My Idea On How To Make High Elves Happen

[Friendlyimmolation]

A sub-race option is plausable but there are better ways, the High Elves are the only alliance race barring half-elves that actually exist in the current lore that isnt a new race recently joined. Its more than likely we will see the High Elves playable at some point, but how, is anyones guess.



Thats a bit of an obnoxiously narrow sighted statement, not to mention Blood Elves became the "next" generation of High Elves, so technically, the Blood Elves are the rip offs.



High Elves are a plausable race option, but one would need serious retcons before it was possible, for a start, you'd have to rephrase that 1% of the high elf populace is all that remains, as according to the statistics, the source acclaimed that roughly 10% of the populace remained after the whole quel'thalas being destroyed by Arthas incident, most of which became blood elves.

This would have to be changed to a statistic more feezable, like 25% of the elves, of which 15% went blood elf, and the remaining 10% remained high elves.

As to the story the high elves can tell, well thats fairly self-explanitory, they need a new home, quel'thalas while they claim it to be theirs is clearly not, and unlikely ever will be again.

This gives opportunity to add the high elves during a south sea's expansion due to the potential of finding new islands to colonise.

Playable high elves happened it was called burning crusade

[Raetary]

differnce between blood and high elves:
high elves eyes are blue.


yeeey, so much difference! totally not completely the same race!

[Combatbutler]

This would have to be changed to a statistic more feezable, like 25% of the elves, of which 15% went blood elf, and the remaining 10% remained high elves.

That doesn't change the core issue, high elves have nothing on their own, no distinctive culture, goals, home, leadership, speciality. Everything for that race is already being covered by blood elves.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Alliance still salty 10 years later.

[Lupinemancer]

There's no "two Pandaren races", there is one Pandaren race added to both factions in the same expansion. They have been introduced as "new race" because they were effectively new.

High Elves aren't "new". They're Blood Elf rip-offs.

Technically High Elves were there first, so Blood Elf are High Elf rip-offs.
And I was refering to the fact that people's argument for why High Elves shouldn't playable is that they looks too much like LBood Elves, but with the Pandaren which looks the same on both sides, available to both factions, I don't see that problem!

[Deleted]

No. No High Elves. High Elves are just Blood Elves who didn't jump on the "Let's call ourselves Sin'dorei (Literally meaning Children of Blood), as 90% of our race was killed during The Third War"-wagon. The only difference between those High Elves, and the Blood Elves, are their eyes. The Quel'dorei has blue, the Sin'dorei green because of their old mana addiction and fel use, but that was fixed with the Sunwell, so yeah, no High Elves. If you really want to play a High Elf, make a Blood Elf and use your imagination. All you have to do is really just say that your character didn't want to call him/herself a Sin'dorei, but stuck to the Quel'dorei. Easy fix for you, no waste of resources for the rest of us.

[Florena]

Technically High Elves were there first, so Blood Elf are High Elf rip-offs.
And I was refering to the fact that people's argument for why High Elves shouldn't playable is that they looks too much like LBood Elves, but with the Pandaren which looks the same on both sides, available to both factions, I don't see that problem!

The difference is that pandaren were introduced neutral. They weren't added as an alliance race and then shared with the horde later. If you gave alliance high elves you'd basically be taking a horde race, making a few tweaks to it, and giving them to the Alliance. Those of us that would like high elves are a probably a fairly small minority. Most Alliance players would probably prefer something new. And even what little lore the high elves have gotten in WoW has almost exclusively been used as a mirror for the blood elves rather than doing their own thing, with the Silver Covenant's only real purpose being to clash against the Sunreavers. They don't really do anything but stand opposite the Sunravers in Wrath, and fight them in MoP. Honestly at this point It's probably better just to have the elves reconcile, there's more lore to support that eventually happening than there is for them to suddenly unify and form a new homeland or something. The bulk of the playerbase isn't going to get excited for a third elven race that's 98% identical to an existing race. And there's really not any Alliance races that the Horde has a vocal minority urge to have in return either. The High/Blood elves are in a unique position of having once been part of the Alliance but are now Horde. Now, lore changes over time. It's possible for blizzard to write a story where the high elves unify. It's a game afterall and the lore bends to the will of the writers. But right now it just doesn't seem likely. Nor do I think High Elves would be a big selling feature for alliance players for a new expansion.

