Spreadsheet with Hero counters

[Archonite]

Last part i'm a little confused. You say wouldn't be a hard counter, but you seem to be arguing for some kind of counter. I put d.va there because I dont think enough on that list helps against McCree atm.

I like the idea of Roadhog being a soft counter. You are right about his range, his heal is a nice benefit, and if you can react quick enough hook trumps charge and will cancel it. I also recently learned that Whole Hog push back is greater than Reinhardts charge speed, so its another annoying thing Reinhardt can not really deal with.

No Tracer can not blink through it. Unless there is a gap where she should blink, but that is not through.

I mean that i consider McCree to be a soft counter to the majority of non-tank heroes. However as a tank, i dont see D.Va having many issues with him, at least not enough to be considered a hard counter. And in the last part im saying that maybe the way i play McCree makes him weaker against D.Va, since i tend to not use his left mouse button to outrange her. I either avoid her or go in close for fan the hammer. So i dont have much experience with his normal shots to know wether they do significant damage to D.Va

Cheers about the info about Tracer and Mei wall, its hard to go into quick play to find out, and the practice range wont be useful either. Also ill definitely have to try hooking a charging reinhardt, sounds like fun

[Saverem]

Uhhh, yeah, that chart is wrong because it doesn't have Mei listed as a hard counter to every hero.

Mei is bae.

[DejaWu]

Uhhh, yeah, that chart is wrong because it doesn't have Mei listed as a hard counter to every hero.

Mei is bae.

Well I did win on Nepal with my friends as 6 meis once, its hard to lose when the enemy cant even get to the control point. You might be on to something

[zito]

Definitely on board with Winston and D.Va, it wasn't something I had thought about. Definitely want to add that! As for Tracer, Armor sucks but it isn't that bad. it does block 5 of tracers damage because she does less than 10 per-instance, but if you are getting in critical hits you hit her for 6 per pistol bullet. But more so, Tracer isnt a hard counter because she can out right kill D.Va, its because a High skill tracer should never die to a D.Va. Maybe she should only be a soft counter, but I dont see a world where a D.Va of equal skill to a Tracer (both being extremely high skill) Could consistently kill the Tracer. Rather, The D.Va would be forced to be retreating most of the time because of how quickly tracer can move, fire, and reset if it gets too close.

No. DVa health pool is almost entirely armor, because each shot does 6 damage close up armor will reduce it by half. So while Dva is in her mech everything tracer does besides her pulse bomb is reduced by 50% meaning it takes 50% longer to kill Dva. While Dva does not have to reload and can hit tracer very easily. Tracer will either die or retreat before Dva loses her mech for the fact that Dva does insane damage close up and then Dva has the ability to escape at will to heights Tracer can't reach.

If not a hard counter Dva is at least a soft counter to tracer.

[DejaWu]

No. DVa health pool is almost entirely armor, because each shot does 6 damage close up armor will reduce it by half. So while Dva is in her mech everything tracer does besides her pulse bomb is reduced by 50% meaning it takes 50% longer to kill Dva. While Dva does not have to reload and can hit tracer very easily. Tracer will either die or retreat before Dva loses her mech for the fact that Dva does insane damage close up and then Dva has the ability to escape at will to heights Tracer can't reach.

If not a hard counter Dva is at least a soft counter to tracer.

I agree with the soft counter here. It is hard for a Tracer to actually get through a D.Va's mech in a short period of time, but a good Tracer should never die. Because of defense matrix blocking Tracers ultimate, it definitely helps the case. As for the armor discussion, its stronger than you think. Its 50% damage reduction if its above 10 damage per instance. It actually blocks 5 damage if the instance is less than 10. So Tracer only hits for 1 damage per shot, for 40DPS. This is why I am for D.Va's head, or only try to get on a D.Va when there is already someone on her. My above though was mainly that D.Va wont be able to kill a Tracer 1v1, however I think your logic more so gets at in an actual high skill game of 6v6 D.Va can stall up a tracer with her team. Thanks for the discussion on this.

[Archonite]

http://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Armor

Since people seem to be arguing about armor, the page above has been updated two days ago, so i assume its reliable. To simplify, it reduces damage by 5 per attack, but never more than 50%.

[DejaWu]

http://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Armor

Since people seem to be arguing about armor, the page above has been updated two days ago, so i assume its reliable. To simplify, it reduces damage by 5 per attack, but never more than 50%.

Thank you for that. I guess I was referencing an older version of the oversheet. So Armor isn't quite as good as we thought against Tracer. 3 damage per bullet, she would be doing 120 dps (little more than 40). But i am still not sure this makes Tracer a soft counter to d.va.

