Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[karatakor]

With shutting down Nostalrius, comes also the responsibility for Blizzard to offer us an alternative.
This silence from Blizzard team, and the scam on deviating the legacy topic to pristine/leveling dicussions is becoming ridiculous.
And i'm not talking about clarrison, releasing an extension in Alpha stage.

[Deleted]

With shutting down Nostalrius, comes also the responsibility for Blizzard to offer us an alternative.
This silence from Blizzard team, and the scam on deviating the legacy topic to pristine/leveling dicussions is becoming ridiculous.
And i'm not talking about clarrison, releasing an extension in Alpha stage.

No, Blizzard doesn't owe you legacy realms. Blizzard is about to release a new product, of course they are going to discuss it over legacy realms. I really don't understand the hurry anyway, like I get that there is momentum now, but if people really want this, they can wait until after legion release, because it's not like it can happen before that anyway.

Obviously it's alright to discuss this, like any other idea, but this "discussion" is just a bunch of entitled people who used to be blizzards costumers demanding something from them. I'm not condemning private servers, go nuts for all I care, but I also realize it's blizzards prerogative to shut them down. So perhaps you should stop acting like children and hold tight for a few weeks for the meeting. After all, you've been waiting this for 9 years anyway, whats a few more, huh?

[Uurdz]

I hate to say this, Darsithis... But, really, that's all that this thread is about now. Pro-legacy bickering with anti-legacy, and the same insults being tossed back and forth. I really don't see why you would get on to people about bickering, when it's all that is really happening in it anymore. All the actual good arguments for and against were given pages ago, and now it's just the same people sniping back and forth at eachother.

I don't really think this thread has much purpose other than that anymore.

Sorry who are you?

There is nothing new to add at present. There will be, eventually, and at such a time this thread will be used for it.

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With shutting down Nostalrius, comes also the responsibility for Blizzard to offer us an alternative.
This silence from Blizzard team, and the scam on deviating the legacy topic to pristine/leveling dicussions is becoming ridiculous.
And i'm not talking about clarrison, releasing an extension in Alpha stage.

What the hell are you smoking? Blizzard don't owe us (you) anything. They've not been silent on this issue. Stop expecting an update every week. Give it time.

Pristine servers are a legitimate alternative albeit not one that is popular. They don't have unlimited money and Pristine is obviously something that could be affordable in their current budget. Legacy will cost a lot more.

They're also trying to address some of the things that have been lost in Retail Servers that people say Legacy Servers will bring back which is good.

Sure i'd just prefer legacy servers thanks but still they are trying.

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I'd volunteer for that job in a heartbeat.

Glad to see you get so much glee in wanting to kill what a group of people want. Just because a minority of pro-legacy players are vile, doesn't mean the whole community is.
OMG @ your youtube channel.

LOL amazing videos. Much argument. Very sage.

Edit 1: Holy hell did you actually say go die in a fire to pro-legacy servers? The hell man :/
Edit 2: Omg and ISIS-like???? the hell. Gee man :/

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True, but one got left open (this one). Just saying if it got closed (which I don't want to see happen), it just means they'd have to start closing new ones that would keep popping up.

Its nice to have 1 post to be able to discuss ideas in. Would be a shame for it to be closed - would be a better victory for anti-legacy players if it just died off and didn't come back.

[Marakesh]

Is this for pvp? I wanted to play Vanilla and was getting ready to download Nost before it got shut down. I went to the Nost forums first and asked if it was possible to to tank on my fav class Paladin and with exception of one guy (bless his heart) whom most people labeled crazy. I was told to go holy. That Paladins could not tank all the 40 mans. I also asked if I could got Ret and dps and again most people said I would only get a spot if I went holy. That's pretty much why never downloaded Nost. I don't view that good balance. I have no problem with legacy servers, but I think a little bit of knob turning would be good imo.

I think that's a slippery slope. You know what you're getting ahead of times anyways. Plus, if they did progression servers like they should, you know what they will become in TBC. Especially with 40 man raiding you don't need anywhere near as many tanks as you do when running 5/10 man dungeons. Being main tank in vanilla raiding was so rare as to be more of a theoretical limit to druid and paladins.

[Uurdz]

I think that's a slippery slope. You know what you're getting ahead of times anyways. Plus, if they did progression servers like they should, you know what they will become in TBC. Especially with 40 man raiding you don't need anywhere near as many tanks as you do when running 5/10 man dungeons. Being main tank in vanilla raiding was so rare as to be more of a theoretical limit to druid and paladins.

