Obesity could be a contagious condition that spreads like a stomach bug

[Noradin]

This is ignorant as fuck. Here's the original study: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture05414.html
It's in one of the best scientific journals, and has been cited in nearly 4,000 scientific publications. Next time you think you know better than the world's leading scientists, you might want to think a little harder.

Yes, that one says exactly what I did tell you in my post.
Maybe you should read it?

[Illuminance]

Your post:

Great so they have it backwards and then they get lauded for being stupid?

So they overfeed mice who are healthy (and thus get overfed) and mice who lack microbes (and thus cannot digest their food properly) and then they discover that healing the sick ones (by reintroducing the missing microbes) makes those susceptible to being overfed, too?
What great geniuses, they have discovered that if you make it so that an organism cannot digest its food it is harder to overfeed! Who would have thought!
Now we have a way to fight obesity without eating less: We just make people sick and they will get thin despite eating!

What actually happened (if you read the paper I linked):

They move microbes from obese mice, or lean mice (lean being normal) into lean mice. The microbes from the fat mice caused the normal mice to get fatter. Microbes from normal mice didn't affect mouse weight. The change is attributed to fat mice having microbes that are better at harvesting energy. It has nothing to do with giving sick mice microbes to cure them. They controlled for the effect of giving them microbes in the first place. It's figure C from the paper: http://imgur.com/ZinacDf

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Is that the study from the OP? I mean, this study is a really nice one even though this is well known for people studying gut microbiota, but it does not mention anything about spores and stuff. Ofcourse transplanting microbiota that can harvest energy more sufficiently to an individual with an uncolonized gut is going to cause the receiving individual to harvest energy more sufficiently and thus increase the chance of obesity.

Nah, an older study, which I think Noradin is misinterpreting

[Rennadrel]

Who let the shitposter back on here.

Obesity isn't contagious, that is some of the biggest fucking bullshit I have ever heard.

[dextersmith]

Let us celebrate by gorging! It's not the fried chicken that makes people gross!

[Deleted]

I keep my distance from fatties anyway.

[Masark]

Calories in - Calories out = Weight gain or loss

It's not that hard to understand. This is just people trying to blame their self failures on something else.

Now try using your brain and realizing that "calories in" is not in fact what is printed on the package and involves a whole host of factors, including the gut flora, which is what this article/study is talking about.

[crakerjack]

I love the fake strawmen that are constructed for purposes of... just being an ass I guess? Literally have never seen anyone who was overweight blame it on anyone, or anything. Fat people know they're fat. They don't need mouthbreathers screaming at them. People who go "Just don't eat as much and exercise fatty its not hard" are probably the same ones that tell people who are depressed to "suck it up, we all get sad no reason to cry about it".
There are so many contributing factors to being overweight, economic/cultural/mental wellness etc.

Give me a break, like putting on some shorts and shirt and going for a walk is so god damn hard. Dieting isn't fucking hard, it's that people flip their diet 360 degrees and can't sustain it. Unless you have some thyroid issue that makes it so you can't lose weight, you're just being a victim. I have family members that are fat, but I can't be there to help them because they're on the other side of this country. Fat people are all alike and they share the same traits. They attempt to make a change but they try too hard and as a result give up. They indulge at any hour of the day including right before bed. They don't take into consideration the macros they're consuming. Majority of their macros are carbs and they aren't complex, they're shitty fast carbs that make you morbidly obese. The reason why I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for fat people is because they use every excuse in the book. Getting skinny is FUCKING EASY. It just takes time and dedication.

I was an athlete my whole life until I turned 14. Quick club soccer and got deep into WoW/raiding. Come my junior year in high school, I'm not longer 5'2" @ 98 lbs. I'm now 5'5" @ 205 lbs. I didn't like how I was semi out of breath going up flights of stairs. I didn't like that I was sweating while barely moving. I knew how good it felt to be fit, so I made a change. Now I'm 5'5" @ 160 lbs @ 14% body fat. I'm not super skinny and cut, but I'm healthy and I'm fit. How did I do it? I had a plan. I didn't wing anything nor did I take chances. I stuck to what I knew and it paid off. I didn't try to make too many tweaks to my diet and sure as hell didn't go 110% in the gym. I paced myself and as a result I've been sticking to it for 7+ years.

If someone is fat it's because they're choosing to be. Don't spin it off as something else, they're lazy and that's it.

[OreoLover]

Fat people are all alike and they share the same traits.