Regardless thank you for this data!

[Kalmakk]

What would you guys consider a counter to Hanzo to be? Besides Tracer, being the main one. Just looking for things to be careful of that I might have overlooked in my time playing so far. He seems like a pretty well rounded hero though. Aside from his attacks not being hitscan, I can't really identify any outright weaknesses.

[DejaWu]

What would you guys consider a counter to Hanzo to be? Besides Tracer, being the main one. Just looking for things to be careful of that I might have overlooked in my time playing so far. He seems like a pretty well rounded hero though. Aside from his attacks not being hitscan, I can't really identify any outright weaknesses.

Just finished my McCree counter guide, and I have him there as a Soft counter. While McCree is great at flanking and picking off solo heroes, A good Hanzo will be map aware and watching for McCree. Between the Sonic and Scatter Arrow, Hanzo has good abilities to gain information about McCree's position and intended movements. Lastly, because of wall-climbing, Hanzo can exploit verticality to gain advantages in aim duels versus McCree, and never be in a position to get Flashbanged and fanned.

Some shorter thoughts, but I honestly feel like Hanzo and Widow counter the same heroes. I might be missing a specificity or two, but Snipers are absolutely critical for intelligence and picking heroes.

[Kalmakk]

Just finished my McCree counter guide, and I have him there as a Soft counter. While McCree is great at flanking and picking off solo heroes, A good Hanzo will be map aware and watching for McCree. Between the Sonic and Scatter Arrow, Hanzo has good abilities to gain information about McCree's position and intended movements. Lastly, because of wall-climbing, Hanzo can exploit verticality to gain advantages in aim duels versus McCree, and never be in a position to get Flashbanged and fanned.

Some shorter thoughts, but I honestly feel like Hanzo and Widow counter the same heroes. I might be missing a specificity or two, but Snipers are absolutely critical for intelligence and picking heroes.

Good to know about McCree, hadn't really considered him a problem yet. Guess I haven't encountered many good ones yet?

As for snipers as a role, I think that overall Widowmaker and Hanzo are similar, but have different effects on the opposing team, in terms of what it forces them to do to counter it.
Widowmaker, in my observation, has a very distinct suppressive effect on opposing teams. Most organised groups will specifically take detours or alleys to avoid a Widowmaker, especially in Ulti mode. This can be used as an advantage to trap people in confined spaces they ordinarily wouldn't be in.
Hanzo doesn't have that same suppressive effect, it seems. Because his shots are less telegraphed and less obvious, it's harder to outright avoid his field of fire, especially as he's often on the move.
Widowmaker is the Eye of Sauron. Hanzo is more like a marksman Predator.

[DejaWu]

Good to know about McCree, hadn't really considered him a problem yet. Guess I haven't encountered many good ones yet?

Yeah McCree in good hands is absolutely terrifying. For the guide I found a Gif of one solo killing Bastion in tank mode, killing another hero, then landing a 3 man dead-eye for PoTG.

As for snipers as a role, I think that overall Widowmaker and Hanzo are similar, but have different effects on the opposing team, in terms of what it forces them to do to counter it.
Widowmaker, in my observation, has a very distinct suppressive effect on opposing teams. Most organised groups will specifically take detours or alleys to avoid a Widowmaker, especially in Ulti mode. This can be used as an advantage to trap people in confined spaces they ordinarily wouldn't be in.
Hanzo doesn't have that same suppressive effect, it seems. Because his shots are less telegraphed and less obvious, it's harder to outright avoid his field of fire, especially as he's often on the move.
Widowmaker is the Eye of Sauron. Hanzo is more like a marksman Predator.

I really like this. I think your points really helped with the distinction. I really appreciate this!

[Eapoe]

What would you guys consider a counter to Hanzo to be? Besides Tracer, being the main one. Just looking for things to be careful of that I might have overlooked in my time playing so far. He seems like a pretty well rounded hero though. Aside from his attacks not being hitscan, I can't really identify any outright weaknesses.

Reaper can be a soft counter with his teleport. Unless the person playing Hanzo knows the exact animation for Reaper, a mistimed arrow puts him at a huge disadvantage, giving him the choice to die or run away, a lot of times right into another enemy player. A good Pharah possibly also just from still being able to get above him, and most ledges extremely high up have smaller platforms to move back and forth on and the small blast radius will still do some damage.

[Anaralah]

Only heroes that give hard time to Mccree are Reaper, Genji and Mei. Those matchups depend on if Mccree can force them to use their immunities without using his flashbang. If he uses stun first, they can pop immunities mid hammer as the stun breaks the moment you take any damage after that point he has a disadvantage against all three.

