Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Eliseus]

You seem awfully obsessed with someone you don't seem to like.

Even going so far as to try to slander & attack him with your signature.

I think I'll report you to the mods.

Interesting you concluded that when the guy has openly attacked everyone even his competition. Thanks for letting me know you are reporting me? Have fun

[Marakesh]

They claim they got DDoS'd during their initial "launch", but nobody knows how true that is. The whole project was shady from the beginning.

I do know (from following the wowservers reddit page) that there are several pirate servers being DDoS'd (and one has shut down permanently because of it.)

I find it odd that you all know more about private servers than I do! I actually have played on a couple in the past year and you all seem to hate the very existence of any form of legacy.

[TCGamer]

I find it odd that you all know more about private servers than I do! I actually have played on a couple in the past year and you all seem to hate the very existence of any form of legacy.

I started keeping up with the wowservers reddit when the whole Nost situation went down. Helps to know what your competition is thinking.

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Interesting you concluded that when the guy has openly attacked everyone even his competition. Thanks for letting me know you are reporting me? Have fun

Also, thank you for the death threats. I will be forwarding them to the authorities.

[Gavan]

I started keeping up with the wowservers reddit when the whole Nost situation went down. Helps to know what your competition is thinking.

I still find it odd that you consider people doing something that doesn't affect you in anyway and are trying to participate and use a product that doesn't exist any longer competition.

I mean, a Classic PS competes with a Classic PS, but the only thing that they're pirating from Blizzard is WoWs IP.

[Gadzooks]

I see it as different from Pristine Servers in that Pristine Servers try to provide a 'fresh start' for players, with slow leveling and no hand holding.

The proposal I wrote is more like an expanded version of the Starter Edition, on currently live servers, that gives players a platform to raid and experience Vanilla/TBC/Wrath content at the appropriate difficulty.

Essentially the biggest problem I see with Legacy server proposals is that once you let players play at Vanilla, then whose to say that they can't add TBC and WOTLK servers? So in my attempt to solve that problem, I proposed "why not all of it at once"?

I know it's not a perfect solution, but it's an idea at least.

I've given some thought to the pristine server concept - and they could get pretty close to a legacy experience with it. The servers already exist - they could merge some of the low pop servers to make room for 4 or so (2 pve 2pvp each region), and still use the current game, all the way up to Legion, but just turn some things off. It won't be easy, but definitely not as costly as starting from scratch with legacy servers. The biggest problem with the current build is the Cata revamp - as much as I don't have any interest in legacy servers, a "pristine" server would be nice if they could bring back the Onyxia quest chain, Naxx, and the AQ gate opening. The could use timewalking and phasing tech too, to bring back certain things in the game. It's still a lot of work - but again, less than starting from scratch.

But I already got the expected response in this thread over ideas like that, so I really can't be bothered to discuss it again, in depth. I just hope Blizzard doesn't get the same attitude either, although god knows the pro-legacy crowd is doing all they can to make the devs develop a "fuck off" attitude over it, with their tantrums and refusal to compromise.

Fuck 'em. If they won't be reasonable, what good are they? Let them sit in the corner and cry.

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[/video]

Regarding the legality of private servers and the bullshit of blizzard removing Nost.

That video is about as accurate or meaningful as the 9-11 conspiracy videos.

ie., it's amusing, but utterly full of shit.

[Vineri]

I've given some thought to the pristine server concept - and they could get pretty close to a legacy experience with it.

<SNIP>

But I already got the expected response in this thread over ideas like that, so I really can't be bothered to discuss it again, in depth.

Pristine servers are a waste of time and resources. It's not what anyone is asking for.

If you can't be bothered to "discuss" it again, then my thanks goes out to you.

[Gadzooks]

If Pristine realms restores some of what makes MMOs feel like MMOs again, sure I'd give it a go.

I think you hit on something very important here, and tied with Ion's comments in the dev video, makes me wonder if they see the same thing (finally), and are looking at what the real solution here is - making legacy servers as a branch off the real game, with it's associated hurdles and costs, OR - rebuilding the existing game (and not in a Cata way) to make the older content viable, enjoyable, and populated again, so new players can get a "vanilla" experience, and old players can start over and still have fun.

Clearly Blizzard's description of pristine servers is a starting off point, and the concept needs a lot of refining and design. But it's interesting. Could they remake the existing older content to where it's as good an experience as a legacy server? That's the discussion that needs to happen. That might be what they want to talk to the Nost people about - what were your users *doing*? Rushing to the end game, or taking their time and enjoying the 1-60 game? In other words, the meeting will be a data dump, for Blizzard to see what people want, and try to give it to them.

As much as I like LFR/LFG, this might be the beginning of the end for it. It was a great experiment, but perhaps it's time to remove it - or restrict it to current expansion content, and time walking events.

If I were 20 again, and looking at this idea, I'd be into it - be able to start a guild in vanilla 2.0 content (cata vanilla), and play with that guild all the way to Legion. That's a LOT of game right there.

But I know the legacy crowd will dismiss this instantly, they're not capable of thinking past "I want!"