Not to mention that blood elves are the most played horde race. They probably don't want to risk skewing faction balance by making them playable on the Alliance too. Things would be even worse if they gave high elves a new model. Then they wouldn't just be a blue eyed copy of a horde race, they'd be an updated version of a horde race given to the other faction.

[Fyersing]

That's a nice narrative, but I doubt there's any source attached to it. And even then, it still doesn't disprove the fact that High Elves has no unity as a whole.

The only available source(s) are the known sentiments of well-known High Elves, namely the revered leader of the Silver Covenant. It stands to reason that if the membership of the organization religiously follow their leader, they probably agree with her politics, no?

Also, you're talking about the race as a whole which is largely irrelevant when talking about a playable faction. Do you talk about the Scourge when debating the merits of playable Undead? What about Fel Orcs when debating the merits of playable orcs?

It doesn't say that the bulk of the existing High Elves are aligned with the Alliance. In fact, that very specification reminds us the existence of High Elves outside of the Alliance, despite the fact that High Elves has strikingly low numbers to begin with. It even reminds us that among the Alliance-aligned High Elves, not everyone is under Vereesa's leadership. Indeed, the High Elves of Quel'Lithien were always indipendent and those of Quel'Danil still are to this day.

You added emphasis to one of my statements and then ignored that statement to go off on an unrelated tangent about something I didn't even say.

I specifically said the bulk of the High Elves that are currently aligned with the Alliance just happen to be members of the Silver Covenant. I didn't say, and this is what you're prattling on about in your post, that all High Elves are aligned with the Alliance.

The best part is, none of this has ever been contradicted by recent lore. The Silver Covenant is the only active High Elf organization and is nothing more but the military branch of the Kirin Tor, with Vereesa serving as their "Ranger-General". And indeed, the only place where they're mostly tolerated is the very one that always maintained the best relations with Elves (heck, they went far to request the aid of the Horde-aligned Blood Elves specifically) aka Dalaran. Outside of that city there's just a bunch of spared and barely acknowledged individuals.

The majority of this bit is an irrelevancy to the discussion of playable High Elves, largely because the supposition seems to be that because the HE's were incapable of accomplishing a task on their own that this somehow implies they're chronically ineffective. If the criteria for success is being a singularly unstoppable military force, like 1/3rd of the playable races are sorely lacking. Hell, the Darkspear Trolls can't even protect their homeland against random incursions from a barely-sentient slave-race.

No, there's no "new place" they never tried to find because they're not united to begin with. The Silver Covenant mind their own businesses and chill in Dalaran. And no, they aren't uprooted at all. As much as they love to mark a distinction from Blood Elves, their roots, history, lore, culture, background...all of that is tied to Quel'Thalas and the Blood Elves:



http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:The_Purification_of_Quel'Delar

Vereesa, of all High Elves, made it even more blatant:



http://wow.gamepedia.com/Vereesa_Windrunner

There is headcanon and then there are the hard facts. High Elves aren't nowhere as close to be "uprooted" and indipendent from Blood Elves in any conceivable way.

So there are two problems with this bit.

1) You're speaking as if I mentioned some grand, hidden kingdom somewhere where thousands of HE's are just frolicking about and being amazing. I didn't -- I stipulated that, as a people estranged from their homeland, the number one thing on their minds is either a) returning to said home or, if this isn't feasible or acceptable to their sensibilities, b) finding a new home.

