Gtx 1080

[Vash The Stampede]

The Radeon Pro Duo beats the 980Ti/Titan X by 60% if we're allowed to use ridiculous cards at your high-end comparison. And it even uses less power which is comically impressive.

The Radeon Pro Duo is in Titan X price range. No sane gamer buys those. I draw a line at ~$600.

Being the fastest is important because the average Joe buys whatever is sold by the company that sells the best. People don't know anything about computers, they know that CPUs are made by Intel and that the GeForce cards are supposed to be good.

Yes, but it creates this illusion that everything they sell is the best. The 1080 is now the fastest graphics card, but I can't afford one so I'll buy the GTX 960. JoeSixPack will blindly buy it without looking at benchmarks. This is what happened back when Nvidia sold the Geforce 4 MX, and consumers thought it was a slower but cheaper Geforce 4 Ti. They just go by name. This is also why consumers are confused about memory size on a graphics card. I know a lot of individuals who think the memory is how you determine the fastest graphics card, and only the memory.

The people in this thread are far more informed than the typical graphics card buyer. Probably more people lurk this forum for info, than actually post. Which is better, the R9 380 or GTX 960? Never mind, the 1080 is the fastest, I'll buy the 960. That is the power of having the fastest GPU on the market, up to ~$600. That and the 1080/1070 cards get far more publicity than a 1060 or 1050 would get.

[Wries]

That price is based on marketing knowledge that there are people out there who are tools. Any graphics card in that price range is for tools. Sorry to those who own Fury and 980/980 Ti cards, but it's true. Except for Apple products, electronics don't retain their value. The 1070 is faster than all those cards, and cheaper. Especially if you bought one of those cards earlier this year, then you're gonna feel like you made a mistake.

TRIGGERED

How come anything but the PriceVperformance sweet spot is "for tools"? As long as it offers me something extra, and I have a game/screen/application that notably benefits from my choice, can it maybe be the right choice for me? I got a job, home, car, no student loans, personal economy well-fed and all taken care of. Can I, without being a "tool", spend on something outside the golden PriceVperformance scale on a measly graphics card once every 3 years? :P

[Evolixe]

TRIGGERED

How come anything but the PriceVperformance sweet spot is "for tools"? As long as it offers me something extra, and I have a game/screen/application that notably benefits from my choice, can it maybe be the right choice for me? I got a job, home, car, no student loans, personal economy well-fed and all taken care of. Can I, without being a "tool", spend on something outside the golden PriceVperformance scale on a measly graphics card once every 3 years? :P

Seems to be the general argument. "LOLOL YO MONEH" What if I realize and don't care?
I can afford it. And I just want the best I can get. Period. Price at that point doesn't really matter. Nor does it if it keeps it's value or not.

60% more price for 30% more performance. I know. I don't care. Still want it.

[Life-Binder]

Price is not absurd simply because there is no viable alternative. It would be absurd to price a card that shits on just about anything out now any less than that.

And it will stay that price for a long time, unless AMD (highly unlikely) drops off something comparable.

this times x1000


AMD fans salty because nWinnia selling the fastest card on the market for $600-700

[Deleted]

this times x1000


AMD fans salty because nWinnia selling the fastest card on the market for $600-700

You're behaving as if a monopoly would be good for consumers.

Let's hope AMD retalliates with some impressive cards, there needs to be competition on the market, or we'll all suffer on every front.

[Life-Binder]

i know that competition is good


doesnt change the fact that charging $600-700 for the top card on the market (atm) is how it is and has been

and not this crap of "OMG 1080 is a mid-range chip (LOL), thus it needs to cost ~$500-550, evil Nvidia charging me too much"


of course lack of a competitior alows Nvidia to be "bolder" so to speak, but regardless - you pay top dollar for top performance, its as simple as that

[Deleted]

You can say all you want. The 1080 is a mid-range chip.

The moment the 1080ti comes out, the 1080 will drop to 500 dollars. The price gap between the 1070 and 1080 is quite big..

And of course, Nvidia can charge whatever they want for it. Good for them. And performance wise it is a fair price. But spec wise, or where the chip stands it does not. I won't be buying one at least.

I am more interested in the 1070 and how P10 will perform.

[Deleted]

Since I got a little burned with the 980, I'm waiting for the 1080 Ti this time.

[Deleted]

You can say all you want. The 1080 is a mid-range chip.

Actually, they're classified as high-end cards. Just like how the 970 was considered an affordable high-end card. The 960 would be considered a mid-range card.

i know that competition is good


doesnt change the fact that charging $600-700 for the top card on the market (atm) is how it is and has been

and not this crap of "OMG 1080 is a mid-range chip (LOL), thus it needs to cost ~$500-550, evil Nvidia charging me too much"


of course lack of a competitior alows Nvidia to be "bolder" so to speak, but regardless - you pay top dollar for top performance, its as simple as that

I wasn't merely referring to the cost, which would be the least of our problems. Healthy competition is a good motivator for timely developement and improvement.

[Noctifer616]

Actually, they're classified as high-end cards. Just like how the 970 was considered an affordable high-end card. The 960 would be considered a mid-range card.

The GTX 480 was a 529 mm² big chip with a $499 price point. While we don't know exact die size of the GTX 1080 yet it's probably less than 350mm2. The GTX 1080 is a mid to high end sized chip (not enthusiast) selling for an enthusiast price of 600-700$. The true high end will be 400mm2+ and enthusiast level will be 500mm2+.

