Possibility of the removal of Tank role in future

[Raiju]

In games like Tabletop D&D, the concept of "Aggro" or "Tanks" don't exist. If the mage is almost dead and is bleeding, the enemy will attack the mage.

No, the enemy will attack the fighter because the fighter should be positioned to not allow people to easily hit the mage without provoking attacks, aka tanking.

[Nephrahim]

Recent D&D has also literally given classes like fighters a taunt function, where they force an enemy to attack them (Or at least take a severe penalty if the enemy chooses to attack another player.)

Though you could argue very easily that's them taking ideas back from MMOs like WoW.

[Zantos]

I do get what you saying but those are all previous content. Those encounters will be soloable in Legion and even now I solo them in HC. And yes I know I am an extremely overgeared Blood, but still this shows how relevant those encounters are.

You seem to be a reasonable guy, help me out, what can be done to adress this tanking issue.

Role is very binary either you succeed and any extra is not that relevant or you fail horrendeously and be bashed. Having a really strong damage tank vs weak results on huge aggro issues which I happen to face alot. You want to be a good one but literally you are as strong as your partner. Role has almost no sense of accomplishment, even with WoD healers are taking care of everything, tank just manages their strong active mitigation.

Legion promises low amount of absorbs and less burst damage from bosses, now that can work only if tanks can dive into their minigame and be occupied with that, which is only satisfaction a player can get from their character. I am not a complexity fanboy, having a very simple but meaningful rotation that works as intended is above everything else to me. But I fear I will end up with asking healers to cut the healing a bit on me so I can stop overhealing with my Death Strike despite my despereate try to get a good one with all the delay etc I can without throwing away resources.

Those are previous encounters, but going forward, those types of mechanics wont be able to be added. Some of the issues are very serious and are huge balance issues, like the surviveability of every dps class / spec needing to be reworked. That will have PvP effects as well since suddenly, clothies will have defensive cds and be less squishy.

I've never had aggro issues personally, but a bad tank wont be able to hold aggro. Typically the only time aggro is a problem is when its the very start and a dps gets off a large string of crits. I have been in many situations where I had to cover up for my partners slack. Its not easy, but plenty manageable.

There is a lot for a tank to do in WoD, but that is changing in legion. From the videos / reviews I have seen, not even surviving is within our control all that much anymore. There really isn;t a whole lot they can do to just completely remove the tank role without having a resounding effecting on every other class and role. The entire way raids function would drastically change for both dps and healers. PvP would have to be reworked as well. Those who enjoy tanking would have to either find another roll they enjoy or quit.

I'm not saying no tanks could work, its just that ir really can't in WoW. They are so ingrained into the very core of the game that it just isn't realistically possible to remove them.

[Kantoro]

Having played the clusterfuck that is dungeons in GW2, this is the worst idea I've seen this year, possibly ever.

[Bosen]

No. The Tank/Heals/DPS aspect of the MMORPG genre should stay in WoW. It's a classic dynamic.

[judgementofantonidas]

We need a new role "Support" half healer and half dps and half tank. Something like a class fantasy of Druid but not "press bear form, press taunt one boss swing died" But with crit immunity ( defcap ) bear form. So a class being able to do everything in same gear. Or a Spec being able to do everything but being not amazing at everything. And this Support class would be needed simply to fill different roles in different encounters. And Change 5 mans to 6 mans with bosses that require and offtank mechanic, more healing. This Support class would be simply a high skillcap class.

We had this before in form of Warlock, Warlock could tank some bosses and provde healthstones to people to heal. I know it is not as good example as Wotlk Druid in Feral that could be a great tanks and good dps in same gear spec. But this would be the aim. We would have a requirement for raids to have Support classes and bosses even for "flex groups normal/heroic" to require in some encounters 3-4 tanks or more healing etc.

What do you think guys ? Moving from 5 to 6 mans would be big, and changes in classes to become support would be big.

- Paladin could convert Prot into Support class or get a 4 spec
- Warlock could have Demonology as Support spec with healing by transfering life from deamons and tanking around micromanaging daemon
- Druid by having froms etc

And this could be a choice, switch. You could go full prot and be a real tank as Paladin or go Support and be jack-of-all-trades support class.