I imagine many would/will choose a), but we're talking about High Elves who are specifically aligned with the Alliance, and they all chose b). And to the point of "not being independent of the Blood Elves", which I can only assume is referring to their cultural history because the assertion doesn't make sense when taken literally, the only thing I can say is that it's very likely that most of their perceived similarities stem almost entirely from 10 years of being half-assed by Blizzard -- not unlike most of the other "lessers" among the playable races (Worgen, Draenei pre-WoD, etc.).

2) We (you) seem to be having trouble with words.

From Merriam-Webster:

uproot
verb up·root \(ˌ)əp-ˈrüt, -ˈru̇t\
: to make (someone) leave home and move to a different place

exile
noun ex·ile \ˈeg-ˌzī(-ə)l, ˈek-ˌsī(-ə)l\
: the state or a period of forced absence from one's country or home

You can't very well say that the HE's are/were exiled, without conceding that they were also uprooted. The words are damn-near synonymous.

[munkeyinorbit]

Many people want High Elves, but many people don't. So, here's my idea on it:
Make High Elves a Night Elves subrace.
It seems good to me, but I wanna know your thoughts. Discuss!

So your answer is basically a fuck you to people who do not want them? All your answer does is piss people off. I wish people would just stop shit posting.

[The Iron Fist]

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because there aren't enough of them don't know their lore. There are less Darkspear Trolls than High Elves.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because they are already in the game doesn't know their lore. Huge differences were shown during the Argent Tournament, The Battered Hilt Questline, and events surrounding the destruction of Theramore between Blood Elves and High Elves.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because the only visible difference is blue eyes are denying the facts. Every race in every expansion have their character models updated, including Blood Elves, to differentiate themselves.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because they would have already been added need only look at Demon Hunters and Pandaren to see anything can be added at any time.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because there are already too many elves doesn't understand the concept that what you don't want does not trump what other players do want. There are enough High Elf fan purists for Blizzard to accommodate them.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because of any reason doesn't get that Blizzard can do whatever they damned well please. It's their IP and should they show the desire to tell a new story or retcon an old one, whether it be a good or bad idea, they very may well do so. See; Pandaren, Warlords of Draenor, Goblins being permanently neutral race or reforging the whole of Azeroth in Cataclysm.

These are just a few reasons why High Elves are possible, whether you'd like to admit it or not. This all coming from a guy who doesn't really care what race is or isn't added to the game.

[Graden]

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because there aren't enough of them don't know their lore. There are less Darkspear Trolls than High Elves.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because they are already in the game doesn't know their lore. Huge differences were shown during the Argent Tournament, The Battered Hilt Questline, and events surrounding the destruction of Theramore between Blood Elves and High Elves.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because the only visible difference is blue eyes are denying the facts. Every race in every expansion have their character models updated, including Blood Elves, to differentiate themselves.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because they would have already been added need only look at Demon Hunters and Pandaren to see anything can be added at any time.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because there are already too many elves doesn't understand the concept that what you don't want does not trump what other players do want. There are enough High Elf fan purists for Blizzard to accommodate them.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because of any reason doesn't get that Blizzard can do whatever they damned well please. It's their IP and should they show the desire to tell a new story or retcon an old one, whether it be a good or bad idea, they very may well do so. See; Pandaren, Warlords of Draenor, Goblins being permanently neutral race or reforging the whole of Azeroth in Cataclysm.

These are just a few reasons why High Elves are possible, whether you'd like to admit it or not. This all coming from a guy who doesn't really care what race is or isn't added to the game.

Northem, is that you?

[The Iron Fist]

Northem, is that you?

You might want to check my post number and ask if that is actually plausible.

TL;DR -- 1,352

P.S. -- Who is Northem? Never seen that name on these forums and I've been here for 8+ years

[Friendlyimmolation]

You might want to check my post number and ask if that is actually plausible.

TL;DR -- 1,352

P.S. -- Who is Northem? Never seen that name on these forums and I've been here for 8+ years

The guy that made the same "muh High elves" arguments you're dangerously close to.

[The Iron Fist]

The guy that made the same "muh High elves" arguments you're dangerously close to.

