I think Blizzard should remove vote to kick restrictions...

[TCGamer]

Honestly, it's not my job to teach them. There is nothing requiring me to do so, nor is there any reason for me to be expected to.
You can claim social responsibility all you want, but I don't play the game for other people, and I shouldn't be expected to.
That's why removing vote kick restrictions, and/or getting rid of Dungeon Deserter would be a good thing, if a group just doesn't want to have to deal with a shitty/new player, they aren't forced to. There is nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong with someone who wants to take on that responsibility.

If you don't want to deal with people that may not know what they are doing in a RANDOM group, form your own group. It's really that simple.

[Tinykong]

The restrictions needs to be either made smarter or changed, but not removed.

Quite a few times I've had to just 4 man a dungeon because the toxic 5th player either wouldn't move, wouldn't heal or wouldn't tank for whatever reason, and the group was unable to kick them.

[Zenotetsuken]

If you don't want to deal with people that may not know what they are doing in a RANDOM group, form your own group. It's really that simple.

Sorry, but there is no requirement that I be expected to deal with people who don't know what they are doing. YOU have taken on the social responsibility of running the dungeon with them, yet that somehow translates to you electing ME to take on that burden as well.
People who don't know what they are doing are the ones who SHOULD be forming their own group, that way they will be assured to learn something, instead of the current system where they are simply having a group run them through the dungeon.
If they want to add that as a requirement to the dungeon queue, then so be it, but until that happens, people who don't know what they are doing are the problem, not the people who don't want to deal with them.


I think that you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. There are FAR more accepting players in WoW than there are those that would simply boot people for not being great. Even I have NEVER voted to kick someone that was simply not good, I have only ever voted to kick someone that was being a POS and actively stopping us from doing the dungeon; and a very few times when there was someone that was given directions numerous times and still repeatedly continued to wipe the group.
Removing most of the restrictions from vote to kick would help to remove the majority of the toxic players in the dungeons, which will be better for those same people that you are claiming shouldn't be punished for being new/not great.

[TCGamer]

Sorry, but there is no requirement that I be expected to deal with people who don't know what they are doing. YOU have taken on the social responsibility of running the dungeon with them, yet that somehow translates to you electing ME to take on that burden as well.
People who don't know what they are doing are the ones who SHOULD be forming their own group, that way they will be assured to learn something, instead of the current system where they are simply having a group run them through the dungeon.
If they want to add that as a requirement to the dungeon queue, then so be it, but until that happens, people who don't know what they are doing are the problem, not the people who don't want to deal with them.

There's no requirement that people that are new can't queue for a RANDOM group.

The only way to ensure you get the quality of player you want to play with is to form your own group with like-minded people.

That's it.

The people that want to control who they play with in a RANDOM group are the problem. Get over it, and form a group you can control.

[crakerjack]

Yea I've been kicked out of groups for some stupid reasons. I came into WoD late and during a heroic I decided to go one route over the other... well the group kicked me because we chose to do one boss before another even though it didn't matter. Was that one dungeon w/ the fire boss on the bridge.

[Zenotetsuken]

There's no requirement that people that are new can't queue for a RANDOM group.

The only way to ensure you get the quality of player you want to play with is to form your own group with like-minded people.

That's it.

The people that want to control who they play with in a RANDOM group are the problem. Get over it, and form a group you can control.

I edited my comment, but not before you responded to it, here's the edit.

I think that you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. There are FAR more accepting players in WoW than there are those that would simply boot people for not being great. Even I have NEVER voted to kick someone that was simply not good, I have only ever voted to kick someone that was being a POS and actively stopping us from doing the dungeon; and a very few times when there was someone that was given directions numerous times and still repeatedly continued to wipe the group.
Removing most of the restrictions from vote to kick would help to remove the majority of the toxic players in the dungeons, which will be better for those same people that you are claiming shouldn't be punished for being new/not great.

[Jewsco]

I've not changed my tune at all. People abusing the system is a rarity. Its a non-issue. Its ridiculous to claim otherwise.