This may be done on tracer too but her 150 hp makes it harder to pull especially with latency and netcode issues.

[Flame6]

LoL roadhog counter to Reaper? I dont think so.

Reaper eats roadhog. Even if Roadhog grips him, Reaper has to much HP to one shot. Roadhog has a Huge model and gets eaten alive by reaper.

Reaper counters the big tanks because of their huge model and lack of range.

[DejaWu]

Only heroes that give hard time to Mccree are Reaper, Genji and Mei. Those matchups depend on if Mccree can force them to use their immunities without using his flashbang. If he uses stun first, they can pop immunities mid hammer as the stun breaks the moment you take any damage after that point he has a disadvantage against all three.

This may be done on tracer too but her 150 hp makes it harder to pull especially with latency and netcode issues.

I agree here. I had a lot of trouble thinking about counters to McCree in my guide. Curious if you think the other heroes I mention are useful. Ultimately, while a few heroes do help against McCree its more about how you play against him as a team, and how you shut down the parts of the map that he needs to operate in to be successful. So more so than heroes beating McCree, its groups of heroes or teams beating him. This is why I came to Soldier as probably the only "hard counter" than Mei. No other Hero, assuming the player has good map sense of course, can suppress a McCree at distance safely and reliably like Soldier.

[Anaralah]

Soldier i think is too easy to 1 vs 1 with Mccree at close range, he literally has no option, he wont even make mccree use combat roll, even if we assume encounters between them will be at close range %50 of the time (which in my opinion will be closer to %65), loosing half your encounters by default and not winning other half easily as Mccree can put up a good fight at medium range and gets close to even at long range is not a good situation.

I forgot to mention snipers on my post but i think widow is harder to play against compared to hanzo, they are terrfying at distance that is given, i find it harder to catch widows compared to hanzo, both of them will hear you coming at one point so they will try to move up to somewhere you cant reach (though hanzo might try scattering depending on your approaching position) but grapple does it faster and safer compared to hanzos wall climbing, i have cought too many hanzos mid climb and hammered them to death though in the long run hanzo can kite you around indefinately while widow is cooldown limited, if map has a position that is only approacable from a single direction widow is never gonna get cought as he will detect you with the mine trap from miles away, as i said i find widows slightly harder to deal with but it might be personal preferences as the difference is really small.

Now Zarya is weird, one of my least played heroes, so i am very noob facing her so i find myself usually emptying my clip on her shield out of instinct which causes buttload of problems, but in theory a properly executed engagement should favor mccree as after waiting for shield to drop (it doesnt last very long) pulling a stun double hammer combo should net the kill, but if you luck into (or unluck i should say) already empowered Zarya it might get ugly

[DejaWu]

Soldier i think is too easy to 1 vs 1 with Mccree at close range, he literally has no option, he wont even make mccree use combat roll, even if we assume encounters between them will be at close range %50 of the time (which in my opinion will be closer to %65), loosing half your encounters by default and not winning other half easily as Mccree can put up a good fight at medium range and gets close to even at long range is not a good situation.

I forgot to mention snipers on my post but i think widow is harder to play against compared to hanzo, they are terrfying at distance that is given, i find it harder to catch widows compared to hanzo, both of them will hear you coming at one point so they will try to move up to somewhere you cant reach (though hanzo might try scattering depending on your approaching position) but grapple does it faster and safer compared to hanzos wall climbing, i have cought too many hanzos mid climb and hammered them to death though in the long run hanzo can kite you around indefinately while widow is cooldown limited, if map has a position that is only approacable from a single direction widow is never gonna get cought as he will detect you with the mine trap from miles away, as i said i find widows slightly harder to deal with but it might be personal preferences as the difference is really small.

Now Zarya is weird, one of my least played heroes, so i am very noob facing her so i find myself usually emptying my clip on her shield out of instinct which causes buttload of problems, but in theory a properly executed engagement should favor mccree as after waiting for shield to drop (it doesnt last very long) pulling a stun double hammer combo should net the kill, but if you luck into (or unluck i should say) already empowered Zarya it might get ugly

As far as the 1 v 1 part, I agree. But that is not the point of picking Soldier to counter him. Rather to prevent him from flanking and Isolating. Assuming the Soldier player is equal skill to the McCree, he would never let him get close. At medium range, Biotic field heals faster than the damage McCree does after distance drop, and again sprint allows him to escape quickly. I really want to echo here I agree if you were in a small room in a 1v1 you should lose, but a Good soldier should never let that happen.

