Why is exclusivity bad for WoW (and other MMOs)?

[Trapped]

This is on topic of "we don't need 4 raid difficulties to cater to every playstyle". Why do people feel like exclusivity is bad? Raiding used to be THE level of awesomeness you wanted to achieve. Raiding used to be nearly exclusive to guilds only, thus forcing people to find a guild if they wanted to raid. You also needed to be somewhat "good" at the game and your class if you wanted to raid. There was no hand-holding, babysitting mode. There was one mode: raid mode. You were either a raider or you weren't. It gave (some/most) non-raiders something to work towards. When I first started playing and saw everyone in their awesome raid gear, it made me want to get better. That desire pushed me into theorycrafting and made me a better player. Having that proverbial carrot-on-a-stick is healthy for the game because it breeds better players in the end, and I think we can all agree (maybe?) that the skill level of the average player has dropped considerably over the years. Why? Because there isn't just one "raid mode" anymore, you have a figurative slider bar that lets you see raid content at your skill level. For some/most, they're content doing LFR or pugging through the LFG system, even despite the better gear in heroic and mythic. They're seeing the content, getting SOME sort of character advancement, and the game ends there. Waving Mythic gear in front of people's faces isn't enough to make them want to go out and "get good" anymore like it used to.

I know common rebuttals to this usually go something like, "Well, Blizzard doesn't want to spend dev money on something that only a fraction of the players will ever see" blah blah blah. I get this point, but its very easy to justify exclusive content when the game's better days had exclusive content. When every player gets to see the Super Bowl (albeit a watered-down one), there's no drive to see a "slightly-harder mode" of the same Super Bowl.

[Dormie]

It's not, it's a natural state of true progression.

[Darththeo]

Special snowflaking much?

You need to understand that this is a game. I pay the same to play it as you, I should be denied content because I am not as good as you are? And because I can't get as good as you because people don't want the particular class/spec I want to play? The super bowl analogy doesn't work as all teams have a chance to see the Super Bowl, in the old way, not everyone had a chance to see content.

Also added, that what do you give Raiders who beat the raid and were fully geared to max? There was nothing ... by adding other difficulties it allowed raiders to do more.

Edit: I am editing this point do to an assumption people are making. I am not asking for the same gear or access to the same other stuff other players get. By content I am referring to story and the progression of said story.

[styil]

I think it all stemmed from the emergence of metrics-driven development. The developers now feel that if everyone isn't participating in everything, then it's a waste of development resources. Exclusivity cannot exist with this developer philosophy and exclusivity is in fact seen as a failure: if everyone isn't doing the content then something is "wrong" and money was wasted developing that content. So content is designed to be done by everyone.

Basically, money over fun.

[Deleted]

It's bad for the commuity spirit if the endgame is made completely unaccessible for everyone who can't invest enough time into hardcore raiding. People who pay the same money for the game should be able to at least see the story, even if the rewards are crap.

I see LFR as more like a demo of the actual raid. Some may be content with it and some may want more. But a wider selection of options has never been bad for any game.

[Valech]

Special snowflaking much?

You need to understand that this is a game. I pay the same to play it as you, I should be denied content because I am not as good as you are? And because I can't get as good as you because people don't want the particular class/spec I want to play? The super bowl analogy doesn't work as all teams have a chance to see the Super Bowl, in the old way, not everyone had a chance to see content.

We are given the same prerequesites. What we make out of them is up to us. You are not denied content. There is nobody actively hindering you but yourself. The argument with the class or specc you like to play doesn´t stand. I play the same class and specc since bc and I have always found myself raiding the highest difficulty.

It's bad for the commuity spirit if the endgame is made completely unaccessible for everyone who can't invest enough time into hardcore raiding. People who pay the same money for the game should be able to at least see the story, even if the rewards are crap.

I see LFR as more like a demo of the actual raid. Some may be content with it and some may want more. But a wider selection of options has never been bad for any game.

Same goes for the time argument. I spend less time in WoW then I spend on other hobbies. You can easily see and clear the current content on mythic before the next content hits live without spending more then 2 or 3 evenings raiding.



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Also, I want to make clear that I am perfectly fine with the current system. If nothing else, it allows me to raid with friends or even several groups of friends with the same char without having to wonder about IDs.

[Deleted]

Basically, money over fun.

How so? Is heroic/mythic raiding somehow less fun just because some other people are doing a simplified version of it?

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We are given the same prerequesites. What we make out of them is up to us. You are not denied content. There is nobody actively hindering you but yourself. The argument with the class or specc you like to play doesn´t stand. I play the same class and specc since bc and I have always found myself raiding the highest difficulty.

