[Guardian] Legion Discussion

[Adramelch]

So it can't proc from the automatic free moonfires nor the ticks but what about the initial moonfire dmg from the one you cast to get the rage?

I would assume it can proc from that, as it's a regular attack.

[ryudaraku]

Galatic Guardian with a 50% proc chance on any damage we deal. Thats just stupid and i love it. No way it stays this way, especially if it procs of itself, the rage generation would be insane.

Somebody power level a Gaurdian Druid to 80, get a level 100 healer to carry you through ICC to Sindrigosia's room and Spam AOEs on the Whelps.

[Deleted]

Cannot upload the video right now, but here is a screenshot
LAZOR PARTY


EDIT: Here is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-yC...ature=youtu.be

[Ooshraxa]

Cannot upload the video right now, but here is a screenshot
LAZOR PARTY

Holy shit, that delivers. 10/10.

The video is amazing. Made me LOL IRL

[Raable]

Gonna have to wear sunglasses when I play with that proc chance. I guess this change was to make it more competitive with Incarnation? Any thoughts they might make soul of the forest do a little more rage or damage? Really cant see anyone picking it over the other two in any scenario otherwise.

[Nevcairiel]

Haha at 50% its just insanely amazing, but thats just too extreme and probably a bug, even if I wish it wasn't.

[Ooshraxa]

Gonna have to wear sunglasses when I play with that proc chance. I guess this change was to make it more competitive with Incarnation? Any thoughts they might make soul of the forest do a little more rage or damage? Really cant see anyone picking it over the other two in any scenario otherwise.

It's a bug. Someone added a 0 to the 5 that was previously there. They probably meant to increase it by another value, but this proc rate is only good for posting ridiculous parses and videos.

[Deleted]

How do you guys feel about the extremely high uptime of AM right now? Due to various factors, 100% Ironfur uptime is doable in pre-heroic gear and pre-raid artifact levels (you only need level 12).
I made a video out of fun to test this by just macroing Ironfur into Thrash to see what would happen (which has another set of problems). Check out the commentary and video below:

Build: 21691

After dabbling a bit with Guardian on Alpha I half jokingly said that their AM is so easy to keep up that you could macro it and would still do well.
So now I tried it, with an all passive build and Ironfur macro'd into Thrash to see if it was actually doable.
The goal: Emulate the simplest rotation you can do with the least amount of active buttons and see what happens. (I am also fairly certain that I goofed on the rotation but even then, that demonstrates the point even better, doesn't it?)

The result?
Nearly 100% uptime with 2 stacks overlapping often for ~2 seconds while using a macro. And it would be exactly 100% uptime if it wasn't for those 2 GCDs at the pull to get the rotation going. AM checks? Not an issue.

Will a player that doesn't macro IF do better? Yes, because of things like Mark of Ursoc usage or not using it while not actively tanking (we are talking brain dead macro play here as comparison). An actual Guardian player would be able to keep up IF full time, use Pulverize (Blood Frenzy is *not* a requirement to pull this off) while still having excess Rage generation to use MoU every now and then.

Still, I think that the difference between a skilled Guardian and one that uses the most barebones macro rotation is too little.
The underlying problem is that Guardian AM is usable too much so there is little room for those players to differentiate themselves (and it also makes AM checks pointless).

This is not an isolated issue among tanks so don't take this the wrong way (i.e. "OMG NERF BEARS") but this is an issue dear to my heart. I genuinely believe that strong AM that is available less often will be healthier not just for the game but also for the tanks themselves because timing matters a lot more. I think the same whether it's Death Strike, Shield of the Righteous, Demon Spikes, Ignore Pain or... whatever it is Monks are currently doing (honestly, Monks are the closest to my ideal model but the players hate it because they can't compete with the overtuned/spamming AMs of other tanks).
Here is to hoping tank tuning will fix this issue as much as possible.

Anyway, lets break this down for why this is possible for Guardians specifically:

- AM duration: Guardian of Elune (+2 sec), Ursoc's Endurance (+1.5 sec) improve AM duration from 6 seconds to 9.5 secs. If you rank UE up with relics, you even get 11 seconds. This is crazy.

- AM cost reduction: Gory Fury can reduce AM cost by 50% (and from my experience, it always procs on the pull like you can see in the video).

Baseline rage generation may be too high or AM cost might be too low but these are pretty much the biggest factors here.

