[LEGION] Brewmaster Discussion

[fringemoo]

Ah dammit, you're right. It's a bit less calculations then but with GotM it's still overkill as a aura i guess.

GotM is a simple multiplier on every damage event, based on your current health / max health. No complex arithmetic needed. (us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20743714421?page=11#218)

That said I'm not sure how practically useful it is since it doesn't change your decision process. It's nice as visual candy but doesn't have much value likewise for dodge chance.

Apart from cases where the tank is Celestalon that's tanking at 35% hp with perfect communication with the healer just to get the extra orbs and 'game' the system.

[Deleted]

It would have to be changed a bit, as Elusive Brew doesn't exist anymore. Don't think that's happened yet.

That was my point, yeah. That EB won't be there anymore so the trinket will have to change. Maybe it will be 1 stack of ISB instead. Because that wouldn't be op at all.

[fattz]

I just started playing Brm on the beta. Please tell me it gets better. Please! It just plays so slow and boooooring. Or maybe im doing something wrong? its possible. I can be pretty dumb. Smash on cd, black out and then palm?

[Deleted]

GotM is a simple multiplier on every damage event, based on your current health / max health. No complex arithmetic needed. (us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20743714421?page=11#218)

I know how it works, but it's still a lot of Flops (triggered by a aura) which comes with a massive perfomance issue.
And as you said: It's not that useful that you to create an addon for this because it's not affecting the gameplay.

I just started playing Brm on the beta. Please tell me it gets better. Please! It just plays so slow and boooooring. Or maybe im doing something wrong? its possible. I can be pretty dumb. Smash on cd, black out and then palm?

Specc into RJW (on ST too) and there is a lot less downtime but jeha, even with Jadewind we'll have a lot of time to "enjoy" the environment.

[stross01]

I just started playing Brm on the beta. Please tell me it gets better. Please! It just plays so slow and boooooring. Or maybe im doing something wrong? its possible. I can be pretty dumb. Smash on cd, black out and then palm?

It gets more similar to live when you start to get more haste.

But mostly: Welcome to Legion.

[Deleted]

Hi there everyone. I want to ask how brewmaster looks like in legion, since i have no time to read 66 other page.

[stross01]

Hi there everyone. I want to ask how brewmaster looks like in legion, since i have no time to read 66 other page.

It's in a confusing place. Probably going to change again soon.

[Inuyaki]

I don't have Obstinate Determination yet, but even without we seem op if the dmg is pretty low but have serious problems if the damage is high.
The damage is pretty low though so far, I can pull trash in dungeons without a healer and with a healer 2 packs.
Then again I got problems in enrage phase of that big tide guy in Eye of Azshara because 1 dd was dead and the phase took too long. You run out of cooldowns pretty fast when the damage is above some kinda threshold.

[stross01]

I don't have Obstinate Determination yet, but even without we seem op if the dmg is pretty low but have serious problems if the damage is high.
The damage is pretty low though so far, I can pull trash in dungeons without a healer and with a healer 2 packs.
Then again I got problems in enrage phase of that big tide guy in Eye of Azshara because 1 dd was dead and the phase took too long. You run out of cooldowns pretty fast when the damage is above some kinda threshold.

Are you on beta right now? I'd like to scope this trash-soloing monk.

[Inuyaki]

I didn't say I solo it, I said I don't need a healer (for most packs, there are a few which actually do dmg)
45 artifact power until OD, I am curious how that will work out then

[Zaak]

I just started playing Brm on the beta. Please tell me it gets better. Please! It just plays so slow and boooooring. Or maybe im doing something wrong? its possible. I can be pretty dumb. Smash on cd, black out and then palm?

It may be balanced around having the artifact abilities, but you're right, BRM right now is so damn boring. Monk in general feels pretty clunky I would say

[Inuyaki]

Ok, once we have Obstinate Determination, we are op on low level content... and that is only 5 artifact points in

We had a bugged random grp Neltharions Lair, 3 ppl were just off and didnt came back, so the Enhancer and me kicked the rest and searched and while in search thought we can start with trash. After trash was dead and we were standing in front of first boss, group was still not full, so we decided to give it a try.
And dualkilled the first boss... I think I could have done it solo, would have taken double as long for obvious reasons.

As long as stuff does not enough dmg to threaten you enough, you just hop between 30-50% hp or when orbs crit up to 60, 70, even 90% or full.
And this is even fun. At least for me.
Here is where the problem starts imo... with healer it gets boring... and when the healer doesn't know what you can do (I try to explain always in the beginning) we are also manasponges and the healer loses quite alot of mana on you. Because our mitigation just sucks. Our strong suit is (again) our selfheal (I thought Blizz wanted to get rid of that?) and we lose all of that once we can't jump around that magical 35% mark.
Now what happenes when stuff gets more threatening? I have actually no idea, but I only can assume that we will get massive problems in higher mythic+ or mythic raids.

In my opinion the whole model just does not work. The difficulty range in which we are balanced is (or seems) way smaller than on other tanks. And thus just not balancable. We will see, I didn't try hard content yet, only 104 for now. But I am curious how it will play out. But that is so far my observations

[stross01]

^ please post this to the beta feedback thread. When enough negativity coalesces in one place, soothsayers say, Celestalon will be summoned once again.