Just think about how many options this would open for encounters. Also leveling as support would be easier than healer and it could provide a healer for leveling content for the dungeon groups.

we already have support classes. they are called dps.

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Did he just say the most op class of tank is the underdog? When have dk's ever been the underdog? The hero class the underdog? Ok.

they aren't. neither have they ever been the hardest to play. you can literally one button tank with them.

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Here I am thinking the opposite: tanking makes no sense to me and healing makes perfect sense. Are we to believe a tank can hold up his shield and "block" a swing from a dragon like Onyxia? Or from Mythic Garrosh? or Archimonde? Avoiding, sure that makes sense. But parrying? Blocking? Nonsense IMO.

In a world with magic, healing makes sense. You get hit and you can be mended with magical whatever. Bandages make no sense, but potions do. Your idea of what healers are is pretty narrow, you have to admit.

IMO, games like GW2 have it closer to reality where there are defensive players and small heals, but basically everyone is a DPS.

Sure. Garrosh is nothing but a bloated orc. Archimonde is only made larger so you can see him when you have 30 people putting the beat down on him. Even the claws of a dragon like onyxia could be, yes, deflected or blocked. The breath not so much. THAT is where heals should come in.

[Uko]

Other mmos have tried removing the trinity all it leads to is fights devolving to ping pong kite fests where the mobs either die super quick or bounce between the people. It doesnt enrich the combat experience it heavily dumbs it down because without tank specs everyone becomes one. It is not fun for anyone in other words.

[judgementofantonidas]

Remove the healer role too then

sure. lower boss and raid damage to where if you didn't do things right you would all die over the course of the 5-10 minutes you are fighting, not in under 3 seconds to a one shot mechanic or a boss that is nothing more than an overweight orc that is capable of destroying a fully plate armored foe in one blow.............

[Alydael]

Blizzard are trying to re-think tanking at the moment that's obvious on alpha. I personally think that they're off the mark currently, and alpha tanking is really not fun for the most part. It's just not engaging from a play style perspective.

I don't think removing tanks is any kind of answer. The game needs more stuff added in not taken out. They'll continue to re-think this i'm sure, but because they've not done a good job on tanking in Legion thus far; doesn't mean a knee-jerk reaction like scrapping the role is warranted.

They should return to the early MOP AM model. I know Blizz likes to change things, but sometimes: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

[Deleted]

All your arguments became invalid for all eternity when you said that DK was the hardest class to tank on.

[Leih]

Having played the clusterfuck that is dungeons in GW2, this is the worst idea I've seen this year, possibly ever.

Agreed with this guy.

Don't fuck with the roles. Not everyone wants to pew pew DPS. I can't stand games where I have no option to do something other than deal damage, and the group play is always messy.

[Gen4Glock21]

I have no idea how tanks play in Legion but in the current game I can run in with any tank and pull mobs from everywhere and survive with virtually no help from a healer. I can not do that with a pure dps or healer. To me it seems like you are butt hurt because you might not be able to faceroll you way through leveling and dungeons anymore and will require assistance from a healer now. Like someone else said if anything I would like to see more tanks in a raid, like in BC.

[judgementofantonidas]

Only needing 2 tanks in a and rarely more than 3-4 healers yet 460460 dps makes things really awkward imo. I think it would be really annoying to find a guild or raid group as a tank.

we just had to start gearing a completely new monk tank because our warrior tank decided to server transfer and go play with his freinds who cannot clear normal.................


tank spots exist.

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Fuck off. Tanking is a fun and engaging role. If it goes, then I go.

here here. what are all the dps that whine about tanks actually being a fun role to play going to do when they are forced to step up and do it? anyone know melee dps that although they want to overburden your raid group by refusing to play classes that by design are more welcome in numbers and yet when asked to also work on their tank or healer spec, "nope"?

sure. a lot of dps like to whine about tanks. but when tanking is no longer fun and they lose any more the QQ river will only deepen and widen.

[cFortyfive]

I haven't played a somewhat similar game without a tank role that wasn't retarded as fuck.