Relevant artifact: http://legion.wowhead.com/artifact-c...vAM8ABPCAVNgEA (Note that there are NO relics socketed for the video but that if you want to make IF uptime/overlap even better, then this is the way to go.)
Talents: http://legion.wowhead.com/talent-cal...d/guardian/MME
Logs for Ironfur uptime: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=192081 (The log has picked up other players so I had to zoom it to the first Druid action.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-SiPwWn-rY

[Ooshraxa]

Hrm. Might they nerf Ironfur to only be REALLY effective at 2+ stacks then?

That, or "adjust" Gory Fur.

[Nevcairiel]

AM checks should generally not be a problem unless you suck, just like Savage Defense (ie. pool a bit of rage to be able to use it).
They have never really been a "hard" part about tanking, just had to be careful not to Maul all the rage away. (and in legion Survival Instincts and Mark of Ursol qualify for the binary AM check as well)

Being able to stack IF however for really large spikes is what might make a real difference, so while keeping it up 100% might be feasible, you don't have any freedom left to stack it higher when needed. I think being able to stack IF makes it more interesting than most other classes AM abilities.

So you get a choice between a baseline "medium" AM, or a strong AM (ie. stacked IF) when needed. I think I like that concept overall.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

So even after today I'm still in the #NoBetaClub.
Please anyone who is in Beta, keep testing bear for me.
I need information

[zurm]

So even after today I'm still in the #NoBetaClub.
Please anyone who is in Beta, keep testing bear for me.
I need information

I'm here for you, buddy. I'll be home most of tomorrow, going to level to 110 asap and run dungeons with my guildies (7 of them got in, but only 2 of us were in alpha).

[Deleted]

Same shit again on the beta now as they released the build where lacerate was replaced for swipe. Swipe is not available for Bear Form


edit: after some disconnects its working again somehow. strange

[celinamuna]

I think the same whether it's Death Strike, Shield of the Righteous, Demon Spikes, Ignore Pain or... whatever it is Monks are currently doing (honestly, Monks are the closest to my ideal model but the players hate it because they can't compete with the overtuned/spamming AMs of other tanks

Tbh i expect most tanks to lose some amount of uptime soon.

[MCDoom]

Just got into beta and bears feel amazing at the moment. Only complaints I can make are with displacer beast still swapping into cat form. Galactic guardian also feel way too high with a 50% proc chance, you just end up either spamming moonfire or wasting your procs.

GG would feel better if instead it would just give you the rage automatically with a several second ICD or maybe make the proc also increase the initial dmg of the next moonfire by 100% (so it's around the same dmg as a thrash) while reducing the proc chance to 5-10%.

Although it's still shite incap roar might now see some use now that you can get a 30 yard range on it with talents.

[Ausr]

Just got into beta and bears feel amazing at the moment. Only complaints I can make are with displacer beast still swapping into cat form. Galactic guardian also feel way too high with a 50% proc chance, you just end up either spamming moonfire or wasting your procs.

GG would feel better if instead it would just give you the rage automatically with a several second ICD or maybe make the proc also increase the initial dmg of the next moonfire by 100% (so it's around the same dmg as a thrash) while reducing the proc chance to 5-10%.

Although it's still shite incap roar might now see some use now that you can get a 30 yard range on it with talents.

No one speaks ill of 50% GG talents. This has to stay.

[MCDoom]

No one speaks ill of 50% GG talents. This has to stay.

50% proc then with auto rage on a 5 sec ICD then :P. Disco bear is still fun if you ignore the proc as it is at the moment.

[Nevcairiel]

No one speaks ill of 50% GG talents. This has to stay.

As much fun as it is initially, the constant moonfire spam gets a bit annoying after a while =p

[Ooshraxa]

It speaks great volumes about the state of Legion Bear, that most of the posts in the last 4-5 days have been about the hilariousness of a bugged talent.
Really looking forward to playing - no beta access yet, sadly

[Deleted]

Who says it is bugged? Has anyone got a source or a statement that GG is bugged right now? For me it looks like a strong rage generation talent now. A bit too strong damagewise in AoE Situations where the dot can tick multiple times, but well - tunings aren't finished yet. If the guardian needs a talent for extra rage generation in that form is doubtful, but with that procc rate it isnt just a no brainer or for lazy people who dont wanna maintain moonfire anymore.