[Inuyaki]

Can't, I am from Europe

[bubky]

^ please post this to the beta feedback thread. When enough negativity coalesces in one place, soothsayers say, Celestalon will be summoned once again.

Agree with this. I get the impression some alpha testers have gotten a bit tired of beating the same dead horse so the more new people posting in the feedback thread the better, positive or negative.

Speaking of positives, with the devs trying to stop people constantly changing talents around, brewmasters seem to come out unscathed due to a total absence of meaningful talent choices.

[keqe]

Speaking of positives, with the devs trying to stop people constantly changing talents around, brewmasters seem to come out unscathed due to a total absence of meaningful talent choices.

"yayyy"

[gregstafelam]

Agree with this. I get the impression some alpha testers have gotten a bit tired of beating the same dead horse so the more new people posting in the feedback thread the better, positive or negative.

Speaking of positives, with the devs trying to stop people constantly changing talents around, brewmasters seem to come out unscathed due to a total absence of meaningful talent choices.

I'm one of those, dont know what we are supposed to do now, we even point situations on LEGION BOSS FIGHTS that we have problems, but we still feel ignored...

[Tano4ek]

As i can see, main problem of our spec right now that Blizzard started make wrong decisions from designe of our class. Brew stack's, healing regarding to GotO etc.

But in all this i see positive things which can be transformed into brilliant class.

My idea is to give us new resource - brew (it should overlap energy).

And little bit change our rottation, in accordance with legion ideas like:
Elusive Brawler:
Active ability. 2 charges. Working 5 sec. CD: 6-7 sec Brewmaster avoid every third attack.

I think it's greate idea for ability, but it should be active.

Ironskin Brew:
Active ability. Spend 20 from you brews. Increased stagger amount on 20%. Can stack.

Here we can control how much resource we spend and how strong def we have.

Purifying Brew:
Active ability. Spend 10 from your brews. Still the same, remove 100% of stagger.

Relaxing Brew:
Active ability. Spend 30 from you brews. CD: 24-30 sec. Remove 100% of stagger and heal you. Healing depends on stagger amount.

Our personal 'HOLY SHIT! I'M DYING!' ability. And our heal

Breath of Fire:
Classic. One new thing - spend brew (10-15). You should chose, what do you want - attack or def, because you have only 100 brew.

Mastery: Strong brew:
Decreased cost of all abilities which required a brew on n%. Increased attack power.

I think it a best idea for brewmaster. What are we doing? Yes, we are doing holy f***ing awesome brews! And our skills should be measured by how strong drink we make.

-----
I think for right balance here should be one or two damage abilities which requires brew, but my fantasy is over here

I know that is just my fantasy and Blizzard do not even pay attention to such, but i think this is real correct fantasy of our class.

[Deleted]

I don’t really know what to make of this spec.

During lower tier content (and taking multiple smaller hits) we are basically invincible thanks to Obstinate Determination. And while being invincible sounds fun, the way the whole thing works is sort of frustrating to me. You are just hoping to drop to 35%, maybe even get a Greater Healing Sphere (up to 50% chance with two Artifact Relics that buff Overflow) though that’s not really necessary since one single Healing Sphere can be like an LoH if it crits and Celestial Fortune procs.

Right now I don’t even need Ironskin Brew to “smooth” damage intake – the mobs don’t usually hit me hard enough. But once they do (big pulls, or I need a Brew for an AM check) and I actually have to purify afterwards, I feel like all my charges are gone in a few seconds. And then it’s back to Healing Spheres. Which works, but feels like the game does everything for me. It doesn’t feel good in lower content and I don’t understand how it’s supposed to work in Mythic+ and Mythic raids. But maybe it will.
With how the Brew system works, we could potentially kill ourselves if we mess up the Brew charges. Purify once too often (or if you don’t notice that you already went from 60 to 30% Stagger… *cough*), you’re down one charge that you might have needed later, for example for an AM check – IB and then purify, that’s already 2 charges out of your 3.

When the content is actually challenging I have to keep track of my health (which sounds dumb since every tank has to do that, but you’re always on the lookout for that magic 35% mark), energy, Healing Spheres (amount, and, to a lesser extent, position), Stagger and Brew charges. The payoff for all that “work” is… I survive. Which every tank is supposed to. And the other tanks don’t have to watch for 5 different things at once – all specs have become pretty straightforward. Build your resource, spend it on AM, if shit hits the fan, use one of your cooldowns.

Actually, when I think about it, Brewmaster is pretty beginner friendly as well. Obstinate Determination, crit chance and Celestial Fortune do everything for you. Who cares what you’re doing with your Brew charges, one Sphere can get you from 35% to 100 with a bit of luck. Just keep one of those charges for AM checks, 15 Energy to soak in the Spheres and you’re good. It feels like you're in constant panic mode because your health jumps around, but in the end, you can't really die - all your passives save you. Much fun.

[stross01]

Two changes in the build and they're both nerfs.

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY