WoW PVP Dead: Time to Replace Holinka?

[Snegovik]

World will be even worse because Artifact Relics, and speshil Effect Legendaries. Throughout the entire history of WoW, PvE gear was the superior choice for doing player versus player battles.
While there have been some steps forward from Vanilla, where people with Ahn'Qiraj Gear could global other players to now, eleven years later where the difference is smaller... Oh wait, there weren't:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTn6...youtu.be&t=32s


I started playing in Cata and Devs vow to make PvP gear best for PvP time and time again with each expansion, Example pre-WoD Interview
"So we've taken steps to ensure that if you want the best PvP items you can achieve them from PvP."
http://www.arenajunkies.com/news/622...brian-holinka/

Bollocks, all of it. Resilience was not enough to offset insane PvE gear stats boost, neither was PvP power, nor is the current dual ilvl, and certainly Won't be Legion PvP gear (if you get lucky enough to obtain it in the first place with Strongboxes RNG)

Because at the end of the day, PvP is an afterthought, and PvPers are second class citizens of Warcraft. You will never defeat PvE Dragonslayers in WPvP combat unless they go AFK.


OT: It is not just Holinka, who at least made some steps in the right direction, it is their PvE team that World PvP Combat is best enjoyed with grinding PvE Legendaries. Jay Wilson should be replaced first.
https://youtu.be/SLLWpT_nsTE?t=32s

Trust me mate i feel you, i plaid since vanila myself (back when best pvp gear was from pve with an exception rank14), or how in Wrath any sub 2k melee who got Shadowmourne got easy glad, or end of Cata DS trinkets/rog's legendaries back when you could use them in rated pvp, yeh pve gear historically was better than pvp gear for pvp, which is dumb. But what i meant, even with worst gear off, skill will even out the ground, since in pve most ppl master their classes + boss fights while in PvP u gotta learn every1 class in order learn how to counter each spec, hence skill is still relevant but ya if PvPer has PVE gear then its gg vs PvPers in pvp gear.

[camicio]

And just like in the case with every other company, it's just as baseless and no moreso the manager's fault. Even when there's a problem, it's usually got nothing to do with the manager of the store - Such as a cashier's bad attitude, or being out of a certain product. Is it the manager's fault that a certain item happens to be popular? Is it the manager's fault that the cashier acted the way he did?

The manager could have fired the cashier if he/she acted the way he/she did. The manager should have anticipated what item would be popular and ordered enough of them.

[Deleted]

Imo the PvP system in Legion should have been in place from the beginning, especially the stat change. Can you imagine how balance would have been for every expansion with Blizz not having to worry about certain abilities/classes being great for pve but sucking for PvP or vice versa.

The game will be in a much healthier state balance wise I think, though they've really trimmed ranged mobility (and left mele's for the most part) and CC in general, and with increasing health pools battles may last quite some time (not sure if that's good or bad)

[shoegazing]

Holinka isn't the reason PvP is bad. He's not an amazing designer but he has shown some humility and that he can learn from past mistakes.

Celestalon is the reason PvP is bad. He's the one responsible for class design, which is the #1 problem with PvP right now. Mages that do most of their burst by pressing 1 instant spell twice, and then just spam Polymorph until Ice Nova comes back off cooldown, all those problems stem directly from the fact that the class designer Celestalon only cares about PvE performance and spreadsheets and doesn't pay any attention to how skillful or rewarding a class is to play in PvP.

[Stormspellz]

Holinka isn't the reason PvP is bad. He's not an amazing designer but he has shown some humility and that he can learn from past mistakes.

Celestalon is the reason PvP is bad. He's the one responsible for class design, which is the #1 problem with PvP right now. Mages that do most of their burst by pressing 1 instant spell twice, and then just spam Polymorph until Ice Nova comes back off cooldown, all those problems stem directly from the fact that the class designer Celestalon only cares about PvE performance and spreadsheets and doesn't pay any attention to how skillful or rewarding a class is to play in PvP.