I don't know what arguments the guy made, but if they were like mine (unbiased, unemotional and fact based) then kudos to him. Most people on both sides of the argument only see red when talking about this topic. People saying they could/would never add High Elves as playable are the same types who stick their fingers in their ears and go "Nah nah nah. I can't hear you!" types. What I mean by saying that is they are being subjective about what they want rather than being objective about whats possible. It's not as if people wanting High Elves are arguing something ridiculous like adding Argonian's or Kha'jiit should be added to the game. High Elves being playable is not unreasonable, all things considered.

[Graden]

You might want to check my post number and ask if that is actually plausible.

TL;DR -- 1,352

P.S. -- Who is Northem? Never seen that name on these forums and I've been here for 8+ years

I know you're not, it was a joke because your post remind me a lot of his High Elf arguments.

[Zulkhan]

Thats a bit of an obnoxiously narrow sighted statement, not to mention Blood Elves became the "next" generation of High Elves, so technically, the Blood Elves are the rip offs.

Narrow-sighted indeed. Remind me all the differences between High Elves and Blood Elves besides their eye colour and political affiliations.

And Blood Elves aren't High Elf rip-offs, they are the High Elves, they simply renamed themselves. Most of those who keeps calling themselves High Elves nowdays made a second renaming, back to the original. They're all the same shit, everything falls down to nomenclature and life choices. Nothing else.

Also, you're talking about the race as a whole which is largely irrelevant when talking about a playable faction. Do you talk about the Scourge when debating the merits of playable Undead? What about Fel Orcs when debating the merits of playable orcs?

The point is another. High Elves are considered few and barely extinct as a whole. This says all about the capacity of the Silver Covenant itself, which, again, is not a "people" but a military organization working for the Kirin Tor specifically. Vereesa is no political leader, she bears a self-crafted version of the title bore by the leader of the military forces of Quel'Thalas, she's no "queen" or "regent lord", because High Elves are not a people.

You added emphasis to one of my statements and then ignored that statement to go off on an unrelated tangent about something I didn't even say.

I specifically said the bulk of the High Elves that are currently aligned with the Alliance just happen to be members of the Silver Covenant. I didn't say, and this is what you're prattling on about in your post, that all High Elves are aligned with the Alliance.

Again, missed the point. We know the situation of High Elves, we know they're not a people, they're not united, they share no specific culture besides the one they carry from Quel'Thalas. And indeed, they're repeatedly described to be few and spared. And despite this, not all of them are Alliance and among the Alliance not all of them follow Vereesa. Because, indeed, Vereesa is no leader of the High Elves, she's the leader of the Silver Covenant, a mere military organization whose existence is meant to serve Dalaran and be a foil for Blood Elves. They're nothing else. They have been introduced as such, they were "relevant" as such. Because, indeed, they have no other ways to be relevant, since everything that matters about them is intertwined with the people they were exiled from.

The majority of this bit is an irrelevancy to the discussion of playable High Elves, largely because the supposition seems to be that because the HE's were incapable of accomplishing a task on their own that this somehow implies they're chronically ineffective. If the criteria for success is being a singularly unstoppable military force, like 1/3rd of the playable races are sorely lacking.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. The point, again, is that High Elves are no people. They're not united, they have no defining culture or lore indipendent from Quel'Thalas and the Blood Elves. The Silver Covenant is much of an Alliance faction like the Revantusk Tribe is a Horde faction. Heck, Revantusk are at least a tribe and a people in its own, the Silver Covenant is basically a bunch of rangers and few mages serving as armed branch for the Kirin Tor.

Hell, the Darkspear Trolls can't even protect their homeland against random incursions from a barely-sentient slave-race.

"Slave-race" pushed to such a frenzy that they were able to capture Thrall and his Orcish troops aswell right after razing a Human outpost. But again, this has nothing to do with the point.