Yet here are people claiming it is. Just because you haven't experienced it( and I seriously doubt it) doesn't make it so. And at first you said it doesn't happen and then you did flip flop and then claim it happens .5% of the time( where you got that made up number from is another thing). So which is it? And you keep avoiding the lead in this too. If it does happen with the restrictions in place what in the world makes you think it would be better and not abused if they were taken away? Have you not played this game or even seen how some act in this site? Some people would indeed abuse just to annoy people and you know it. Some would abuse it to make so type of point against the lfg system and you know it. Finally some would abuse it looking for runs with only high ilevel people Nevermind to gear up from the dungeon/raid is the point and just to do a speed run and you know it. Who you think you are kidding?

[The Whimsical Dwarf]

Only restrictions I want removed is the inability to kick if they have been previously kicked AND if it is within the "Cool Down" of a dungeons start. The rest can stay. Those two however, they need to be gone and done with. Tired of people joining and being AFK but I can't kick them for 15 minutes. Tired of people getting kicked for being shit then coming right into my group and being shit and not being able to be kicked.

So much this.

The kick system is good the way it is except for it's strange protection of recently kicked people. There is a reason this person got kicked. Let us kick him at the start of our dungeon.

[epLe]

They could just auto kick afk'ers after a couple minutes inactivity, like they do in i.e overwatch.

People use the kicking system to grief so much, in so many ways, it would be better if it was automatically.

[PixelFox]

I find it annoying that three dps can whine-up together and kick a tank or healer because they're bitching about speed or something.

My spouse and I were tank/heals in BRD the other night and get a purple BOE world drop sword off some trash. We both rolled on it and healer won it, and the three dps proceeded to kick her because "ninja'd from tank". I proceeded to tell them they were idiots and left them to die alone, to be eaten alive by scarab beetles at their torches slowly flickered out.

It would be nice if a vote would require at least one of either the tank or healer to concur.

[Pony Soldier]

Honestly, it's not my job to teach them. There is nothing requiring me to do so, nor is there any reason for me to be expected to.
You can claim social responsibility all you want, but I don't play the game for other people, and I shouldn't be expected to.
That's why removing vote kick restrictions, and/or getting rid of Dungeon Deserter would be a good thing, if a group just doesn't want to have to deal with a shitty/new player, they aren't forced to. There is nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong with someone who wants to take on that responsibility.

Well then sounds like you should be forming a group within your guild or with friends then. The fact is there are newer players in this game who haven't done everything you have and are not as good at the game as you are. You're right though there's no obligation to help these people but it's called being a considerate person. It takes literally like 1 min of your time to help someone out. If you can't dedicate that small amount of time out of your life to help explain something to someone in a computer game then you must be miserable douchebag in real life.

And this is why the game has become so anti-social too because of people like you. This is the reason nobody wants to talk to anybody because they'll either get ignored or kicked from a group because of their lack of understanding of the game or some other stupid reason. People complain about the game losing it's social aspect because of LFG/LFR but yet here we have people like you who want to avoid any sort of interaction with people all because they don't know about something in the game. Gotta love the WoW community.

[The Whimsical Dwarf]

I find it annoying that three dps can whine-up together and kick a tank or healer because they're bitching about speed or something.

My spouse and I were tank/heals in BRD the other night and get a purple BOE world drop sword off some trash. We both rolled on it and healer won it, and the three dps proceeded to kick her because "ninja'd from tank". I proceeded to tell them they were idiots and left them to die alone, to be eaten alive by scarab beetles at their torches slowly flickered out.

It would be nice if a vote would require at least one of either the tank or healer to concur.

Protip: You're not the boss of the group because you're a tank or healer.

[Deleted]

I think that if we remove restrictions for kicking, we need to add a big one:

players of the same guild of the same server count as one vote.



Otherwise it's just guild runs kicking people happily as they please.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Yet here are people claiming it is. Just because you haven't experienced it( and I seriously doubt it) doesn't make it so. And at first you said it doesn't happen and then you did flip flop and then claim it happens .5% of the time( where you got that made up number from is another thing). So which is it? And you keep avoiding the lead in this too. If it does happen with the restrictions in place what in the world makes you think it would be better and not abused if they were taken away? Have you not played this game or even seen how some act in this site? Some people would indeed abuse just to annoy people and you know it. Some would abuse it to make so type of point against the lfg system and you know it. Finally some would abuse it looking for runs with only high ilevel people Nevermind to gear up from the dungeon/raid is the point and just to do a speed run and you know it. Who you think you are kidding?

People are often wrong. Getting kicked from a group "randomly" (and not being honest about the real reason) isn't really an issue.