Holinka is horrible, he's been far to condescending on twitter/interviews, his title "lead pvp developer" makes him either incompetent or a PR figured head, Ashran is 100% on holinka, its freaking achievement that every patch made it worse. We still don't have a full vanity reward system, all they would have to do is open up ms paint and start going crazy then throw it on a vendor for conquest.

[ElDoorO]

Holinka is horrible, he's been far to condescending on twitter/interviews, his title "lead pvp developer" makes him either incompetent or a PR figured head, Ashran is 100% on holinka, its freaking achievement that every patch made it worse. We still don't have a full vanity reward system, all they would have to do is open up ms paint and start going crazy then throw it on a vendor for conquest.

Oh you just started WoW? Sorry, you aren't going to kill 500 Pandaren before Legion comes out and Legion comes in in several months...

[shoegazing]

Holinka is horrible, he's been far to condescending on twitter/interviews, his title "lead pvp developer" makes him either incompetent or a PR figured head, Ashran is 100% on holinka, its freaking achievement that every patch made it worse. We still don't have a full vanity reward system, all they would have to do is open up ms paint and start going crazy then throw it on a vendor for conquest.

I don't know what to tell you if you were expecting Ashran to be good. That place is designed only for filthy casuals and as I am not that, I have never paid any attention to it.

[Stormspellz]

I don't know what to tell you if you were expecting Ashran to be good. That place is designed only for filthy casuals and as I am not that, I have never paid any attention to it.

"filthy casuals" is such a vomit inducing term, Ashran had potential, but it was quickly thrown away.

[Mafic]

Ashran is more interesting than Tol Borad when pushing the road. The problem is Ashran is designed to be win traded by both sides once the buff reaches high enough...kind of the win trading that happened with Tol Borad among the players at release.

The reason why Ashran and Tol Borad failed was they were not tested extensively enough. Especially Tol Borad which was available with less than one month from launch.

Celestalon is very tunnel vision with spread sheet DPS and utility isn't taken into consideration. I find that Ion is more interested in the utility argument and if there is any hope of utility returning it is with him. The reason being is that Ion designs PVE encounters that requires extensive use of utility, heals, and CC at high levels of PVE play. And he is the #2 guy in all of WoW overall so if you want changes you have to convince him. Holinka is simply going to balance templates and PVP talents.

Kalgan is probably along with the ride and chilling like a villain as always.

[shoegazing]

"filthy casuals" is such a vomit inducing term, Ashran had potential, but it was quickly thrown away.

Ashran never had potential. Only someone who has extremely limited PvP experience would *ever* suggest that 40v40 has potential. There is no room to make skillful plays in a 40v40, it's just a zerg fest. There's a very good reason you never see top tier players saying "oh, I'm so excited to queue Ashran / WG / TB / AV / IoC" - because none of those settings offer satisfying gameplay to someone who plays their class at a high level. It's the very nature of 40v40 and of having PvE objectives and mobs.

[Stormspellz]

Ashran never had potential. Only someone who has extremely limited PvP experience would *ever* suggest that 40v40 has potential. There is no room to make skillful plays in a 40v40, it's just a zerg fest. There's a very good reason you never see top tier players saying "oh, I'm so excited to queue Ashran / WG / TB / AV / IoC" - because none of those settings offer satisfying gameplay to someone who plays their class at a high level. It's the very nature of 40v40 and of having PvE objectives and mobs.

Different people enjoy different things, an open world zone dedicated to pvp does have potential to be great and amazing experience, not everything needs to be series competition to be enjoyable.

[Deleted]

Wait a god damned fucking minute, I could have sworn I read that in Legion you can get better raid level gear is the higher brackets of arena? Was that bullshit?

Pretty bullshit mythic is currently 10 ilvl higher than elite gear and you be missing the tier set bonus and the ability to focus on secondary stats for your spec as pvp gear you get template states and your gear just give a minor boost to your ilvl.

- - - Updated - - -

"filthy casuals" is such a vomit inducing term, Ashran had potential, but it was quickly thrown away.

