[BETA] Demonology Warlock Discussion

[Duckz0rs]

If it's only through gems and enchants that people try to reach a breakpoint, wouldn't that be a good thing? I wouldn't mind having to do some extra thinking and calculating instead of just mindlessly stacking mastery in everything with enchants and gems. Even if I'm just a normal/heroic scrub.

[Kirroth]

Question from someone who hasn't played Legion Demo yet, with Wild imps sitting around casting for 10 seconds, won't there be haste thresholds to cycle up to 3 groups of imps at a time rather than two and screw with all our stat prioritizes once we hit it?

In theory, yes Haste will have thresholds where the Wild Imps add another cast to their duration, which will increase the damage per SS spent on HoG. In practice, those thresholds will be far from the precise numbers of the old Haste breakpoints. The +50% Haste buff from DemEmp will play a major role, and there's going to be a lot of variance in exactly when that gets applied.

Do fight mechanics make you move or cast a utility spell after HoG? Do you follow HoG with Call Dreadstalkers and then DemEmp? Even if you do follow HoG with DemEmp, what small delays in latency and reaction time will you see? Even under the most ideal circumstances, more Haste gives you a bigger window to get your DemEmp applied and still get that extra Fel Firebolt in their duration. And aside from the Wild Imps, more Haste is always shortening Doom's duration and Shadow Bolt's cast time, which means it's always increasing your resource generation.

So I suspect instead of sharp breakpoints where the value of Haste drops past a very specific number, we're more likely to see fuzzy thresholds where the value of Haste spikes up and then returns to normal scaling.

[Jessicka]

While I agree with you that it's unlikely, I still think it'd be brilliant on the part of the devs to include a final "partial" fel firebolt in the despawn script for our wild imps to prevent the return of haste breakpoints.

Not going to happen, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that ... I would be really impressed if it did.

Do Imps not still have the fixed number of casts that they have on Live? Tooltip says they cast 10.

[Zinnin]

Do Imps not still have the fixed number of casts that they have on Live? Tooltip says they cast 10.

Which tooltip says they cast 10?

[Jessicka]

Which tooltip says they cast 10?

This one. Wild Imps I presume it's a relic though since it's still referring to how it operates on live. So it's no longer the case?

[Baconeggcheese]

Can't check right now obv but it'd completely defeat the purpose of haste / half the purpose of demonic empowerment if they had a fixed number of casts so I'd be surprised.

They'd end up blowing their load in the first half of their duration and then just standing there which I don't recall them ever doing.

[Zinnin]

This one. Wild Imps I presume it's a relic though since it's still referring to how it operates on live. So it's no longer the case?

Yea that's a relic, Hand of Gul'dan now lists the functionality of Wild Imps; which is that they have a set 12 second duration.

[Woz]

Since Beta is officially upon us this thread will be changed slightly from the "pre-Beta" iteration to a full blown Beta thread. I'll include a few shortcut links to things relevant to Beta:

General Talent Calculator

PvP Talent Calculator

Artifact Talent Tree

Item Sets
Legacy of Azj'Aqir
Vestments of the Black Harvest

Legendaries (ooo shiny):
Pillars of the Dark Portal
Sin'dorei Spite
Sephuz's Secret
Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus

Kazzak's Final Curse
Recurrent Ritual
Wilfred's Sigil of Superior Summoning

Legendaries NOT available yet:
Fatebender
Timeshifters
Norgannon's Foresight



If anyone has anything else that should be listed here (including any video overviews, relevant theorycrafting links, spreadsheets, etc) PM me or post them here so I can add them to the 'master list' that is in the original post.

[Kirroth]

Hmm. Looking at the list of legendary items here, and in the other threads, an idea occurs.

Afflic and Destro both have 4 spec-specific legendary items. The slots they fill are ring, waist, wrist, [other]. This list has 3 for Demo; ring, waist, [other]. So where's Demo's wrist legendary? I think it's already there, just mistaken for a cross-spec item. If Sin'dorei Spite was Demo specific it would fill out the pattern, balance the number per spec, and also remove the potential slot conflict Afflic and Destro would otherwise have. So I'm putting my money on that being the case.

[Woz]

Hmm. Looking at the list of legendary items here, and in the other threads, an idea occurs.