[Vineri]

I think you hit on something very important here, and tied with Ion's comments in the dev video, makes me wonder if they see the same thing (finally), and are looking at what the real solution here is - making legacy servers as a branch off the real game, with it's associated hurdles and costs, OR - rebuilding the existing game (and not in a Cata way) to make the older content viable, enjoyable, and populated again, so new players can get a "vanilla" experience, and old players can start over and still have fun.

Clearly Blizzard's description of pristine servers is a starting off point, and the concept needs a lot of refining and design. But it's interesting. Could they remake the existing older content to where it's as good an experience as a legacy server? That's the discussion that needs to happen. That might be what they want to talk to the Nost people about - what were your users *doing*? Rushing to the end game, or taking their time and enjoying the 1-60 game? In other words, the meeting will be a data dump, for Blizzard to see what people want, and try to give it to them.

As much as I like LFR/LFG, this might be the beginning of the end for it. It was a great experiment, but perhaps it's time to remove it - or restrict it to current expansion content, and time walking events.

If I were 20 again, and looking at this idea, I'd be into it - be able to start a guild in vanilla 2.0 content (cata vanilla), and play with that guild all the way to Legion. That's a LOT of game right there.

But I know the legacy crowd will dismiss this instantly, they're not capable of thinking past "I want!"

If you think simply playing retail WoW up to level 60 is the "Vanilla Experience", I'd say you never actually played Vanilla to quality a response. The world is "Broken" via Cataclysm. Mobs that once had unique combat abilities were all nerfed to tank/spank, AOE, etc. Elite mobs gone. Quests dumbed down. Dungeons dumbed down. Skill trees ruined. Class roles ruined. Etc.

There is no Vanilla 2.0 with pristine. It's Vanilla negative 2.0.

Pristine is not what anyone was asking for. If that is what you want, make a new thread for this (and watch it disappear into oblivion).

[Gavan]

I think you hit on something very important here, and tied with Ion's comments in the dev video, makes me wonder if they see the same thing (finally), and are looking at what the real solution here is - making legacy servers as a branch off the real game, with it's associated hurdles and costs, OR - rebuilding the existing game (and not in a Cata way) to make the older content viable, enjoyable, and populated again, so new players can get a "vanilla" experience, and old players can start over and still have fun.

Clearly Blizzard's description of pristine servers is a starting off point, and the concept needs a lot of refining and design. But it's interesting. Could they remake the existing older content to where it's as good an experience as a legacy server? That's the discussion that needs to happen. That might be what they want to talk to the Nost people about - what were your users *doing*? Rushing to the end game, or taking their time and enjoying the 1-60 game? In other words, the meeting will be a data dump, for Blizzard to see what people want, and try to give it to them.

As much as I like LFR/LFG, this might be the beginning of the end for it. It was a great experiment, but perhaps it's time to remove it - or restrict it to current expansion content, and time walking events.

If I were 20 again, and looking at this idea, I'd be into it - be able to start a guild in vanilla 2.0 content (cata vanilla), and play with that guild all the way to Legion. That's a LOT of game right there.

But I know the legacy crowd will dismiss this instantly, they're not capable of thinking past "I want!"

Honestly, there are a multitude of dismissal reasons. You'd see the following, some are etchy but folks are holding onto them.


Things I see as a real problem:
1) Mechanics and classes are drastically different.
2) Talent trees and skills
3) Cata quests and world

Things other folks have mentioned that would likely still be in the game that some hate (not entirely sure why on all):
1) Transmog (some have cited PVP for this one)
2) Updated graphics (real nostaliga folks have a love of the old graphics)


There are more, but these are the big 4 that I see in threads all over quite a bit. None of them are resolved with Pristine.

[Typhoria]

100% this. Our first Nef kill was with a dps warrior as MT, because horde had to stance dance the fear away and our normal MT was shitty with stance dancing.

For PvE the whole argument for balance is moot, unless your raid is more of an UBRS group.

=P Sounded like your guild needed some shaman. Tremor totem was sooo good back then.

[Gavan]

=P Sounded like your guild needed some shaman. Tremor totem was sooo good back then.

Likely Alliance. Shammy and Pali were faction specific in Classic.

But Dwarf priests had fear ward, I think. Which was better, but had a long CD.

[Uurdz]

for me, pristine servers miss the talent trees that I miss and the slower gear progression. Epics are the norm greens are now greys, blues are now greens and legendaries are no longer legendary.

I care about gear. I care about a sense of accomplishment that comes from getting gear and I care about Immersion. It was hard to get gear in legacy so it provided a sense accomplishment when you got it. Sometimes that required farming rep for a long time but it felt like a more meaningful experience. It reminds me of cyler(sp) in the matrix when he talks about knowing that the meat he is eating not being real. I don't care my sense of accomplishment is in a video game.