Same goes for the time argument. I spend less time in WoW then I spend on other hobbies. You can easily see and clear the current content on mythic before the next content hits live without spending more then 2 or 3 evenings raiding.

Some people may not care about the difficulty level. They just want to see the content and not show off their mythic penis enlargements.

I don't think you are getting the point. Elitism stinks miles away.

FYI, I've done my share of hardcore raiding. Then studies and work, combined with two-three worthless expansions in a row, caught up with me.

[styil]

How so? Is heroic/mythic raiding somehow less fun just because some other people are doing a simplified version of it?

Not for the Mythic raiders. But for the players pushed into LFR with non-raiding alternatives taken away from them as part of the "we need to justify our development resources into raiding" approach? I would say so.

[dacoolist]

Exclusive parts of WoW have always been there, the best part of the game for a lot of us, is getting that 1% drop rate mount, or winning something off the bmah, or idk - having fun? Don't get me wrong, being a special snowflake is cool, I love my challenge mode sets, but deep down... I've had my time with them, I like them a lot, but I'm happy also if Blizz puts them back in the game after all this time. A tonnnnn of people ask me about the Challenge mode gear, and before that, the arcanite ripper, same thing - I jumped for joy when Blizzard put it on the bmah because.. Again, I got the damn thing HANDED to me, scott free - nobody else wanted it. I think it's fine to have exclusive titles, mounts - but it's nice to have a way to earn them - after it's been removed (such as the legendary cloaks for MoP, wouldn't it be nice to have them like a 1% drop off mythic garrosh or something like that for new players?)

[Trapped]

Special snowflaking much?

You need to understand that this is a game. I pay the same to play it as you, I should be denied content because I am not as good as you are? And because I can't get as good as you because people don't want the particular class/spec I want to play? The super bowl analogy doesn't work as all teams have a chance to see the Super Bowl, in the old way, not everyone had a chance to see content.

Also added, that what do you give Raiders who beat the raid and were fully geared to max? There was nothing ... by adding other difficulties it allowed raiders to do more.

Forgot about the special snowflake responses. No, paying for a game does not entitle anyone to see the same content. I think you just special snowflaked yourself.

And yes, everyone in the game is capable of seeing end-game content. Those who want it go for it, those who don't choose the LFR route.

[Valech]

How so? Is heroic/mythic raiding somehow less fun just because some other people are doing a simplified version of it?

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Some people may not care about the difficulty level. They just want to see the content and not show off their mythic penis enlargements.

I don't think you are getting the point. Elitism stinks miles away.

FYI, I've done my share of hardcore raiding. Then studies and work, combined with two-three worthless expansions in a row, caught up with me.

I think you are kinda defensive here. I do not see any connection between raiding mythic and showing off, especially not the way I have tried to put it. Why jump to conclusions and shout "elitism"? It appears everything you dislike for some reason smells like elitism.
Also, I am, as stated, perfectly fine with the system as it is. People can raid whatever content they want. Or even not raid.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Forgot about the special snowflake responses. No, paying for a game does not entitle anyone to see the same content. I think you just special snowflaked yourself.

And yes, everyone in the game is capable of seeing end-game content. Those who want it go for it, those who don't choose the LFR route.

Not in Vanilla or BC. If you even took a break you were fucked.

[A Chozo]

I don't know the point goes for other people, but for me it goes like this:

I'm an average-skilled player, capable of clearing mythic (old heroics) raids if I have enough time a week. I played all the facets of the game, making my monthly-sub worth it. I'm usually a 100%-clearer when I play games, collecting everything that's avaliable to hoard, and this is projected in WoW too.

Nowadays, I don't have time to do Mythic raids. Work, College, other AWESOME games... Why I would pay the sub/box price for a game that I know that I can't play to get 100% - or even, 60%, since much of the developers time is spent on the raids that I can't go? The only solution I got to this problem was: You can't fully complete the game, go pay for something you can enjoy 100%.

It would be like buying a Metroid game where I needed to grind 10 hours every week for 10 weeks to get to Norfair. I just can't do that. Instead, I'll buy Kirby where I know I can beat True Arena in a night.

Sorry if this didn't made sense, but in my head it justifies the negative effects of exclusivity in a game like WoW. It's not bad, but other games without it are better than games with it - especially when it's time-related exclusivity.