No, I didn't flip flop.

I've already explained why I think that. You just ignored it. "Some people might abuse it" isn't proof of anything. Its not reasoning against something. You yourself stated this doesn't happen to you. Kick abuse is a minority issue. I've been playing for 10 years, and SOMEHOW I've avoided being kicked but a few times. Of those times I was either DCed, or something along those lines. None of them that I recall were because some "big ole meany was picking on me!!!!"

[PixelFox]

Protip: You're not the boss of the group because you're a tank or healer.

Why yes, actually I believe I am.

If you're going to ignore the tank and do your own thing then clearly we have a problem.

I'm not asking for the ability to kick people, I'm asking for the three yahoo DPS to NOT be able to kick the tank (as an example) without the healer going along with it.

[Zenotetsuken]

Well then sounds like you should be forming a group within your guild or with friends then. The fact is there are newer players in this game who haven't done everything you have and are not as good at the game as you are. You're right though there's no obligation to help these people but it's called being a considerate person. It takes literally like 1 min of your time to help someone out. If you can't dedicate that small amount of time out of your life to help explain something to someone in a computer game then you must be miserable douchebag in real life.

And this is why the game has become so anti-social too because of people like you. This is the reason nobody wants to talk to anybody because they'll either get ignored or kicked from a group because of their lack of understanding of the game or some other stupid reason. People complain about the game losing it's social aspect because of LFG/LFR but yet here we have people like you who want to avoid any sort of interaction with people all because they don't know about something in the game. Gotta love the WoW community.

You are placing the burden of teaching new players how to play on random people who never said that they are willing to help them. You should direct your frustration at Blizzard, not the people that you have dictated will teach someone something.
The reason that no one talks to anyone is because we are there to do a job as efficiently as possible. Why would someone care to talk to someone that they will never see again?

I AM a miserable douchebag IRL, I don't try to hide it.
Your opinion that it is the responsibility of other players to teach someone how to play is false. There is no requirement to teaching someone, and there is no incentive to teaching someone, so there is no obligation to teach someone.
Should I go to work, do my job, and train someone else how to do their job? No, because it's not my job or responsibility. If they go "Hey, could you help me out?" I am more than willing to help them, just like in WoW. I have taught more people in this game over the years about gear/spec/dungeons/raids/stats/directions/mods/etc than I can possibly be expected to remember, but the one thing they all had in common was they needed to ask me, not the other way around.

I'm sorry that reality doesn't live up to the fairy tale world that you have made up in your own mind, but people don't generally respond well to being volunteered to do things that are the responsibility of someone else.

[judgementofantonidas]

With the removal of proving grounds... Well with a fresh expac I kind of think dungeon finder will turn either into cruising for a bruising mode or soloable easy...

If we can't get some bare min of a standard I think blizzard should remove all restrictions on vote to kick. Let us police ourselves.

autokick should just happen if a player is deemed by the system to be underperforming.

- - - Updated - - -

Why yes, actually I believe I am.

If you're going to ignore the tank and do your own thing then clearly we have a problem.

I'm not asking for the ability to kick people, I'm asking for the three yahoo DPS to NOT be able to kick the tank (as an example) without the healer going along with it.

yahoo dps are an issue. and they tend to be more of an issue nearer the end of an expac.

[Pony Soldier]

You are placing the burden of teaching new players how to play on random people who never said that they are willing to help them. You should direct your frustration at Blizzard, not the people that you have dictated will teach someone something.
The reason that no one talks to anyone is because we are there to do a job as efficiently as possible. Why would someone care to talk to someone that they will never see again?

I AM a miserable douchebag IRL, I don't try to hide it.
Your opinion that it is the responsibility of other players to teach someone how to play is false. There is no requirement to teaching someone, and there is no incentive to teaching someone, so there is no obligation to teach someone.
Should I go to work, do my job, and train someone else how to do their job? No, because it's not my job or responsibility. If they go "Hey, could you help me out?" I am more than willing to help them, just like in WoW. I have taught more people in this game over the years about gear/spec/dungeons/raids/stats/directions/mods/etc than I can possibly be expected to remember, but the one thing they all had in common was they needed to ask me, not the other way around.

I'm sorry that reality doesn't live up to the fairy tale world that you have made up in your own mind, but people don't generally respond well to being volunteered to do things that are the responsibility of someone else.