I think given talents and raid bosses would be static they could work this out expect it would probably required including new abilities.

[Deleted]

I'm simply telling the truth in the fact that the thread has no purpose any longer because all it is is people arguing back and forth (including yourself). Sorry if the truth hurts.

You could always go back to discussing it in the private server subreddit.

I think you hit the nail on the head, there. We are arguing back and forth. That's kind of the point of a discussion forum, so no, the thread shouldn't be closed because you feel each side has had their say. There's always more to talk about, more viewpoints, more ideas. We should be encouraging people to start having some intelligent debate rather than going back to their own echo chambers.

While I'm here, I really can't help myself with responding to your video on Legacy servers and the community supporting them. So, from what I can gather, your main point is that Blizzard should dismiss the idea of legacy servers until WoW is no longer in development because the "legacy server community" is vile, rabid, toxic and otherwise terrible as a whole. We show no "redeeming qualities". What I want to get across to you, and it's a point I feel should be way more obvious that it is, is that there is no 'Legacy Server Club'. There's no chain of command. There's no space or forum that we all get together to say "This is exactly what we want, and this is exactly how we should go about trying to get it. Legacy team, ROLL OUT!"

I completely, 100% agree with you when it comes to the people spamming everything vaguely WoW related (and in some cases, not even that) with pro-legacy stuff. It's unnecessary and needlessly disruprive. Blizzard is *not* the enemy. We've already set the wheels in motion in regards to Blizzard listening to us and they're meeting with a freaking private server host, for christs sake. Now we can let the dust settle and move into some intelligent debate, idea sharing and make progress.

Dismissing that intelligent debate, idea sharing and progress because of the few rabid, angry and immature fans is just as immature.

There are assholes on every side of every debate in the world. We'd all be a whole lot better off and happier in the long run if we just -don't listen to them- and figure out our own views based on what we think ourselves.

[Deleted]

The recent Hazzikostas "Dev Update" tells me they at least read some stuff, but I still don't think they get the gravity of todays shortcoming against vanilla wow...

I would like pristine realms - but not now - not how they imagine them right now.
Imo they show that they have not played Vanilla recently again themselves. They do not get some of the problems.

What do I think do they miss?

- Pacing of overall combat:
That is really broad - if you can not fill every single GCD, or have casts that take 3sec or more you actually have time to chat. To be Social.
Get rid of filler abilities like steady shot. Downtime can be your best friend. Your abilities you do use will feel more impactful.
Re-Introduce misses and resists. You can literally kill level 10 mobs currently as a level 1.
The stats to get rid of hits/misses do not need to be reintroduced, just make in a group every groupmember give +1% hit or something. If you are many the enemy has a harder time to evade and stuff. Make it so that in a 15+ group you never miss/resist against boss-level.

- Increase aggro-range:
Lets make fighting three mobs at the same time alone a challenge again where you might die.
This in addition to the increased aggro-range makes you pay attention to your surroundings.
You know why I felt Vanilla was so much harder recently? Because since Cataclysm I have been unlearning the basics.
I only have to watch out for mob-abilities and my whack-a-mole actionbar. Great.

- Make mob-tagging group exclusive again:
You should group up. And you should make these groups yourself. If there is an asshole then let that be the case - let the community handle the issue if it becomes an issue.
If the combat is slower paced again the chatting to form these groups would not be a problem anymore.
Negative social interactions are not bad. Making enemies/rivals should be as easy as making friends - currently everything is carebear and removes any friction, good or bad.

- Dungeons should not be spammable:
Why did I like dungeons back then? Because it was something special. You had to put work into them.
They are meaningless if you can spam them with no regard. Ok Dungeonfinder is bad, they got that message. But the dungeons are still designed for it.
Dungeons were already really streamlined in TBC, but heroics were still very difficult and needed CC - so your class composition was important.
Since WotLK dungeons are diablo-zergfests with no regard to composition - tank choice did not matter, DD choice did not matter.
The introduction of dungeonfinder just cemented the new dungeon-design.
If you eat icecream multiple times everyday you do not appreciate it as much as someone who only eats it max once per week.
There were 1-day lockouts for heroic dungeons - and they had a reason to exist.
Nerf AoE damage stuff, make CC important again, make dungeons like the old sunken temple or old scholomance again.
For non-pristine realms they could just be parts of the great dungeons that are streamlined aoe-fests. Like new sunken temple.