1) You're speaking as if I mentioned some grand, hidden kingdom somewhere where thousands of HE's are just frolicking about and being amazing. I didn't -- I stipulated that, as a people estranged from their homeland, the number one thing on their minds is either a) returning to said home or, if this isn't feasible or acceptable to their sensibilities, b) finding a new home.

That would make sense if High Elves were, again, an actual people, united in their goals and convinctions. Guess what, they're not. They're divided in indipendent factions. What does that mean? That even if they don't return to Quel'Thalas, they don't need to find a new home either, because they can simply stick wherever they currently are. Some High Elves will stick to their lodges, others will stick somewhere else, the Silver Covenant will stick in Dalaran as they always did. If you don't bring them together, the necessity to find a new home for them all is non-existent.

And to the point of "not being independent of the Blood Elves" (...) the only thing I can say is that it's very likely that most of their perceived similarities stem almost entirely from 10 years of being half-assed by Blizzard -- not unlike most of the other "lessers" among the playable races (Worgen, Draenei pre-WoD, etc.)

No shit Blizzard "half-assed" them, they wrote an article in their encyclopedia explaining in detail why they have no culture by their own. There are "perceived similarities" for the mere fact that there are no differences to begin with. There are differences, but these are ideological and political, at best. In terms of culture, they're the same, they always were and probably always will since they lack the means to become something else.

Blaming Blizzard for something you don't appreciate doesn't change the point.

You can't very well say that the HE's are/were exiled, without conceding that they were also uprooted. The words are damn-near synonymous.

I didn't refer to "uprooted" in the sense of Blood Elves physically forcing them to go away, but more being "uprooted" by the lore, in the sense of defining an unique and indipendent identity for High Elves. All we got, instead, is High Elves constantly reminding how, despite their remarked distinction from Blood Elves, they consider Quel'Thalas their home to this day and are ready to fight alongside Blood Elves if that means protect it or avenge its people. This, coupled with Lor'themar open acceptance of any High Elf willing to return, basically kills any chance for High Elves to ever become a thing of their own.

Now, trying to cut off this potentially derailing discussion, I'll go back to the point of the post you quoted in the first place: High Elves has nothing to offer by themselves. Their culture, their lore, their background, everything that is worthy and interesting about them is intrinsically tied to Blood Elf lore. There's no escape from that.

Assuming how High Elves could be different when there's no basis for them to be different is arguing over baseless theories/speculation/headcanon, not the actual lore presented to us until now.

There are less Darkspear Trolls than High Elves.

Your source? Because defining numbers in WoW is quite tricky but High Elves are the only ones having an article explaning how they're few, scattered and without unity.

One thing is sure, Darkspear Trolls are quite united.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Using lore reasons on why high elves aren't playable is as unbiased as you can get, blizzard themselves gave reasons why. It's not about hurting peopled feelings because the story or playable race developed in a way they didn't want them too, it's just facts. The chances of high elves being introduced as a playable race yet again are small.

[The Iron Fist]

Your source? Because defining numbers in WoW is quite tricky but High Elves are the only ones having an article explaning how they're few, scattered and without unity.

One thing is sure, Darkspear Trolls are quite united.

Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos (Darkspear troll numbers -- almost eradicated by Murlocs haha), Warcraft 3: the Frozen Throne (High Elf defectors after Kael'thas goes mad/allies the Naga), and the Warcraft Tabletop RPG -- take your pick. If none of those are enough for you, consider all the times Blizzard has retconned the lore (ex: Vol'jin was a Witch Doctor and is now a Shadow Hunter).

- - - Updated - - -

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Using lore reasons on why high elves aren't playable is as unbiased as you can get, blizzard themselves gave reasons why. It's not about hurting peopled feelings because the story or playable race developed in a way they didn't want them too, it's just facts. The chances of high elves being introduced as a playable race yet again are small.

Granted, chances are small. However, Blizzard also said Pandaren were just a Samwise Didier drawing, that Goblins served the role better of being neutral than playable, and that they would never create a neutral race. They've changed their minds on many, many things over the years. Just look at how different the gameplay even is.