Nowhere did I say that it was the responsibility of other players to teach other people how to play. I only said that it's considered to be nice and considerate of you to do such things like any normal human being would do. So not sure where you got that from. I even agreed on the point that it is not an obligation.

Also now you're confusing the hell out of me. First you say we should get rid of kicking requirements because you don't feel like helping people but now you're saying if they ask you're more than willing to help. So....what am I missing here? By saying this you are saying that before kicking someone you would actually help them out if they asked but you support just kicking people for no reason. I fail to see the logic here. Doesn't make sense for someone to only help if they asked for it. If you see someone having a hard time with something in any situation you mean to tell me you wouldn't at least tell the person what he/she is doing wrong all because they never asked? "Oh he got his arm cut off from that machine because he didn't know how to work it?" "Didn't you help him?" "I would've but he never asked for help". It's not even about a responsibility it's just being a human being which obviously you are horrible at.

And no I won't be blaming Blizzard for social problems because it was never their fault in the first place. They've added so many social features to this game that made WoW so much more of a social game than it has ever been. Yet despite all these features still no one talks to each other or works together, people are almost always against each other. How is this Blizzard's fault? When it comes down to social activities such as grouping up for dungeons/raids it's all in the hands of the people in that group. WoW is anti-social because no one wants to talk to each other or there's people like you who will just kick people because they didn't know something instead of taking like 30 seconds out of your miserable life to type in a few words to help out.

[Zenotetsuken]

Nowhere did I say that it was the responsibility of other players to teach other people how to play. I only said that it's considered to be nice and considerate of you to do such things like any normal human being would do. So not sure where you got that from. I even agreed on the point that it is not an obligation.

Also now you're confusing the hell out of me. First you say we should get rid of kicking requirements because you don't feel like helping people but now you're saying if they ask you're more than willing to help. So....what am I missing here? By saying this you are saying that before kicking someone you would actually help them out if they asked but you support just kicking people for no reason. I fail to see the logic here. Doesn't make sense for someone to only help if they asked for it. If you see someone having a hard time with something in any situation you mean to tell me you wouldn't at least tell the person what he/she is doing wrong all because they never asked? "Oh he got his arm cut off from that machine because he didn't know how to work it?" "Didn't you help him?" "I would've but he never asked for help". It's not even about a responsibility it's just being a human being which obviously you are horrible at.

And no I won't be blaming Blizzard for social problems because it was never their fault in the first place. They've added so many social features to this game that made WoW so much more of a social game than it has ever been. Yet despite all these features still no one talks to each other or works together, people are almost always against each other. How is this Blizzard's fault? When it comes down to social activities such as grouping up for dungeons/raids it's all in the hands of the people in that group. WoW is anti-social because no one wants to talk to each other or there's people like you who will just kick people because they didn't know something instead of taking like 30 seconds out of your miserable life to type in a few words to help out.

Again, like I already said, the only people that I have ever booted from a group have been trolls/AFKers and people who MULTIPLE times cause the group to wipe and refuse to fix their issues (and yes, a lot of time that does mean that they don't ask for help, and if they DON'T ask for help, I don't offer it)

This "Oh he got his arm cut off from that machine because he didn't know how to work it?" "Didn't you help him?" "I would've but he never asked for help" is absolutely true. I would help him to not bleed out and die, but I would consider that a moral obligation to attempt to save someone's life. It would however still be his own fault for not asking for help doing something that he didn't understand, and I would have very little sympathy for him.

It is Blizzard's responsibility to teach people how to play their game (Which they were kind of starting to do with Proving Grounds) not other players'. Dungeons/Raids/PvP aren't social activities, they are progression activities that require other people to complete. Social activities would involve doing something for the specific reason of doing them with other people.

I don't play this game for other people, I play it for myself, if you have so much trouble with that concept then the problem lies with you, not me. If you can't even take the time to say "Hey man, could you give me a hand?" why then should I be expected to offer my time?
You keep taking this stance that ignorance=innocence, but that is simply not true... ever. Those people who don't ask for help are the only ones to blame for their own failure.

[judgementofantonidas]

With all due respect to people here, WoW community have shitty people playing. Nothing worse than abusing the vote kick tool.

Especially when it's concerning DPS meters. A guy can't pull high dps on dungeons with blue gear.

sure he can. with others of his kind.