Afflic and Destro both have 4 spec-specific legendary items. The slots they fill are ring, waist, wrist, [other]. This list has 3 for Demo; ring, waist, [other]. So where's Demo's wrist legendary? I think it's already there, just mistaken for a cross-spec item. If Sin'dorei Spite was Demo specific it would fill out the pattern, balance the number per spec, and also remove the potential slot conflict Afflic and Destro would otherwise have. So I'm putting my money on that being the case.

I'd say it's likely the case as well however you can still spec Supremacy for the other specs so....for now Demo is minus one legendary unless I missed one.

[Shifterstorm]

So for the Demo Talent "Grimoire of Synergy" it lists a 100% proc chance granting either your demon or yourself 30% increased damage for 15sec. Does this rotate? IE You gain 30% more damage for 15sec, then your demon gets 30% more dmg for 15sec , ect ect ect.?

[Kirroth]

So for the Demo Talent "Grimoire of Synergy" it lists a 100% proc chance granting either your demon or yourself 30% increased damage for 15sec. Does this rotate? IE You gain 30% more damage for 15sec, then your demon gets 30% more dmg for 15sec , ect ect ect.?

No, because there's a fairly long hidden cooldown before it can proc again. Also, be aware that for Legion Demo, you and your demon pet are only about half your DPS. The other half is the Dreadstalker and Fel Imp minion summons, and GoSyn doesn't buff those.

[Shifterstorm]

No, because there's a fairly long hidden cooldown before it can proc again. Also, be aware that for Legion Demo, you and your demon pet are only about half your DPS. The other half is the Dreadstalker and Fel Imp minion summons, and GoSyn doesn't buff those.

Interesting.

Guess I will be picking Grimoire of Service instead. I really want to have the felguard.

[Woz]

No, because there's a fairly long hidden cooldown before it can proc again. Also, be aware that for Legion Demo, you and your demon pet are only about half your DPS. The other half is the Dreadstalker and Fel Imp minion summons, and GoSyn doesn't buff those.

It's actually an RPPM proc still, not an ICD. Should still probably be around the same as it was before, around 1.33 RPPM.

[bio347]

It's actually an RPPM proc still, not an ICD. Should still probably be around the same as it was before, around 1.33 RPPM.

It lists the proc information right in the tooltip now. It seems that most things do in Legion.

GoSyn is 2 RPPM. That's up from what it is on live, but as was said it's contributing less now too.

[Woz]

It lists the proc information right in the tooltip now. It seems that most things do in Legion.

GoSyn is 2 RPPM. That's up from what it is on live, but as was said it's contributing less now too.

O, RIP. I didn't even notice that at all.

Well...now I know!

[Deleted]

It lists the proc information right in the tooltip now. It seems that most things do in Legion.

GoSyn is 2 RPPM. That's up from what it is on live, but as was said it's contributing less now too.

well, while it doesnt affect your imps and dreadstalkers, it still affect stuff like implosion(afaik), demonbolt and doom and demonbolt should be our highest source of dmg, and if im not mistaken on live it only had a chance to proc, now it has a 100% chance to proc and its 30% not 15%, also the dmg contrubution from the player is also higher than i expected(prolly get around 25-30% from demonbolt alone if im not mistaken) from the parses ive seen, so this might actually be a slight buff compared to live and should result in about a 5-10% dmg increase overall in legion, not sure what it gives your overall on live.

[Zinnin]

I've been working on a Demonology / Warlock addon for awhile now, I think its sturdy enough for people to try it out. I would love some feedback on it from people that are in the Beta. zPets

[Jessicka]

I've been working on a Demonology / Warlock addon for awhile now, I think its sturdy enough for people to try it out. I would love some feedback on it from people that are in the Beta. zPets

For all the concerns raised, even before the new Demonology was announced, about the UI not being able to properly support a pet spec and so becoming over-reliant on addons; it falls to a Blizzard QA to produce that very addon...

There is so much facepalm going on here. And people complain that player feedback isn't taken on board.

[Baconeggcheese]

For all the concerns raised, even before the new Demonology was announced, about the UI not being able to properly support a pet spec and so becoming over-reliant on addons; it falls to a Blizzard QA to produce that very addon...

There is so much facepalm going on here. And people complain that player feedback isn't taken on board.

Blizzard actually added pet tracking timers to the player frame already, his looks like its just piggybacking off of that to make it more visible since the default one uses those tiny circles that are incredibly hard to see.

Elvui has basically the same thing built in already as well.