter that it didn't happen at the office between the hours of 9 to 5.

Wasn't texting so try again. It was on Whatsap. Read the article.

[Adamas102]

Wasn't texting so try again. It was on Whatsap. Read the article.

Holy fuck... Are you serious? It was only four sentences. Point out exactly where I specified that they were sending SMS text messages instead of using a non-SMS text messaging app.

So, if it doesn't work out you just for sure know you won't be able to be around that person and act like an adult? You probably weren't all that interested in the person in the first place then if you can't be friends regardless of how the relationship went. Sure, it's a different dynamic but it doesn't imply it's against common sense to pursue a relationship with a co-worker. The point is you shouldn't just fire the guy without looking into it more and giving him a warning. What could possibly go wrong with that route?

First off, no one said "for sure". Secondly, we're talking about dating coworkers in general, not the specific scenario in the OP which can't even be classified as "dating". I'm not going to speak for everyone else, but I certainly never said the guy was in the wrong for WANTING to date a coworker.

[Kapadons]

. The point is you shouldn't just fire the guy without looking into it more and giving him a warning. What could possibly go wrong with that route

This would have been my choice of action. But the 2 issues are;

Milf and how an HR or lawyer/judge would choose to interpret it. If they choose it as he is just saying she is attractive, then not really a big deal. If they choose to interpret it as "mom I'd like to fuck" it's actual meaning, that is explicitly sexual. Which crosses a line of what a normal person would consider "harmless flirting" or making romantic advances on. In the world of business, especially corporate business, the name of the game is risk aversion. Minimize your risk to be sued. Any HR persons sole job is to help you not get sued, by her or by him.

The second thing is how daily life goes on after this. If you fire him, she feels guilty and can't trust you because she came to you in confidence and asked you not to do anything. If you do nothing, you have the basis, already documented, for a lawsuit if he does it again. Also, some people can be really petty. How does the work environment change. Does she tell everyone else he is a skeezy perv that hit on her, therefore undermining his ability to work with others? Does he blackball her as a tattle tell to other employees who then become wary of opening dialogue with her for fear of her taking it as sexual harassment ? It's all too mucky to have a clear answer.

If this is a small business, not corporate, it's not publicly traded and most importantly, he didn't use the term "I'd like to fuck" but merely asked her out, said she was attractive, and she said no thanks, then a simple talking too or write up would be the best course of action

[Slant]

Ok, my opinion is going to be unpopular, but I wouldn't move a finger. If employees want to socialise out of work context (and she did, obviously), it's on them. What I find peculiar is why she's going to her boss to basically rat the other guy out and then ties his hands by saying he shouldn't do something about it. Yes, well... you don't go to your boss, whinge about something and then tell him not to do something about it. You don't go to your boss in the first place. If you can deal with it on your own, why the hell are you wasting the time of your boss?

Unless you speculate on him firing that ass and you having a clean conscience, of course. How convenient.

And so far, it's all just based on what she said. We don't know what happened, we just know that she told her boss some story. Could be true. Could be bullshit. Could be distorted half-truth. Women are hardly able to phrase context clearly at the best of times, who knows what she misinterpreted or overthought... nah, I wouldn't do a thing.

[Deleted]

Ok, my opinion is going to be unpopular, but I wouldn't move a finger. If employees want to socialise out of work context (and she did, obviously), it's on them. What I find peculiar is why she's going to her boss to basically rat the other guy out and then ties his hands by saying he shouldn't do something about it. Yes, well... you don't go to your boss, whinge about something and then tell him not to do something about it. You don't go to your boss in the first place. If you can deal with it on your own, why the hell are you wasting the time of your boss?

Unless you speculate on him firing that ass and you having a clean conscience, of course. How convenient.

And so far, it's all just based on what she said. We don't know what happened, we just know that she told her boss some story. Could be true. Could be bullshit. Could be distorted half-truth. Women are hardly able to phrase context clearly at the best of times, who knows what she misinterpreted or overthought... nah, I wouldn't do a thing.

This, this soo much.

From my point of view the founders real issues are:
- Integrity of his leadership and his process of decision-making:
Should you really consult the internet on long-term decisions that will not only affect yourself, but also your coworkers and employees?
This is especially troublesome cause he provides miniscule information, but expects informed feedback.

- The enterprise-culture of his start-up:
Does his company have a strong culture? What is it like? - this might seem like a small thing, but should not be.
In simple speach:
Do you want your employees to view the workplace as just an income-source they bugger off to for 8 hours a day, to follow the rules and bring nothing outside the contract to the table?
Or do you want them to feel like it's their second home, where they contribute on a higher level, but also feel safe?
Finding a healthy combination isvery important.

If anything, the case at hand displays a rather unhealthy culture overall (ratting and hypocrisy), which should be fixed.

- Is the culture being communicated to the new employees well enough?
There might be a culture set in stone there, but did the new guy know about it? The orientation should make it clear what is expected of one (not only the formal expectations).
The guy might have worked previously in a company that takes it easier and less formal with the relationships between employees and might have expected the same situation in his new workplace.
Or perhaps he might have observed this kind of behaviour from someone else at the workspace?

[Berengil]

Harassment is defined as an ongoing thing, right? So, if he stopped after she said she wasn't interested, no harm.

I'd pull him aside and tell him to knock it off. Something like " Dude, I realize you stopped after she said no. Good. You know what's better than that? Never, ever, ever make a move on someone you work with. Don't sht where you eat. If I hear one more thing like this about you, you're gone."

[purebalance]

Holy fuck... Are you serious? It was only four sentences. Point out exactly where I specified that they were sending SMS text messages instead of using a non-SMS text messaging app.



First off, no one said "for sure". Secondly, we're talking about dating coworkers in general, not the specific scenario in the OP which can't even be classified as "dating". I'm not going to speak for everyone else, but I certainly never said the guy was in the wrong for WANTING to date a coworker.

You literally said "if I had a co workers cell phone number to text for emergencies" just stop trying to lie now. You LITERALLY implied it was given from work for work purposes when it was not.

[Fenixdown]

Why so many of you think its illegal to try to date a co worker ?

This is what gets me, here. If I read this story correctly, this was an individual incident, not repeated over an extended period of time. He's hitting on her, she says no thanks...and as far as I can tell, it stops there. Is calling her a MILF a great way to get a date with her? In most cases, no. Is it harassment? I mean...saying it once to her in a text? C'mon, people.

At WORST, I'd suggest having a sit-down with the guy to explain why calling a co-worker a MILF (or any woman in general) is ill-advised. This certainly doesn't seem worthy of immediate termination. And I say this as an assistant store manager. If someone came to me with this, I'd want more information before swinging any axes on people's heads.

[purebalance]

This is what gets me, here. If I read this story correctly, this was an individual incident, not repeated over an extended period of time. He's hitting on her, she says no thanks...and as far as I can tell, it stops there. Is calling her a MILF a great way to get a date with her? In most cases, no. Is it harassment? I mean...saying it once to her in a text? C'mon, people.

At WORST, I'd suggest having a sit-down with the guy to explain why calling a co-worker a MILF (or any woman in general) is ill-advised. This certainly doesn't seem worthy of immediate termination. And I say this as an assistant store manager. If someone came to me with this, I'd want more information before swinging any axes on people's heads.

Welcome to the world we live in. Just wait for Batman to come in and start with his people just hate "liburlz" and "ess jay dubyas" when their virulence has in fact infected people to where this guy did nothing wrong and people are now lying to make it sound like he did when confronted.