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  1. #201
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florena Emberlin View Post
    More might have come later but it started with a handful and they haven't shown to even have as large a presence as the silver covnenant, speaking strictly of Alliance and Horde aligned pandaren. The fact that there are a lot of neutral Pandaren means nothing. The ones that are PART OF THE PLAYABLE Pandaren are incredibly tiny. It doesn't matter if there are a bunch that are part of other factions.

    There are a host of other reasons why high elves on the alliance aren't feasible and shouldn't be added. Including the fact they'd have little story not related to blood elves, are just blood elves with blue eyes and slightly paler skin and more. But if blizzard could give us playable pandaren where the actual PLAYABLE faction of them of them is so tiny there's no reason that surviving high elves couldn't band together to form a camp bigger than what the Tushui have in Stormwind and TImeless Isle.

    As I said above however, there are plenty of reasons why High Elves are not and should not be made playable on the Alliance. I just don't happen to buy into the population argument specifically anymore.
    The real problem (in regards of this specific matter, not in general) is more the fact that High Elves aren't a "people" to begin with, they're divided and lack unity and leadership. This, coupled with their tiny population (as a whole, not just those who are part of the Alliance) makes them further undesiderable as playable race as they lack the basis to be relevant to begin with.

    The Pandaren who joined Horde and Alliance may have been a few, but they had tons of background and story behind, let alone a whole continent of people with a characteristic culture serving as main theme for a whole expansion.

    The High Elves' background is...well, the Blood Elves and Quel'thalas. I don't think I need to add anything else to point out how ridiculous this is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    Id be happy for elves to split into high and blood, one for horde and one for allies. Blood elves being the remnants of silvermoon and those betrayed by garithos and the ones that followed kaelthas, the high elves being the ones who resided with other parts of the alliance army and fled with kaina to kalimdor.

    They arent exactly the most exclusive race, alliance already have high elves among their ranks, lor'themar was in talks about rejoining the alliance, so there must be a portion of elves still willing to go back, they are by far the most popular race in the game.

    I really wouldnt mind seeing alliance get to play them, even if they were just silvermoon outcasts or remnants of high elves left. I mean, if the entire population of horde goblins could fit on a ship and they are a playable race, i dont see why the high elves cant be playable.

    This isnt even because im alliance and just want to play pwetty elves, its because i want to kill them as horde. its because it fits lore wise, its because there are deep ties between that race and faction that many remember and hold darely, its because it would make the story interesting and now that pandas are on both factions there is precedent for dual faction races.

    Of course the horde need something in return, that could just be ogres since they are a classic horde race the same as high elves are for alliance, and still exist in the horde. Again, not because i want ogres, i dont like them, thier defining traits are being fat and stupid, but i dont have a problem with seeing them in the horde

    Basically id love the horde population to skew more in the direction of traditional horde races, trolls, goblins, orcs, ogres, as opposed to the 50% elf population that they have at the moment, if bleeding some off onto the alliance makes the horde feel more like the horde, then im game!


    You know it!

  3. #203
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrok View Post


    You know it!
    It's like you're stuck in Pre purge of Dalaran, Quelthalas has no need or want to even think of Going neutral. No amount of bringing up old lore and disregarding current events changes that.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    The real problem (in regards of this specific matter, not in general) is more the fact that High Elves aren't a "people" to begin with, they're divided and lack unity and leadership. This, coupled with their tiny population (as a whole, not just those who are part of the Alliance) makes them further undesiderable as playable race as they lack the basis to be relevant to begin with.

    The Pandaren who joined Horde and Alliance may have been a few, but they had tons of background and story behind, let alone a whole continent of people with a characteristic culture serving as main theme for a whole expansion.

    The High Elves' background is...well, the Blood Elves and Quel'thalas. I don't think I need to add anything else to point out how ridiculous this is.
    The bulk of the High Elves that are aligned with the Alliance are members of the Silver Covenant -- a group of masterfully skilled individuals, all of whom seem to support maintaining traditional friendships/allegiances and whom display what many would call an extreme loyalty to their leader, Vereesa Windrunner. They've got a more-or-less unified goal and a leader who has the unanimous support of the collective, I'd hardly call that being "divided".

    No, what HE's are is uprooted. Their former homeland, and the people residing there, seem to become more and more foreign to them the longer they're away. The reason people cling to this nonsense of "HE's are just BE's with blue eyes!" or "HE history is BE history", is largely because the HE's haven't been given much focus in the story (owing to, shocker, their unplayability).