[nathrizarri]

This is on topic of "we don't need 4 raid difficulties to cater to every playstyle". Why do people feel like exclusivity is bad? Raiding used to be THE level of awesomeness you wanted to achieve. Raiding used to be nearly exclusive to guilds only, thus forcing people to find a guild if they wanted to raid. You also needed to be somewhat "good" at the game and your class if you wanted to raid. There was no hand-holding, babysitting mode. There was one mode: raid mode. You were either a raider or you weren't. It gave (some/most) non-raiders something to work towards. When I first started playing and saw everyone in their awesome raid gear, it made me want to get better. That desire pushed me into theorycrafting and made me a better player. Having that proverbial carrot-on-a-stick is healthy for the game because it breeds better players in the end, and I think we can all agree (maybe?) that the skill level of the average player has dropped considerably over the years. Why? Because there isn't just one "raid mode" anymore, you have a figurative slider bar that lets you see raid content at your skill level. For some/most, they're content doing LFR or pugging through the LFG system, even despite the better gear in heroic and mythic. They're seeing the content, getting SOME sort of character advancement, and the game ends there. Waving Mythic gear in front of people's faces isn't enough to make them want to go out and "get good" anymore like it used to.

I know common rebuttals to this usually go something like, "Well, Blizzard doesn't want to spend dev money on something that only a fraction of the players will ever see" blah blah blah. I get this point, but its very easy to justify exclusive content when the game's better days had exclusive content. When every player gets to see the Super Bowl (albeit a watered-down one), there's no drive to see a "slightly-harder mode" of the same Super Bowl.

Well let's put it this way, I played on Wrath, basically same guy but I barely managed to kill LK on 10man normal, for once I believe. Now returning to WoW at WoD I managed to make my way up from LFR to 13/13 Mythic.

This isn't because the raiding is easier but forming a good raid is easier now. Game is more accessible but not easier. This allows underdogs like me to catch-up and shine if player has a potential and tbh, raiding isn't that hard. Timers are fixed, your duty is certain. Once enough majority in the raid group establishes the correct pattern boss dies.

To me raiding should never be the ultimate challenge. It is a flawed design, basically taking what 5 mans offer and increasing it's scale, but has issues that 5-mans don't have. Thank god in Legion we can get better rewards so hopefully I can stop raiding.

After all:

IT IS A GAME!

More value and importance you put into it, emptier your life is.

[jellmoo]

I'm confused. You've pretty much dismissed the counter point out of hand, so I don't understand what you want people to say?

[Otimus]

Exclusivity is fine, so long as you don't base 99% of your meaningful content around the part that's exclusive. Which is what Blizzard used to do, and still kind of does.

Seems to me, Blizzard isn't willing to make content for most people, so they just make the content they do like to make less exclusive because either they're lazy, or they really just care about raiding, and want to push everyone into that.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Paying road tax doesn't give you a Ferrari to drive around, hard work does.
Paying for WoW doesn't give access to the hardest content, hard work does.

Simple as that.

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IT IS A GAME!

More value and importance you put into it, emptier your life is.

To some people WoW is our primary hobby, some people go partying, some people fish, some people go rock climbing.
Do you think people who go fishing every weekend have empty lives as well? Who are you to judge what people enjoy and deem it good or bad?

[Trapped]

Paying road tax doesn't give you a Ferrari to drive around, hard work does.
Paying for WoW doesn't give access to the hardest content, hard work does.

Simple as that.

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To some people WoW is our primary hobby, some people go partying, some people fish, some people go rock climbing.
Do you think people who go fishing every weekend have empty lives as well? Who are you to judge what people enjoy and deem it good or bad?

Well said, to both points.

[Kolvarg]

Special snowflaking much?

You need to understand that this is a game. I pay the same to play it as you, I should be denied content because I am not as good as you are?

You pay to play, not to win. Especially in the old days, it was much more about commitement to your character than actually being "good" tbh.

Don't get me wrong, you're free to have your opinion and to want to see the content, just don't expect people to take that much into consideration when you don't take their ideas either (by starting your post with a demeaning comment towards someone who basicly juast has a different opinion than you).

[Seefer]

Special snowflaking much?

You need to understand that this is a game. I pay the same to play it as you, I should be denied content because I am not as good as you are? And because I can't get as good as you because people don't want the particular class/spec I want to play? The super bowl analogy doesn't work as all teams have a chance to see the Super Bowl, in the old way, not everyone had a chance to see content.

Also added, that what do you give Raiders who beat the raid and were fully geared to max? There was nothing ... by adding other difficulties it allowed raiders to do more.

I pay 60 bucks for a PS4 game, if I suck at it I don't piss and moan that I couldn't beat it, and btw you pay 15 a month for access to the servers to play on not the game.

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Exclusivity is fine, so long as you don't base 99% of your meaningful content around the part that's exclusive. Which is what Blizzard used to do, and still kind of does.

Seems to me, Blizzard isn't willing to make content for most people, so they just make the content they do like to make less exclusive because either they're lazy, or they really just care about raiding, and want to push everyone into that.

You mean like with Legion with the ass load of content it has? Yeah it has a lot.