[Combatbutler]

Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos (Darkspear troll numbers -- almost eradicated by Murlocs haha), Warcraft 3: the Frozen Throne (High Elf defectors after Kael'thas goes mad/allies the Naga), and the Warcraft Tabletop RPG -- take your pick. If none of those are enough for you, consider all the times Blizzard has retconned the lore (ex: Vol'jin was a Witch Doctor and is now a Shadow Hunter).

The tabletop rpg are non canon, the high elf race as a whole was already being addressed by blizz before the release of bc and since then they have continued to loose people. The statement for the high elf "race"

In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense. High elves did not gather in any significant numbers, nor did they act as a coordinated whole. They are a very small group of individuals scattered all over the world. As such, they do not have common opinions or goals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture—only a past filled with glory and regret.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Warcraf...dia/High_Elves

High elves simply have absolutely nothing to offer, nightborne on the other hand are an entirely different matter

[Deleted]

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because there aren't enough of them don't know their lore. There are less Darkspear Trolls than High Elves.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because they are already in the game doesn't know their lore. Huge differences were shown during the Argent Tournament, The Battered Hilt Questline, and events surrounding the destruction of Theramore between Blood Elves and High Elves.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because the only visible difference is blue eyes are denying the facts. Every race in every expansion have their character models updated, including Blood Elves, to differentiate themselves.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because they would have already been added need only look at Demon Hunters and Pandaren to see anything can be added at any time.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because there are already too many elves doesn't understand the concept that what you don't want does not trump what other players do want. There are enough High Elf fan purists for Blizzard to accommodate them.

Anyone saying High Elves aren't possible because of any reason doesn't get that Blizzard can do whatever they damned well please. It's their IP and should they show the desire to tell a new story or retcon an old one, whether it be a good or bad idea, they very may well do so. See; Pandaren, Warlords of Draenor, Goblins being permanently neutral race or reforging the whole of Azeroth in Cataclysm.

These are just a few reasons why High Elves are possible, whether you'd like to admit it or not. This all coming from a guy who doesn't really care what race is or isn't added to the game.

1) The Darkspear Trolls have reclaimed their territory, have grown in numbers and in strength over time. They are not in the same situation as they were in the beginning of WoW lore, whereas High Elves are even worse off than when WoW lore was laid down.

2) Cultural differences matters very little when speaking gameplay.

3) There are not currently any playable races that are so close to each other, as High Elves and Blood Elves are, and simple model updates will not be enough to seperate those two completely like the current Elf races are. Oh, and fact is, the only visible difference between them is their eyes. You are denying facts.

4) While you are right, that that is a bad argument, I'd say that your argument is at least as bad. Just because they can add anything at any time, doesn't mean they will. If that was the case, well, it would only be a question of time before we have flying pig shits as gear, mounts, and, yeah, let's just say everything will be replaced by pig shits, because hey, they can add anything at any time.

5) What you don't understand is, what you want does not trump what other players want or might not want. I believe that the fans of High Elves are a vocal minority, as opposed to Pandarens, that were genuinely wanted by a large portion of the playerbase because of the awesome Pandaren heroes in WC3, but Blizzard didn't quite live up to the expectations surrounding Pandaren, as most people seem to have wanted Pandaren from WC3, but got a new and fresh take on it instead. I do not believe that there are enough fans, if there is, the amount of fans thinking this is a shit idea heavily outnumbers them. The old models are horrible anyway, just to mention the other High Elf models that aren't the Blood Elf ones.

6) Again, yes, they can do whatever they please with their game, but that doesn't mean they should. If they transformed WoW into a squad based Nascar racer because they pleased, the very definition of chaos would ensue. Just because it's their game, doesn't mean everything is up to debate, nor a possibility that it will be added.

This is just a few reasons why High Elves shouldn't be added, wether you like it or not. This is all coming from a guy who really doesn't want High Elves in WoW as it would be a waste of resources, however small the amount of resources spend might be, and simply no real addition to the game.