    IIRC, the High Elves have been tentatively looking for a new place to make a new home in for like a decade... a scenario wherein the HE's create a new home for themselves isn't likely to occur in-game, unless they're made playable. Then, immediately, their story directly pivots away from anything remotely involving the Blood Elves.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Ra View Post
    The Lord of the Rings was lame.
    Then why you like High elves?

    on a serious note.. Nightborne offer lore of 10k years which never seen before? were high elves bring uhm.. blue eyes..

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Then why you like High elves?

    on a serious note.. Nightborne offer lore of 10k years which never seen before? were high elves bring uhm.. blue eyes..
    Don't know. Why do people like Cairne, despite the fact that he doesn't do anything important in the Lore and didn't had much personality?
    Why do people like Nathanos Blightcaller, despite the fact that most of you probably never did his quest and that he did nothing since Cata?That's Warcraft, people like things without reason here. And like I said, I don't need them. I would prefer better Worgen Models and a Human Face that doesn't look like he's in his 40s over playable High Elves. I just don't think the Horde should get the High Elves that are already in the Alliance without losing something and that's not too harsh. The Alliance loses something all the time without gaining something else.

  7. #207
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    I don't get the argument of "Their isn't enough of them to be reasonable!" yet..

    -Draenei have absolutely tiny numbers that originally escaped from Argus and had even more slaughtered on Draenor and have had even more die since landing on Azeroth.
    -Goblins you play are part of a small Cartel that's entire Island exploded and you play as one of the few survivors of the Lost Isles.
    -Player controlled Pandaren are only the ones that live on the Turtle.
    -Worgen are the few Gilneans that escaped both the Cataclsym, the Worgen Curse AND the destruction of Gilneas and Silverpine via the Forsaken.

    Using population as an excuse is inane.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jack Flash View Post
    I don't get the argument of "Their isn't enough of them to be reasonable!" yet..

    -Draenei have absolutely tiny numbers that originally escaped from Argus and had even more slaughtered on Draenor and have had even more die since landing on Azeroth.
    -Goblins you play are part of a small Cartel that's entire Island exploded and you play as one of the few survivors of the Lost Isles.
    -Player controlled Pandaren are only the ones that live on the Turtle.
    -Worgen are the few Gilneans that escaped both the Cataclsym, the Worgen Curse AND the destruction of Gilneas and Silverpine via the Forsaken.

    Using population as an excuse is inane.

  9. #209
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    if anything the game needs, its deep character customization, i hate that we all have the same body type and highet

    and to be honest the face/hair/faicalhair customization is really few

    plus, scars, tattoos and piercings.

    sometimes i want to play a small buffed orc that is fast and agile, and sometimes i want to play 7 feet tall human with badass beard and tattoos.

    having bloodelves with different eye color on different side and be called highelves just because different eyes, is kinda meh.

  10. #210
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Ra View Post
    I just don't think the Horde should get the High Elves that are already in the Alliance without losing something and that's not too harsh. The Alliance loses something all the time without gaining something else.
    What do you think the Blood Elves are? THEY ARE THE HIGH ELVES THAT USED TO BE IN THE ALLIANCE. That ship sailed ten years ago. You talk as if the High Elves of the silver covenant are a different race entirely. They aren't...no more than the Defias Brotherhood are a different race from the Humans of Stormwind.

    If you think that the Horde getting High Elves would be unfair, you are too late because it happened. Just deal with it, deal with the disappointment that the Horde lost nothing as a result and move on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jack Flash View Post
    I don't get the argument of "Their isn't enough of them to be reasonable!" yet..

    -Draenei have absolutely tiny numbers that originally escaped from Argus and had even more slaughtered on Draenor and have had even more die since landing on Azeroth.
    -Goblins you play are part of a small Cartel that's entire Island exploded and you play as one of the few survivors of the Lost Isles.
    -Player controlled Pandaren are only the ones that live on the Turtle.
    -Worgen are the few Gilneans that escaped both the Cataclsym, the Worgen Curse AND the destruction of Gilneas and Silverpine via the Forsaken.

    Using population as an excuse is inane.
    The reason is that the single time Blizzard ever commentated on the issue of playable High Elves, THEY cited the High Elf population as the reason it wasn't going to happen.