- Questing together should encourage communication:
Let's start simple - Your interface should not tell you the progress of individual quest-parts of your group-members. Simple example:
A: "got everything"
B: "hey I still need 5 more gold dust"
A: "kk"
That is a very simple conversation that is completely irrelevant in current wow. Is it important?
yes absolutely, it humanizes the other person - more than any hello or bye can.
It is an icebreaker. It invites further conversation. You might be inclined to thank someone, you might want to talk about strategies to optimize
your group effectiveness or even just start talking about your life. This is sooooo incredibly important...

That are very very important parts for me. Parts that are currently breaking the game for me.
Just some other bullet-points from my perspective:
- Transmog is fine
- Flying should probably be disabled
- Phasing/Linear story while questing should probably be abandoned again. Add optional but great group-only quests back in.
- You should learn spells again at your trainer - for payment.
- spell-ranks should return - it is a great reward while leveling
- old talent trees feel great when leveling - perhaps in addition to current talent-system? just passives and stuff.
- I recently heard Legion automatically groups you up for world quests? that makes me wanna puke... even less communication is the aim? thank you.
- disable all shop stuff on pristine: no mounts, pets, helmets, faction changes etc.

There is probably more stuff that I can't think of but the most important stuff is covered I believe.
That is all just my optinion, but I want to be a good customer and tell why I really don't want to play current wow anymore.

[AeneasBK]

Dismissing that intelligent debate, idea sharing and progress because of the few rabid, angry and immature fans is just as immature.

Get used to the idea that some of the posters are simply here to bait. You will notice they ignore any moderate posts or discussion in favour of picking the dumbest thing the other side has written in the last page and jumping on that poster for being dumb. You're right in as much as they exist on both sides though. The only way to "win" is to not respond; which is why they pick the dumbest posts to respond to - most likely to bait a response.

[Gavan]

Get used to the idea that some of the posters are simply here to bait. You will notice they ignore any moderate posts or discussion in favour of picking the dumbest thing the other side has written in the last page and jumping on that poster for being dumb. You're right in as much as they exist on both sides though. The only way to "win" is to not respond; which is why they pick the dumbest posts to respond to - most likely to bait a response.

Or things that directly challenge their analysis/world view on the subject.

There seems to be an extremely subjective view on this issue overall. Lots of emotion governing how people are acting/reacting.

[Relapses]

I only stop by periodically to see how many times the phrase "your opinion is not a fact" is referenced.

For those interested, this week alone we're already up to 29,945 uses!

[Struggle]

I only stop by periodically to see how many times the phrase "your opinion is not a fact" is referenced.

For those interested, this week alone we're already up to 29,945 uses!

I think half of those are mine from yesterday alone.

[Deleted]

- Pacing of overall combat:
That is really broad - if you can not fill every single GCD, or have casts that take 3sec or more you actually have time to chat. To be Social.
Get rid of filler abilities like steady shot. Downtime can be your best friend.

How delusionally naive do you have to be to turn Vanilla's slow and awful combat system into a 'pro'.
The combat system is a million times better now than it was in Vanilla, or even TBC for that matter.

I played vanilla, it was fun because it was new but the combat was AWFUL, class balance was NULL and the raids were about as simple as putting the tail on the donkey.

Don't get me wrong, I would probably pay for a 'legacy expansion pack' to sit and gank people and do the odd BG when progression is over, but to expect blizzard to invest probably around 10mil USD (Outsourcing, if you don't realise how much pain in the ass it is to build on old code, yea go read up on it or sacrifice time invested into progressive new expansions) into making vanilla wow battle.net compatible, yea gl, especially seeing as people would probably not want to pay for an xpac kind of thing for blizzard to actually make money back, or atleast break even.

[MasterHamster]

The recent Hazzikostas "Dev Update" tells me they at least read some stuff, but I still don't think they get the gravity of todays shortcoming against vanilla wow...

I would like pristine realms - but not now - not how they imagine them right now.
Imo they show that they have not played Vanilla recently again themselves. They do not get some of the problems.

What do I think do they miss? [...]

Very good post. Wish there were more like it.
So much has been lost because we've slowly streamlined and taken away all "boring logistics" etc but we lost something very important in the process. Nothing feels special anymore, you don't feel like you have any reason to be social, etc.