I don't get that from retail and sadly I don't think legion is going to fix that, based on what I've seen so far. I want it to! But I doubt it will. Because I've lost this (haven't felt it since wrath) I want legacy servers so I can experience it again

[Typhoria]

Honestly, there are a multitude of dismissal reasons. You'd see the following, some are etchy but folks are holding onto them.
Things I see as a real problem:
1) Mechanics and classes are drastically different.
2) Talent trees and skills
3) Cata quests and world

Things other folks have mentioned that would likely still be in the game that some hate (not entirely sure why on all):
1) Transmog (some have cited PVP for this one)
2) Updated graphics (real nostaliga folks have a love of the old graphics)

There are more, but these are the big 4 that I see in threads all over quite a bit. None of them are resolved with Pristine.

I wonder how the game would go if they could scale everything down to 60 for all forms of content, but allowed where the newer content was superior.

So after AQ/Naxx the next progression would be Kara then TK.
After UBRS/Dire Maul people would go to TBC dungeons then TBC heroics then LK content and so forth.
Quests could serve the same purpose, after vanilla quests people could do TBC quests for gear progression then Wrath.

Maybe allow a toggle for cata/vanilla in terms of how the world is set so people could go help friends if needed.

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Likely Alliance. Shammy and Pali were faction specific in Classic.

But Dwarf priests had fear ward, I think. Which was better, but had a long CD.

He said horde, which is why I was confused when he talked about stance dancing being required.

[Gadzooks]

Honestly, there are a multitude of dismissal reasons. You'd see the following, some are etchy but folks are holding onto them.


Things I see as a real problem:
1) Mechanics and classes are drastically different.
2) Talent trees and skills
3) Cata quests and world

Things other folks have mentioned that would likely still be in the game that some hate (not entirely sure why on all):
1) Transmog (some have cited PVP for this one)
2) Updated graphics (real nostaliga folks have a love of the old graphics)


There are more, but these are the big 4 that I see in threads all over quite a bit. None of them are resolved with Pristine.

It's not perfect, but it's a start - and better than nothing. The idea isn't to recreate vanilla wow, as much as fix the game so legacy servers aren't needed. But you see the knee jerk responses. They don't even put any thought into them, like you did. I agree with your problems, too - the cata revamp is a huge problem for them.

And, like I pointed out before, printing servers are a way to to SHOW Blizzard how much interest there is...or isn't. Which is probably why the usual suspects in this thread don't want it, because they know they've been pulling numbers out of their asses.

But the point is, I'm starting to understand what Blizzard might be attempting, but the usual suspects are trying to keep the discussion from happening, so the end result will be nothing. I'm not saying it's perfect, or even possible, but it's better than the Wall Of No, something the legacy crowd refuses to acknowledge.

[Vineri]

It's not perfect, but it's a start - and better than nothing. The idea isn't to recreate vanilla wow, as much as fix the game so legacy servers aren't needed. But you see the knee jerk responses. They don't even put any thought into them, like you did. I agree with your problems, too - the cata revamp is a huge problem for them.

And, like I pointed out before, printing servers are a way to to SHOW Blizzard how much interest there is...or isn't. Which is probably why the usual suspects in this thread don't want it, because they know they've been pulling numbers out of their asses.

But the point is, I'm starting to understand what Blizzard might be attempting, but the usual suspects are trying to keep the discussion from happening, so the end result will be nothing. I'm not saying it's perfect, or even possible, but it's better than the Wall Of No, something the legacy crowd refuses to acknowledge.

Pristine servers will be a failure. You even acknowledge that the Cataclysm revamp is a problem. What is Blizzard to do then, recreate the old maps? Why not just use their older legacy software for this. Everything was ruined in Cataclysm (slowly before, but greatly in Cataclysm), I guess they should fix that too. Fixing means going back to Legacy. Or are they going to fix every other aspect as well?

It's what you do, to garner support for a side that really has no support (ala Pristine).

Nobody is trying to prevent discussion. They are simply pointing out how ludicrous it is to side with Blizzard on a fruitless project that nobody wants (Pristine).

There is no wall of "NO". Blizzard is still undecided, and Devs reverted back to the original stance until a decision can be made, because Devs are not qualified to make business decisions.


Comments are color coded to reflect responses to specific points.

[Tackhisis]

Regarding the legality of private servers and the bullshit of blizzard removing Nost.

I have already debunked that bullshit, probably in this same thread.

[Eliseus]

No thanks to pristine servers. I don't even think Blizzard wants to do them. I think it was a way to try and compromise if many people wanted it. It wihout a doubt would be less work than a Legacy server. The problem is not many people want it.

[Gavan]

FYI, announcement on a meeting time may be hammered out by Monday or Tuesday. Mike M. is buried with Overwatch's release and the other 3 B-Net patches/releases from end of April through end of May.

Info comming early next week. When I hear/read, I'll post.

[karatakor]

This is good news!
For more info go see PC Invasion interview with Mark Kern "Vanilla World of Warcraft update interview with Mark Kern".

[Eleccybubb]

Talk about obsession the guy that was proud of posting reports to blizzard about nostalrius

The guy that comes everytime here only to be toxic.

Amazing how hard some people try

That's all the poster has been pretty much doing. Granted some of the arguments against private servers were valid at first then just turned into a "I'm gonna report other servers to blizzard and people on this forum to mods" bait attitude from this person.