    "There are still some High Elves in the land, but the majority of those once known as the Quel'dorei no longer fit the bill of "High Elf".
    Your comparison with Gnomeregan is a logical conclusion to draw, but incorrect. The Gnomes managed to evacuate a good percentage of their people from their home as it was corrupted from within. Ironforge was close by; they were able to save a good number of their people. Naturally they were indebted to the Dwarves and, by extension, the Alliance, so they fight for their cause.
    The High Elves had less of a chance to flee, as they were surrounded by the vast bulk of the Scourge army as they pressed in and destroyed the Sunwell. Still, some survived, certainly enough to show a presence, right?
    And so they did after the destruction of Quel'thalas, fighting for the Alliance, but with the destruction of the Sunwell they found an ever-increasing need, an addiction, for magical power. The remaining Elves were placed under the command of a man named Garithos, who was grossly intolerant of other races and drove the Elves into near-suicidal situations in the hopes they would no longer be his problem.
    These remnants of the High Elves -- named Blood Elves in remembrance of their people -- were not stupid, and the commands from their "Alliance" became more and more ludicrous. It was only through the help of the Naga that they were able to survive these grim tasks; time and again, they appeared to aid Prince Kael'thas and his men. The Blood Elves came to realize they could no longer trust in the Alliance. When the offer was extended to join the Naga in service of Illidan Stormrage -- and perhaps find a cure to their addiction to magic -- Kael took it, leaving the Alliance behind.
    In short, High Elves are not playable because there are very few true "High Elves" left -- far less so than Gnomes. While there are Blood Elves in much larger supply, they are busy with other pursuits alongside Illidan. You'd certainly not see them fighting side by side with the Alliance anytime soon, not after such betrayal.
    "

    Caydiem made that post on the 25th September 2005, several months before the reveal of the then in development Burning Crusade which added Blood Elves to the Horde. And this post was made before the destruction of Theramore and the loss of some lodges.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2016-05-12 at 09:53 AM.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    What do you think the Blood Elves are? THEY ARE THE HIGH ELVES THAT USED TO BE IN THE ALLIANCE. That ship sailed ten years ago. You talk as if the High Elves of the silver covenant are a different race entirely. They aren't...no more than the Defias Brotherhood are a different race from the Humans of Stormwind.

    If you think that the Horde getting High Elves would be unfair, you are too late because it happened. Just deal with it, deal with the disappointment that the Horde lost nothing as a result and move on.
    Yeah, but the Alliance has High Elven Members. And it's not like every Horde Territory didn't felt like Blizz had to watch not to make the Horde players angry while writting the Stories.

  12. #212
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    the 'grand betrayal' of garithos is a pathetic excuse to say the least. garithos was just one man. ONE
    you can't blame the entire alliance for the actions of ONE man especially at that time when the alliance was in tatters.
    garrosh was a lot worse than garithos and yet the blood elves didn't blame the horde for garrosh's actions. they were fine with the other members.

    the alliance doesn't have a problem with the high elves or blood elves. they accept high elves members in their ranks in so many various locations and that proves my point. even what jaina's actions don't represent the entire alliance. varian didn't agree with her actions. if theres anyone to blame is jaina alone and the kirin tor.
    please let's agree that the only pure reason the blood elves are horde members is because they are a pretty race that the horde was in dire need back then to boost their numbers.

  13. #213
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    Don't forget that the Orcs rampaged in Quel'thalas quite a bit in second war.

  14. #214
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    High Elves. The blood elf rip-off. No thanks.

    I hate it that they chose to retcon the fact that all high elves were killed by Arthas the Lich King.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    High Elves. The blood elf rip-off. No thanks.

    I hate it that they chose to retcon the fact that all high elves were killed by Arthas the Lich King.
    I would have prefered a Scenario Alexandros Mograine and the Scarlet Crusade as Human Scenario for TFT too.

  16. #216
    Warchief Lupinemancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHMRulez1 View Post
    I don't think that populance is the problem. Because after all the population of a race is just a plot device that Blizzard uses sometimes. The real problem is that they will still be just a reskin of Blood Elves gameplay wise.
    And that is a problem why?
    If that is the logic then what exactly is the model difference between the two Pandaren races?

  17. #217
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaikal21 View Post
    the 'grand betrayal' of garithos is a pathetic excuse to say the least. garithos was just one man. ONE
    you can't blame the entire alliance for the actions of ONE man especially at that time when the alliance was in tatters.
    garrosh was a lot worse than garithos and yet the blood elves didn't blame the horde for garrosh's actions. they were fine with the other members.