[Gaidax]

I think AMD needs to focus on something, when you are trying to do everything at once, you end up doing everything in half-assed way.

When ATI was around it was all about graphics and it gave serious fight there.

AMD is not too bad, but they miss that secret sauce that makes Nvidia tick.

[Deleted]

The GTX 1080 is a mid to high end sized chip (not enthusiast) selling for an enthusiast price of 600-700$.

Thats the exactly my thoughts. Last couple years they up the costs a little bit at the time. The gtx1080 should have been around 500$/€ with gtx1070 around 300-350 and 1060 @ 200.

[Gaidax]

Thats the exactly my thoughts. Last couple years they up the costs a little bit at the time. The gtx1080 should have been around 500$/€ with gtx1070 around 300-350 and 1060 @ 200.

It will be as soon as AMD do something useful hopefully this summer.

[Artorius]

Actually, they're classified as high-end cards. Just like how the 970 was considered an affordable high-end card. The 960 would be considered a mid-range card.

Being classified as a high end card doesn't change the fact that the GPU at said card is a mid range GPU.

GP100 is high end
GP104 is mid range
GP106 is low end

What nvidia did was throw their mid range GPUS at their high end line of cards while creating another bracket above it to sell the Titans. So you're essentially buying a mid-range product for the price of a high-end one, and people don't realise this because they don't know enough about manufacturing process change to understand that the performance difference is something natural and that will obviously happen. It isn't an excuse to do insane pricing.

[Deleted]

Being classified as a high end card doesn't change the fact that the GPU at said card is a mid range GPU.

GP100 is high end
GP104 is mid range
GP106 is low end

What nvidia did was throw their mid range GPUS at their high end line of cards while creating another bracket above it to sell the Titans. So you're essentially buying a mid-range product for the price of a high-end one, and people don't realise this because they don't know enough about manufacturing process change to understand that the performance difference is something natural and that will obviously happen. It isn't an excuse to do insane pricing.

From a manufacturing point of view, I'm sure that's true. From a consumer's point of view, it seems silly to classify the 1080 or 1070 as mid-range, when the 970 was considered high-end (and probably still is).

While it doesn't really matter how you classify them and for what reason, I doubt many would bother spending 370 euro on a card that would be classified mid-range. We're enthousiasts, or at least, most of us on this forum. Spending this kind of money on a gpu, is quite a big deal for the average Joe, which we can see in the Steam statistics that show more than 15% use their processor's GPU, rather than a dedicated gpu.

[Denpepe]

Being classified as a high end card doesn't change the fact that the GPU at said card is a mid range GPU.

GP100 is high end
GP104 is mid range
GP106 is low end

What nvidia did was throw their mid range GPUS at their high end line of cards while creating another bracket above it to sell the Titans. So you're essentially buying a mid-range product for the price of a high-end one, and people don't realise this because they don't know enough about manufacturing process change to understand that the performance difference is something natural and that will obviously happen. It isn't an excuse to do insane pricing.

The difference between you and me on this subject is that I classify them by price not by GPU model or GPU die size

So for me < 200$ Low 200$<350$ mid up to 650/700$ high the rest enthousiast.

For all we know there might not even be an 1080Ti

[zorkuus]

So glad I didn't hurry to replace my 660 with a 970.

[Kontinuum]

GTX 1080 will get liquid cooled variant at 2.5GHz

[Life-Binder]

Being classified as a high end card doesn't change the fact that the GPU at said card is a mid range GPU.

GP100 is high end
GP104 is mid range
GP106 is low end

even if you think that

then simply accept that current Nvidia "mid-range" have become such monsters that they perform and sell at $380-450 to $600-700 price levels

and move on


you call that ovepricing I call it evolution

[Artorius]

The difference between you and me on this subject is that I classify them by price not by GPU model or GPU die size

That's the difference from observing a black box from the outside and analysing the system from the inside, if you don't understand any better it makes no sense to try to understand what's happening inside the black box, but if you do you'll get to different conclusions than simply looking at it from the outside.

You can sell anything at any price that you want, that doesn't change what this thing is.

- - - Updated - - -

even if you think that
then simply accept that current Nvidia "mid-range" have become such monsters that they perform and sell at $380-450 to $600-700 price levels
and move on
you call that ovepricing I call it evolution

I'm not seeing any monster. The thing here is that this discussion is above you and you simply can't understand that the performance jump is bound to happen from the smaller manufacturing process which allows them to put equally as big circuits at the same physical space. Performance isn't something obscure that comes from the nowhere, you can improve the architecture or simply make it bigger. If you have a manufacturing process that can make things so ridiculously small you can make bigger circuits at the same physical size of the previously small chips. That's evolution.

Creating another price bracket at 1000 USD isn't evolution, that's simply taking advantage of their clueless customers that don't know any better and can't even differentiate a GPU from a graphic's card.

There isn't anything new at this gen, Nvidia did the same thing at the 600, 700 and 900 series. The last high-end card that they sold at the "high-end" price bracket was the GTX580 which was GF110 and before that the GTX480 which was GF100 and the original big Fermi. Then they decided to put the mid-range GPUs into the "high-end" cards and sell the high-end GPU at a new "enthusiast" category that appeared with the Titan.

Is it the evilest thing in the world? Not really, they're a company that has profits as main objective and they'll do anything that they can to increase their profits. That's understandable. But is the pricing correct? Not really either. But hey, you don't need to sell things at fair pricing unless there's someone forcing you to. And AMD will simply join the same boat and sell their true high-end GPUs at another line that they gave birth with the Fury X.