I have very similar ideas even though I'd want them to focus on Live instead of Legacy. I want the now to be improved, some things taken back, for the better whole. Is it fun to sit and look for people for a dungeon then run there? Not in that sense, but ON THE WAY you lose social interaction, sense of scale of the world, and everything that can happen on the way.

We've lost the MMO element in WoW, no doubt. Blizzard has removed what we in the shortterm think is "boring" but in doing so we've become apathetic.

[Struggle]

How delusionally naive do you have to be to turn Vanilla's slow and awful combat system into a 'pro'.
The combat system is a million times better now than it was in Vanilla, or even TBC for that matter.

I played vanilla, it was fun because it was new but the combat was AWFUL, class balance was NULL and the raids were about as simple as putting the tail on the donkey.

Don't get me wrong, I would probably pay for a 'legacy expansion pack' to sit and gank people and do the odd BG when progression is over, but to expect blizzard to invest probably around 10mil USD (Outsourcing, if you don't realise how much pain in the ass it is to build on old code, yea go read up on it or sacrifice time invested into progressive new expansions) into making vanilla wow battle.net compatible, yea gl, especially seeing as people would probably not want to pay for an xpac kind of thing for blizzard to actually make money back, or atleast break even.

Uh, porting every old expansion and hiring a dedicated dev team and admin staff for them all might cost that much...maybe..

Its not the difficulty of what needs to be done. Gaming studios port games to different systems all the time, have for years. Its just mind numbing codemonkey work is all, and it would take a little time.

And even a 10 million dollar investment would be repaid in mere months of only a couple hundred thousand people resubbed. It would take less than a year to turn a corporate-sized profit.

And your opinions on the combat system in BC and Vanilla are your opinions. Not facts of how things are. I loved the BC combat and gameplay systems far more than modern retail, but that's just me.

[khalltusk]

Very good post. Wish there were more like it.
So much has been lost because we've slowly streamlined and taken away all "boring logistics" etc but we lost something very important in the process. Nothing feels special anymore, you don't feel like you have any reason to be social, etc.

I have very similar ideas even though I'd want them to focus on Live instead of Legacy. I want the now to be improved, some things taken back, for the better whole. Is it fun to sit and look for people for a dungeon then run there? Not in that sense, but ON THE WAY you lose social interaction, sense of scale of the world, and everything that can happen on the way.

We've lost the MMO element in WoW, no doubt. Blizzard has removed what we in the shortterm think is "boring" but in doing so we've become apathetic.

Pristine server idea would be more to your liking then. The things the guy you quoted would kill the game for me so i'd rather they put out a pristine server/legacy one for people who want that mundane shit back . Let you guys have at it in there to your hearts content .

[MasterHamster]

Pristine server idea would be more to your liking then. The things the guy you quoted would kill the game for me so i'd rather they put out a pristine server/legacy one for people who want that mundane shit back . Let you guys have at it in there to your hearts content .

If Pristine realms restores some of what makes MMOs feel like MMOs again, sure I'd give it a go. From a wider PoV a lot of those changes is healthy for the genre, but that requires an ability to see things from different angles. Understand why inconvenience can be good for enjoyment in the long term. Why would one NOT want to just be able to get put in a group and teleported to the dungeon, isn't doing the dungeon the entire point? And yes, to some extent it is. It's just that too much convenience neuters everything around it.

Give players the ability to teleport to anything they wish, when they want it, and watch as people try to figure out why the world suddenly feels tiny and disjointed. The reason is obvious, but the convenience is cutting away the boring traveling, no?

And Blizzard followed that. For almost a decade they have slowly cut away all the "boring" parts of MMOs and now scratch their heads as people are less social, less likely to form bonds, less appreciating of the game world around them. Because they have all the tools necessary to just progress now now now. No strife. No significant investments, and then they wonder why it doesn't feel engaging.

I'm not interested in the drop-in-right-into-the-action design WoW has slowly moved towards. I want to earn my way there, that makes me appreciate it a lot more. The things you call "mundane shit" is probably a big factor in some of the friendships you've (presumably) forged ingame. When you had to chat to fill a group. When a spot in a raid or heroic wasn't a godgiven right by an automated grouping tool. When you filled the travel time chitchatting on your way to the dungeon. Or maybe it's just me who can't make friends with people who are barely willing to say more than "hi" at the beginning of yet another dungeon where success is guaranteed, or in PUGs where a single mistake makes half the raid leave. They can just sign another group anyway right.

You can get to ilvl 720+, and get your legendary ring without a single social interaction or word uttered. That's not an MMO, that's a singleplayer game with the occasional asshole ninjapulling.