The reason why I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for fat people is because they use every excuse in the book. Getting skinny is FUCKING EASY. It just takes time and dedication.

If someone is fat it's because they're choosing to be. Don't spin it off as something else, they're lazy and that's it.

No they aren't.

No they don't. Time and dedication =/= fucking easy.

That isn't necessarily true or even likely. No, you're wrong.

[Notter]

I agree with Tennisace, we should euthanize bacteria.

[bloodmoth13]

See.. obese people have a buttload of fat. Literally.

Can bacteria magically produce matter out of nothing? Either its BS and those obese people are fat cause they eat too much, or you just solved the energy crisis and we can just harvest these bacteria and make them produce fat in huge barrels which we can then use as fuel. Oh yea and solve world hunger too.. yum yum fat for everyone!

Errr it might just cause your body to absorb more matter than it excretes, so what healthy people shit out, obese people store as fat, but thats just a theory.

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I agree with Tennisace, we should euthanize bacteria.

Cure to obesity is to drink bleach in order to kill the gut bacteria that makes you fat

(please nobody take this seriously)

[belfpala]

I can't GAIN weight. And I burn hotter than most people -- I usually temp at about 100F. Guess I got the right bacteria and should go kiss some fat girls?

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Errr it might just cause your body to absorb more matter than it excretes, so what healthy people shit out, obese people store as fat, but thats just a theory.

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Cure to obesity is to drink bleach in order to kill the gut bacteria that makes you fat

(please nobody take this seriously)

Are you working for the anti-diarrhea medication industry?

(also a joke)

[shise]

I am not ignoring the fact that many cases are a clinic condition, but a very high percentage of obesity cases are a matter of a lack of nutritional education.

When you see people buying food full saturated fat, sugar, cheap ass oil, an incredible amount of E´s... well, no matter how much you eat per day, you´ll eventually get either fat or develop health issues.

[bloodmoth13]

No they aren't.

No they don't. Time and dedication =/= fucking easy.

That isn't necessarily true or even likely. No, you're wrong.

You dont really have to put in heaps of effort to get skinny, that just depends on how fast you want to lose weight, but in all honesty, its really fucking easy, in fact its possibly one the easiest things in the world, which is to simply not consume callories.

Well the action of reducing input is easy anyway, dealing with the stomach pains that come along with it on the other hand may not be so easy, and if you expect to lose weight immediately then you will be disappointed, to speed it up you must burn more callories.

so all you really need to do is have some self control, and stop eating shit food.

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I am not ignoring the fact that many cases are a clinic condition, but a very high percentage of obesity cases are a matter of a lack of nutritional education.

When you see people buying food full saturated fat, sugar, cheap ass oil, an incredible amount of E´s... well, no matter how much you eat per day, you´ll eventually get either fat or develop health issues.

Yeah pretty much this. Most peoples main form of education unfortunately happens to be the media, and trash food like energy drinks advertise the idea that they give you more energy to do shit, but for fatties, its just going to make them more gluggy and slow.
a better education system for eating healthy could help...

[bloodmoth13]

I can't GAIN weight. And I burn hotter than most people -- I usually temp at about 100F. Guess I got the right bacteria and should go kiss some fat girls?

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Are you working for the anti-diarrhea medication industry?

(also a joke)

Cover has been blown
*Hits eject button*

[belfpala]

Cover has been blown
*Hits eject button*

I don't let much get by me.

Wait.. 1003)*&!9 what's the code for the eject button?

[Sunnydruid]

Why the fuck can't people accept the fact that they are obese because of their lifestyle. I don't get why people try to find some underlying reason for something to be able to make an excuse as to why they are lazy fucks.

I do however feel bad for the people who take medication and it causes a slowed metabolism or they have a thyroid problem. However a thyroid problem is going to cause you to gain 300lbs overnight. I had extremely bad asthma when I was a kid and back then the meds weren't as evolved as they are today, a lot of the medication I took had negative side effects such as a slowed metabolism which did cause SOME weight gain. However as a kid I just went outside every day and it was like I never even gained the weight.


EAT LESS
MOVE AROUND MORE
STOP MAKING EXCUSES
STOP ENABLING THIS KIND OF LIFESTYLE BY CREATING EXCUSES. YOU'RE FAT, CHANGE IT.

[bloodmoth13]

In my country we are already boambarded with information what considers "healthy eating". And then there is the reality: Schools / kindergardens have to deal with lower budgets, thus shitty food. Parents are lazy, so they give their kids money to buy food on the way to school. And all the education goes out of the window because companies have a huge budget for commercials, target the audience not with the health angle but the way of life and fun angle.

