1. #1
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    Talents - Passives vs Abilities

    Simple question, would a DPS toon that picked all passives for talents be less effective than one that picked abilities to press?

  2. #2
    Good question, specially since tuning is kot yet finnished.

  3. #3
    Brewmaster TheCount's Avatar
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    I feel like a more passive heavy toon would be more dps-ey then one that has a lot of abilities. Really it depends on the player though, I know thats what gets brought up anytime a question like this get asked but I think its the best answer.

    Passive heavy characters will have steady to high dps depending on the player and how they allocate stats and a basic rotation
    Ability heavy characters will have low to really high dps depending on the players ability to master all the abilities and advance rotation

  4. #4
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post

    Passive heavy characters will have steady to high dps depending on the player and how they allocate stats and a basic rotation
    Ability heavy characters will have low to really high dps depending on the players ability to master all the abilities and advance rotation
    WHile this makes sense, we will have to wait for tunning to be completed to see how this actually plays out per class.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by creb99 View Post
    Simple question, would a DPS toon that picked all passives for talents be less effective than one that picked abilities to press?
    Without final tuning I can't really say, however I am pretty sure the best answer is "it depends on the fight."

    If you'll notice the talents are actually structured around AoE, Cleave, Single Target and Mobility. Basically you're not expected to stick to just one single talent load-out. Soon enough we should see addons come out that can save talent load-outs and in some cases possibly auto-swap you based on the fight to what's optimal.

    That being said there's a lot of room to breathe in there so if you have one playstyle you like more than the others you should have a load-out that's tailored to that and you can just park yourself in without majorly gimping yourself.

    If you're in a raid guild though expect to change talents and possibly even specs from boss to trash, especially if your guild is closer to the bleeding edge.

  6. #6
    It should be close, but I don't mind if active talents sim a little bit higher when rotation is 100% perfect (which is hard to do).
    Active talents should be more rewarding. Players shouldnt be forced to play a 3-4 button spec and sim higher then people who are maximizing their dps through hard rotations.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Chain Chungus's Avatar
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    Passives might be easier to maximize but certain abilities can fill in gaps where your class has a weakness. For example, storm bolt on a warrior: an extra ranged attack is really useful especially when dodging fire and the like.

  8. #8
    I guess, that in best case the whole intention of pruning - is to make all talents active. Currently I prefer passive talents. No because I don't have room for buttons, no. Talents come and go and core rotation stays the same. I just want to keep old "core" feeling of my class. That's why I don't like pruning. Core abilities are going away, which kills fantasy of classes - makes it too diluted.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  9. #9
    I'm a hot and cold min/maxer raider, if I'm not planning on raiding, i'll go with more passives, just to make my life easier. Like, who cares if right this season, my LFR single target DPS is 57K, but can be 62K, if I optimized my talents and gear? Not me, so that's the end of that discussion.
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  10. #10
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creb99 View Post
    Simple question, would a DPS toon that picked all passives for talents be less effective than one that picked abilities to press?
    It depends. Ideally I think a more active playstyle should be more rewarding and Blizzard have said things to that effect in the past; actual execution hasn't always worked out that way with some passive talents outperforming actives, often quite significantly.

  11. #11
    Immortal Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Passive options are often the best, but if you are missing something within your own GCD rotation, then taking an extra ability is going to be the choice.
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  12. #12
    The Lightbringer
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    Tuning aside, the slew of passive options will prove to be a boon for people with latency issues. But yes, in general they are the "lazy-man" options that are all but certainly going to be tuned lower than the active ST and active AoE talents.

  13. #13
    I'd like to think that Active talents can provide you with the greater benefit because of how you can master their use or screw up and waste a certain ability at the wrong time, like using Avatar outside a very burst'y phase etc etc.

    Passives would still be powerful but a master of Active talents would, and should imo, have a bit more power at their disposal because they have to manage their talent more so than a Passive boost to *insert spell*.

    I think that's what Blizz wanted to be the case at one point anyway. Seems reasonable that more effort (Active) = more power.

  14. #14
    Actives usually give the same/more power overall but depends on the player, fight, procs (class and trinket) and other things. I usually take a mix depending on the fight.

  15. #15
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    It's supposed to work like passives are the "easier" choice for your spec, so should be a weaker choice than taking an active ability, which rewards "harder" gameplay. The difference will not be much but it will be there.

    It's a good system IMO as it encourages you to get better but does not punish you badly if you dont like a certain play style or are just plain bad at it.

  16. #16
    I think the ideal situation would be for passive skills to offer the best returns for lower skilled players, average players can choose what they prefer and be roughly the same, and higher skill players will want mostly active skills for the best returns if used near-perfectly.

  17. #17
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    I think it depends on the skill of the individual player. If both are average players, the one with all passives will do better because an average player wouldn't utilize their active skills optimally. If both are very good players, then the one with actives will do better because at a certain point passives will limit you because you can't use them as strategically as an active skill.

  18. #18
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    Passive doesnt necessarily mean less skillful
    Some passive talents require a change in the rotation of baseline abilities or they wont have an effect
    So in that sense, they require more skill to manage then an active talent which is just a cd to press when it comes up

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