[clevin]

If you can be mended with magical whatever, why stop there? Why even allow wounds to happen? Why not magically make all baddies disappear and conjure everlasting world piece? Because, magic is apparently wishful thinking and make believe made possible. Because it's

✲´*。.❄¨¯`* magic ✲。❄。*。¨¯`*✲.

My idea of what healers are might be "narrow", but this idea of magic is that of a five-year-old. It's like, let's make impossible things happen! Let's make it 7 sundays in a row so I don't have to go to kindergarden.

Whatever. That's totally uninteresting. Who cares about what seems plausible to players fantasy-wise - people have all kinds of crappy ideas anyway. I'm talking about actual participation in the game. You got two roles that participate in the game and one that strives to STAY OUT of the game and stare at life bars instead. No wonder few people wanna do it. It's a role that keeps you disengaged from the game and expects you to do something completely different from what you've been doing while leveling up.

You're complaining about magic... in a fantasy world where it obviously exists? Go outside. You need fresh air.

[judgementofantonidas]

You are right when we think with todays meta in terms of perspective. But without a tank, the downsides can breed new possibilities to create new and unique mechanics. When boss positioning is out of player control, it can become a new mechanic to deal with since players will always have to follow bosses positioning. Even with minimum mechanics it will create more moments for a player more than a DPS check. That is what coming to my mind with 5 min thinking. Imagine what could developers use with that system..

sure. that will be hella fun for all the melee dps when they have to chase a boss all over the room as it decides to randomly agro on every hunter that won't stack anywhere near the group.

[Sastank]

Literally never going to happen but you can ask/complain/wish for it I guess lol it's your opinion and you're allowed to have them.

[Deleted]

Here I am thinking the opposite: tanking makes no sense to me and healing makes perfect sense. Are we to believe a tank can hold up his shield and "block" a swing from a dragon like Onyxia? Or from Mythic Garrosh? or Archimonde? Avoiding, sure that makes sense. But parrying? Blocking? Nonsense IMO.

Ofc they do thats why they are tanks with HUGE SHIELDS.
And please are you really trying to tacle this point by LOGIC in a FANTASY WORLD?

[judgementofantonidas]

That's why I'm saying they have to find a middle ground. Tanks don't need to be doing massive dps, but they do need a rotation with cd's that help. Why not just keep all their cd's but make them less powerful. That way the tanks still have things to do other than getting hit and soak dmg, but also make it so healers are still needed to heal them. Drop the absorb/block/dodge percentage of cd's so that they still are better than having none at all but aren't so OP that they negate the need for healers. Or bring back stuff like Sunder... it gives the tanks something to add to their rotation and debuffs the target to drop its armor and lower the dmg it puts out.

yes yes. "allow them to feel busy and important". less powerful is not fun for anyone.

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Dude. In a world with magic, being able to block Onyxia with a shield is perfectly rational. You can't just say "blocking an attack that seems unavoidable is nonsense" then go right around in the literal next sentence with the words "in a world with magic."

In a world with magic I'm a 18 foot tall anthropomorphic wolf with white fur, horns growing out the back of my head, feathered wings sprouting from my back and plates running across my chest. Magic is limitless and isn't bound to the realm of reality. Bitching about something making sense in a world of magic is a pointless redundancy.

yeah. have to admit. in a world where warriors can go spinning around with a seven foot, 45 pound weapon in each hand that does kind of make blocking a dragon a bit more believable.

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Tanking is in the game as a work around GOOD AI.

In games like Tabletop D&D, the concept of "Aggro" or "Tanks" don't exist. If the mage is almost dead and is bleeding, the enemy will attack the mage.

got news for you. E Gary Gygax is not producing wow.

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I have no idea how tanks play in Legion but in the current game I can run in with any tank and pull mobs from everywhere and survive with virtually no help from a healer. I can not do that with a pure dps or healer. To me it seems like you are butt hurt because you might not be able to faceroll you way through leveling and dungeons anymore and will require assistance from a healer now. Like someone else said if anything I would like to see more tanks in a raid, like in BC.

that is only in 5 mans, which are not really relevant content where a healer OR a tank should strictly be need.

[Stormspellz]

Scenarios was test in this theory, while I personally enjoyed them and thought they had great potential, it was undeveloped and generally unliked by the community