As for Hanzo Widow, assuming Hanzo is skilled with the hero, and has good map sense would you still feel like Hanzo could negate McCrees impact? I get the feeling from the your response you are unsure.

Fair enough, I have played her a lot and she can definitely do what you are saying. I really think she shines because of Barrier blocking flashbang's stun.

Lastly, I want to say again I really think beating McCree is not through 1v1's. You are right throughout your points that he is devastating in any 1v1, that is why in my Guide i wanted to focus on working pairs or preventing him from being able to get in close quarters for those 1v1s. Thanks so much for this feedback!

[Anaralah]

i guess in a coordinated game your point might be true for soldier, but you would also need to include junkrat for that role as he also stands with the backline and can respond to an imminent flanking by mccree, this i think is one of the weaknesses of Mccree, unlike other flankers who wants to reach backline he has to do it hard way by mowing through other heroes without being able to bypass them, this takes surprise factor almost out of the equation when dealing with a team with good communication

hanzo or widow should never be caught by mccree in a team q game to be honest, what i described was my own experiences entirely of soloq, widow can make a mistake and still get away with it easier compared to hanzo, they are both hell to deal with especially on maps with too many open spaces like the first half of watchpoint gibraltar for example

[Kalmakk]

i guess in a coordinated game your point might be true for soldier, but you would also need to include junkrat for that role as he also stands with the backline and can respond to an imminent flanking by mccree, this i think is one of the weaknesses of Mccree, unlike other flankers who wants to reach backline he has to do it hard way by mowing through other heroes without being able to bypass them, this takes surprise factor almost out of the equation when dealing with a team with good communication

hanzo or widow should never be caught by mccree in a team q game to be honest, what i described was my own experiences entirely of soloq, widow can make a mistake and still get away with it easier compared to hanzo, they are both hell to deal with especially on maps with too many open spaces like the first half of watchpoint gibraltar for example

I feel like that might be a big part of the distinction, actually. The way people play snipers on quick pubs is drastically different to how an organised team sniper would. No sane sniper stays in one static location after more than a couple shots, that's just begging to be punished for being greedy and getting killed unnecessarily (by a McCree). A good Widowmaker and Hanzo will move, constantly, so as soon as a McCree reaches their old point they are (optimally) in a new sniper position that overlooks their old one, to kill McCree there, and keep the opposing team guessing.

I think Widowmaker has an advantage overall when it comes to relocating. The grapple rope is just so damn handy. I've actually seen people use it as a sling shot to get to vantage points beyond where they pulled themselves to, it's pretty sick. The downside is that as soon as Widowmaker makes a shot everyone knows where it came from. That's Hanzo's advantage, he can make rapid shots that are virtually silent and unseen, so he gets a wider window for greed before moving.

Sometimes as a sniper you don't actually want to land kill shots, just wounds, for your team to mop up. If you land a finishing blow, you reveal yourself on their kill feed. I try and track 2 killing blows (3 if I'm mowing people down), then I move. More than that, and people just send hit squads after you.

[Frozen Death Knight]

It is pretty sad how few Heroes D.va counters, especially hard counters. Also, Winston should be a hard counter to Hanzo. He is the best tank at chasing him and Hanzo's arrows just are not powerful enough to get through Winston's shield, so any good Winston will be chasing those Hanzos and Widowmakers when given the chance.

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What would you guys consider a counter to Hanzo to be? Besides Tracer, being the main one. Just looking for things to be careful of that I might have overlooked in my time playing so far. He seems like a pretty well rounded hero though. Aside from his attacks not being hitscan, I can't really identify any outright weaknesses.

Winston. Just jump past the entire enemy frontline and put down a shield. Then the fun begins. You just chase Hanzo and use your shield to avoid his arrows that can not kill the shield on their own. Even if he runs Winston's leap cooldown is so low that Hanzo will have a really hard time to escape. Not to mention that Winston's ultimate makes sniper aiming next to impossible and you will likely kill any of the squishies in a couple of swings.

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Reaper eats roadhog. Even if Roadhog grips him, Reaper has to much HP to one shot. Roadhog has a Huge model and gets eaten alive by reaper.

Reaper counters the big tanks because of their huge model and lack of range.

The one reason you pick Roadhog when the enemy has Reaper on their team is to hook the ultimates. A great Roadhog will be keeping an eye out for Reapers and Pharahs to stop them from wiping your team. Reaper may have a lot of health, but Roadhog can still 2 shot him at full health if you land your hook at the right time. If Reaper has less than full health, you will likely one shot him.