    the alliance doesn't have a problem with the high elves or blood elves. they accept high elves members in their ranks in so many various locations and that proves my point. even what jaina's actions don't represent the entire alliance. varian didn't agree with her actions. if theres anyone to blame is jaina alone and the kirin tor.
    please let's agree that the only pure reason the blood elves are horde members is because they are a pretty race that the horde was in dire need back then to boost their numbers.
    Considering the alliance once again, sent spies and a hostile fighting force to blood elf lands while the horde was the only faction that helped them survive..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenji87 View Post
    And that is a problem why?
    If that is the logic then what exactly is the model difference between the two Pandaren races?
    Because blizzard didn't want to deny anyone pandare. They obviously don't have the same issue with blood elves, they obviously don't give a shit about high elves, they care about blood elves
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  18. #218
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyersing View Post
    The bulk of the High Elves that are aligned with the Alliance are members of the Silver Covenant -- a group of masterfully skilled individuals, all of whom seem to support maintaining traditional friendships/allegiances and whom display what many would call an extreme loyalty to their leader, Vereesa Windrunner. They've got a more-or-less unified goal and a leader who has the unanimous support of the collective, I'd hardly call that being "divided".
    That's a nice narrative, but I doubt there's any source attached to it. And even then, it still doesn't disprove the fact that High Elves has no unity as a whole. Here's the key words:

    The bulk of the High Elves that are aligned with the Alliance are members of the Silver Covenant
    It doesn't say that the bulk of the existing High Elves are aligned with the Alliance. In fact, that very specification reminds us the existence of High Elves outside of the Alliance, despite the fact that High Elves has strikingly low numbers to begin with. It even reminds us that among the Alliance-aligned High Elves, not everyone is under Vereesa's leadership. Indeed, the High Elves of Quel'Lithien were always indipendent and those of Quel'Danil still are to this day.

    Here's the last canon recount of the High Elves' situation:

    Prince Kael'thas returned home and rallied all the survivors he could find: approximately 90% of the surviving high elves. He declared that these survivors would now bear a new name--the blood elves--in honor of their fallen people. The blood elves no longer consider themselves high elves, and they have different priorities and behaviors than their high elf kindred.

    In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense. High elves do not gather in any significant numbers, nor do they act as a coordinated whole. They are a very small group of individuals scattered all over the world. As such, they do not have common opinions or goals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture--only a past filled with glory and regret.

    (...)

    A few high elves have chosen to join the Alliance in recent years, but the Alliance as a whole remains somewhat suspicious of high elves to this day. The high elves' secession from the Alliance during the Second War left bitter memories. Furthermore, the night elves, who became part of the Alliance during the Third War, saw it as their duty to warn their new allies against the high elves. The Highborne's part in bringing about the War of the Ancients figured heavily in the night elves' retelling of high elf history.
    http://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Warcraf...dia/High_Elves

    The best part is, none of this has ever been contradicted by recent lore. The Silver Covenant is the only active High Elf organization and is nothing more but the military branch of the Kirin Tor, with Vereesa serving as their "Ranger-General". And indeed, the only place where they're mostly tolerated is the very one that always maintained the best relations with Elves (heck, they went far to request the aid of the Horde-aligned Blood Elves specifically) aka Dalaran. Outside of that city there's just a bunch of spared and barely acknowledged individuals.

    No, what HE's are is uprooted. Their former homeland, and the people residing there, seem to become more and more foreign to them the longer they're away. The reason people cling to this nonsense of "HE's are just BE's with blue eyes!" or "HE history is BE history", is largely because the HE's haven't been given much focus in the story (owing to, shocker, their unplayability).

    IIRC, the High Elves have been tentatively looking for a new place to make a new home in for like a decade... a scenario wherein the HE's create a new home for themselves isn't likely to occur in-game, unless they're made playable. Then, immediately, their story directly pivots away from anything remotely involving the Blood Elves.
    No, there's no "new place" they never tried to find because they're not united to begin with. The Silver Covenant mind their own businesses and chill in Dalaran. And no, they aren't uprooted at all. As much as they love to mark a distinction from Blood Elves, their roots, history, lore, culture, background...all of that is tied to Quel'Thalas and the Blood Elves:

    Captain Auric Sunchaser says: Quel'Delar is not held in high esteem by the sin'dorei alone. It holds a place in the heart of all children of Silvermoon.
    Captain Auric Sunchaser says: This blade has been returned to us for a reason, my lords. Now is the time to rally behind the bearer of Quel'Delar and avenge the destruction of Silvermoon and the Sunwell.
    http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:The_Purification_of_Quel'Delar

    Vereesa, of all High Elves, made it even more blatant:

    Silvermoon Messenger says: Lord Lor'themar demands an explanation for the presence of this... exile in our lands.
    Vereesa Windrunner says: Quel'Thalas is as much my home as it is yours and I would not see it fall to our ancient enemy.
    http://wow.gamepedia.com/Vereesa_Windrunner

    There is headcanon and then there are the hard facts. High Elves aren't nowhere as close to be "uprooted" and indipendent from Blood Elves in any conceivable way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jack Flash View Post
    I don't get the argument of "Their isn't enough of them to be reasonable!" yet..