I agree concept was good but it just didn't turn out as planned like garrisons...... I think ashrana by design was going to fail from the start as they added to many things and not enough focus. Like for example WG,ToL and ofc AV simple tactics attack and defend it might be done different ways but thats the core game play of the maps there simple with focus. You hold the point or you take it thats why they where a success and fun unlike ashrana where its attack on attack with events mixed in there isnt any change in the game play for both teams so one side is always going to get rekt again and again.

[Teebone]

All these threads of 'replace this bozo' or 'nerf that, remove this' are just indications that you have not realized the smartest move is to replace WoW itself in your gaming habits. It's 12 years old son. It had a good run, but trying to fix it at this point is moot and useless.

I have WoD to thank for breaking my habit.

[shoegazing]

Different people enjoy different things, an open world zone dedicated to pvp does have potential to be great and amazing experience, not everything needs to be series competition to be enjoyable.

I never said the reason had anything to do with it not being a serious competition. It has everything to do with the fact that there is no room for making any impressive or satisfying plays on your class. How is a shaman supposed to ground that incoming deep freeze with 80 players flinging spells back and forth? How is that rogue supposed to blind the enemy priest's trinket when it's just going to get broken by some moron's AoE?

Personally, I love world PvP. Real world PvP, not the fake Ashran kind. Timeless Isle was fantastic. Quel'Danas. Real grassroots WPvP. The little skirmishes that broke out in the Tol Barad questing zone between the larger astroturf "WPvP" battles.

[Stormspellz]

I never said the reason had anything to do with it not being a serious competition. It has everything to do with the fact that there is no room for making any impressive or satisfying plays on your class. How is a shaman supposed to ground that incoming deep freeze with 80 players flinging spells back and forth? How is that rogue supposed to blind the enemy priest's trinket when it's just going to get broken by some moron's AoE?

Personally, I love world PvP. Real world PvP, not the fake Ashran kind. Timeless Isle was fantastic. Quel'Danas. Real grassroots WPvP. The little skirmishes that broke out in the Tol Barad questing zone between the larger astroturf "WPvP" battles.

You pretty bluntly implied it, if you go back from the first descriptions of what Ashran was from what was developed and later made worse (still don't know they managed that with each patch) its two very different things.

[camicio]

Holy thread revival batman.

The manager would then be understaffed, because customers ALWAYS find something to complain about so he'd be firing all his cashiers for one reason or another, and then HE would be fired for not making quota. The manager could then be reprimanded for overspending on a certain product that didn't sell as well as he'd hoped, which shows bad judgement.

You're stretching reeeeeeal hard here and not really making the cut. Your situations are EXTREMELY unlikely and more likely to cause more problems than solve anything.

First the cashier was the problem (bad attitude), now you say the cashier was fine but the costumers are the problem because they complain. If you have a cashier who is not doing what he/she is supposed to do you fire him/her before they damage the company. can't do anything about the costumers

[Dnusha]

So guys, OP is going to replace holinka or something? or maybe someone else from this thread?

[Deleted]

I've never been a real pvper, though would still spend a decent portion of an expansion having some fun in BG's, but i dont think i spent more than three hours pvping in the time i spent in WoD.

If it's as boring and bot-ridden in Legion as WoD then i think perhaps a change is needed. But lets see how it plays out first.

[Transmigration]

I don't know man. In all it's previous states as well as it's current, PvP in WoW is the smoothest shit I've experienced in any MMO. I've tried sooo many other games only to find their version of PvP/BGs/Arenas to be wonky and not enjoyable.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

I know people have been joking about pvp been dead since late wotlk, but pvp was still a big part of wow even at the end of MoP. In WoD pvp is really dead, if you look at activity the people doing competitive pvp now are about 10% or less of the people doing so at the end of MoP and that is just sad. I don't know if Holinka is solely responsible for the complete and utter failure of pvp in WoD but big changes need to be made asap. If the new PvP system doesn't work at the start of legion then he needs to go, simply because he is THE Senior PvP Designer, and currently PvP is dead af...

kthxbye.