And then there is that bit that when you are hungry and are "treating" yourself, when Mc Donalds offers the choice between an apple or sweets and a salad or fried with your burger, the people go mostly for fries and sweets.

So..the thing that you explain as "it is very easy, just don't eat" is actually the hardest bit. If it wasn't, the world wouldn't be getting more obese.

Yeah the strangest part is that obese people tend to also be malnourished, its a fucked up situation when the food that is eaten is so toxic that eating enough to make you fat wont even give you enough basic nutrients to function properly.

I honestly wouldnt mind seeing a junk food tax accompanied by a healthy food subsidy so that people can afford to eat healthy. its not a good situation when 'treats' are a staple part of the human diet...

[Noradin]

Your post:



What actually happened (if you read the paper I linked):

They move microbes from obese mice, or lean mice (lean being normal) into lean mice. The microbes from the fat mice caused the normal mice to get fatter. Microbes from normal mice didn't affect mouse weight. The change is attributed to fat mice having microbes that are better at harvesting energy. It has nothing to do with giving sick mice microbes to cure them. They controlled for the effect of giving them microbes in the first place. It's figure C from the paper: http://imgur.com/ZinacDf

Yes, this is exaclty as I said.
They had mice who had ineffective microbes and mice who had more effective microbes in their guts.
Feeding the amount the ineffective ones needed to keep healthy to the effective ones automatically overfed the latter. (Who would have thought!)
Then they gave the effective microbes to both groups and kept the feeding the same, now they effectively overfed both groups. (What wounderous discovery, what a sensation! Where is that Nobel Price?)

So essentially, they helped the mice to be able to subsist on less food, but kept the food supply the same, when that lead to overfeeding they called it a "disease" when it should have been called an improvement instead. It is just that they do not feed them the right amount.

Then in reaction to that they publish a stupenously idiotic article how "being obese isn't your fault for eating too much, no it is that stomach bug disease someone infected you with, nothing you can do."

The point is: We knew for ages that microbes in our gut determine how effectively we can digest food and what we get out of it. We also knew just as long that those microbes are interchanged between organisms. How do you think babies get them, and why do you think they should not eat raw food? Because they have low stomach acid so necessary microbes can pass through easier (harmful ones, too, unfortunately, but that is a necessary evil).
We also know since shortly after we first used penicillin that those microbes can be restored later in live -- by exchanging them with other people.
Everyone who knows of lactose intolerance knows there are different compositions of such microbes.

So what exactly makes this article newsworthy?
Yes they found a group of mice with more effective microbiota than another group had. That's it.
Everything else is old news and presented in a misleading way.

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Now try using your brain and realizing that "calories in" is not in fact what is printed on the package and involves a whole host of factors, including the gut flora, which is what this article/study is talking about.

Yes, but they are presenting it in a misleading way.
If you get more effective at digesting food because you acquired more effective microbiota, then the right reaction is to adjust your eating habits, not to call it a "disease" and possibly (stupidly) treating it with something that kills them all of (which would of course make you very lean, because you would end up incapable of digesting a lot of food and get the runs from all kinds of things you could eat just fine previously).
Comparing this with a disease is idiotic.

[Deleted]

There is way more to the epidemic than this. Stop spreading false information.

There's not. Just eat right and take care of yourself. Just have fruit for breakfast, some eggs for lunch and veg + meat for dinner, you will lose a shitload of weight in no time. Stop snacking on random shit that you don't need, don't drink sugary shit that pollutes your body, stick to water/tea/low sugar juice.

It's so fucking basic it's unreal, sadly people who are obese have no self control generally. Exercise when you have your diet down and you will be a skinny guy/girl in no time, it's actually THAT EASY. It sucks dieting and eating right sometimes when there's awesome food around, but if you don't want to be a fat person it's the price you pay. Obviously some people store fat differently, so you can have a skinny guy who can eat lots of shite and a fat guy who might seemingly not eat a lot. But there's always a way, just need to put your mind to it.

[Noradin]

I can't GAIN weight. And I burn hotter than most people -- I usually temp at about 100F. Guess I got the right bacteria and should go kiss some fat girls?

No, you obviously take in all those calorines into your body and use them up (which statistically shortens you lifespan I'm sad to say).
It has probably nothing to do with the microbiota in your gut but it sure is about your metabolism.