    -Draenei have absolutely tiny numbers that originally escaped from Argus and had even more slaughtered on Draenor and have had even more die since landing on Azeroth.
    -Goblins you play are part of a small Cartel that's entire Island exploded and you play as one of the few survivors of the Lost Isles.
    -Player controlled Pandaren are only the ones that live on the Turtle.
    -Worgen are the few Gilneans that escaped both the Cataclsym, the Worgen Curse AND the destruction of Gilneas and Silverpine via the Forsaken.

    Using population as an excuse is inane.
    And all of these races have much more people, history, culture and lore than High Elves.

    High Elves has all these things indeed. They're called "Blood Elves" and "Quel'Thalas".

    Quote Originally Posted by M-Ra View Post
    I just don't think the Horde should get the High Elves that are already in the Alliance without losing something and that's not too harsh.
    I don't even know what this bullshit is supposed to mean. The Horde has its little factions of Ogres and Forest Trolls, not mirrored by their carbon-copies in the Alliance, and yet these aren't playable. I think the Alliance can just accept the presence of their little High Elf organization without crying for playable High Elves.

    And about losing things, remind me how we didn't totally buttfucked Zul'jin in the 2.3 after all the teasing in Vanilla (when Zul'jin and the Forest Trolls as a whole becoming Horde again was still a likely possibility, completely ruined by the decision to add Blood Elves as new Horde race).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaikal21 View Post
    you can't blame the entire alliance for the actions of ONE man especially at that time when the alliance was in tatters.
    The Kirin Tor is as much as guilty, as they turned a blind eye and did nothing to vouch for their own Council member. And in the 5.1 they wronged the Blood Elves once again, doing nothing to speak some sense to an emotionally unstable Jaina. They proved time and time again to be a bunch of spineless opportunists.

    And seriously guys, do you want to start this argument all over again? The WC encyclopedia itself clarified how High Elves aren't trusted in the Alliance. 10 fucking years has passed and there's people still bitching about Blood Elves joining the Horde. Fucking hell, I'm not surprised there's still this hilarious High Elf demand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenji87 View Post
    And that is a problem why?
    If that is the logic then what exactly is the model difference between the two Pandaren races?
    There's no "two Pandaren races", there is one Pandaren race added to both factions in the same expansion. They have been introduced as "new race" because they were effectively new.

    High Elves aren't "new". They're Blood Elf rip-offs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by IgnisVenom View Post
    Many people want High Elves, but many people don't. So, here's my idea on it:
    Make High Elves a Night Elves subrace.
    It seems good to me, but I wanna know your thoughts. Discuss!
    A sub-race option is plausable but there are better ways, the High Elves are the only alliance race barring half-elves that actually exist in the current lore that isnt a new race recently joined. Its more than likely we will see the High Elves playable at some point, but how, is anyones guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    High Elves aren't "new". They're Blood Elf rip-offs.
    Thats a bit of an obnoxiously narrow sighted statement, not to mention Blood Elves became the "next" generation of High Elves, so technically, the Blood Elves are the rip offs.



    High Elves are a plausable race option, but one would need serious retcons before it was possible, for a start, you'd have to rephrase that 1% of the high elf populace is all that remains, as according to the statistics, the source acclaimed that roughly 10% of the populace remained after the whole quel'thalas being destroyed by Arthas incident, most of which became blood elves.

    This would have to be changed to a statistic more feezable, like 25% of the elves, of which 15% went blood elf, and the remaining 10% remained high elves.

    As to the story the high elves can tell, well thats fairly self-explanitory, they need a new home, quel'thalas while they claim it to be theirs is clearly not, and unlikely ever will be again.

    This gives opportunity to add the high elves during a south sea's expansion due to the potential of finding new islands to colonise.
    Last edited by CaptainV; 2016-05-12 at 01:09 PM.

  20. #220
    The difference between High Elves and Blood Elves is minuscule at best. The main difference being politics and there are only about 50 High Elves left.

    And having them as a Night Elf subrace makes no sense.

    They're also a bunch of idiots since their inception, the only reason they exist was because they are a bunch of volatile heroi-...magic addicts. Ain't nobody got time for that.
    Last edited by Radaney; 2016-05-12 at 01:12 PM.

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