[D3athsting]

Greetings all,
Since this is one of the last platforms available to us administrators treat this as the official announcement.
*snip* is no more. The lead developer has taken down the forums and is rerouting traffic to *snip* at this time. Any solicitations for donations should be ignored. This is an attempt to cash out before running out the door so please spread the word to avoid any financial loss on the communities part.
It's disgusting how everything has turned out and there is no excuse for this, but nevertheless thank you for all who expressed interest at one point in the project.
Farewell.
-Peanutbutter
*EDIT*
Just to be clear, the lead developer decided to cut everyone out. The admins/staff did NOT have any say in this, he has complete control over everything.

Those are the guys who should be smashed by blizzard's hammer, not the nost guys...

[khalltusk]

If Pristine realms restores some of what makes MMOs feel like MMOs again, sure I'd give it a go. From a wider PoV a lot of those changes is healthy for the genre, but that requires an ability to see things from different angles.

If you like the idea of pristine realms and enough people enjoy them I say thats a good thing, players like you can go and enjoy that while others like me can play on the other realms and enjoy that. Win win imo.

Understand why inconvenience can be good for enjoyment in the long term.

Some inconvenience is fine, I would enjoy a better leveling experience in classic zones (take a bit longer to level). I do a dungeon or two and im passed that area in no time. Dungeons I have no problem going to same for raids, LFD and LFR have teleports as you cannot rely on random players getting their slow ass into these places. Just look at _any_ world boss for a recent example. "123" spam all day long from lazy players. So they teleport to stop these lazy gits ruining the experience of others.

And Blizzard followed that. For almost a decade they have slowly cut away all the "boring" parts of MMOs and now scratch their heads as people are less social, less likely to form bonds, less appreciating of the game world around them. Because they have all the tools necessary to just progress now now now. No strife. No significant investments, and then they wonder why it doesn't feel engaging.

News flash for you, forcing people to be social does not make them social. Before any of these systems came in people were just as anti social as before. All we get with these systems is the ability to see these anti social people doing this content now as its just a click of a button. Same thing with bad players we're more exposed to them now than ever.

I'm not interested in the drop-in-right-into-the-action design WoW has slowly moved towards. I want to earn my way there, that makes me appreciate it a lot more. The things you call "mundane shit" is probably a big factor in some of the friendships you've (presumably) forged ingame. When you had to chat to fill a group. When a spot in a raid or heroic wasn't a godgiven right by an automated grouping tool. When you filled the travel time chitchatting on your way to the dungeon. Or maybe it's just me who can't make friends with people who are barely willing to say more than "hi" at the beginning of yet another dungeon where success is guaranteed, or in PUGs where a single mistake makes half the raid leave. They can just sign another group anyway right.

You can get to ilvl 720+, and get your legendary ring without a single social interaction or word uttered. That's not an MMO, that's a singleplayer game with the occasional asshole ninjapulling.

When I first played I mainly played with my friends, found a few friends in the game via guilds or the odd dungeon. I've made friends the same way I always do. I talk to people, blizzard never removed the ability to talk. Just we're exposed to more people who probably don't care about interacting with you or I.

When I level my druid with my GF, we hit up group finder to do some dungeons (usually 2 or 3). We do this as a bit of down time, we're currently leveling druids so we can play them during legion a little. Usually say hi to the people in the group have a little chat. If we get no replies or spare ones we know to just chat to our selves and get on with the dungeon. As some people really don't care to interact.

[Zarriya]

Pristine server idea would be more to your liking then. The things the guy you quoted would kill the game for me so i'd rather they put out a pristine server/legacy one for people who want that mundane shit back . Let you guys have at it in there to your hearts content .

Pristine servers still wont satisfy legacy players who just want vanilla servers b/c of playstyle. Leveling is still too fast and it is way to easy earn things. In the end I will still be sitting in a garrison.

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Those are the guys who should be smashed by blizzard's hammer, not the nost guys...

hiya D3athsting may I ask for a source for that Peanut Butter quote please. I would like to read it in it's entirety.

[D3athsting]

Pristine servers still wont satisfy legacy players who just want vanilla servers b/c of playstyle. Leveling is still too fast and it is way to easy earn things. In the end I will still be sitting in a garrison.

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hiya D3athsting may I ask for a source for that Peanut Butter quote please. I would like to read it in it's entirety.

--SNIP--

Don't post links to private servers