Why is exclusivity bad for WoW (and other MMOs)?

[Darththeo]

So you buy Dark Souls and are too terrible to defeat the second boss. You paid as much as I did and thusly deserve to access all content, including bosses and item drops from after the second boss. What is your course of action?

Sell the game and get some money back for it ... can I do that with wow? Can I sell wow and get a portion of my money back?
Of course this argument doesn't work with digital games, but with Dark Souls I can practice without costing me more money. Can I do that with WoW?

Single player games are not comparable to MMOs in this respect.

[Aoyi]

I was once a hardcore raider. I played most of my games on the higher difficulty settings. Then, I got burned out. I wasn't enjoying it like I once did. I took a year break and then tried it again. I got burned out again. Now, I just want to see the content for its story and move on to something else. LFR and LFG are perfect for that. If for some reason Blizzard got rid of the sliding scale, I'd probably just quit for good.

[Dormie]

I was once a hardcore raider. I played most of my games on the higher difficulty settings. Then, I got burned out. I wasn't enjoying it like I once did. I took a year break and then tried it again. I got burned out again. Now, I just want to see the content for its story and move on to something else. LFR and LFG are perfect for that. If for some reason Blizzard got rid of the sliding scale, I'd probably just quit for good.

Good riddance.

[Deleted]

this is why i won't be returning to WoW

having something to achieve and look forward to was what made the game great.
The journey you had ahead of you to get those sweet shoulders and mounts, seeing someone in full fleshed out raid gear and wanting to get that yourself was what made it awesome and a reason to keep on playing for days on end.
But then people started whining about not having enough time and not having the capabillity to clear the raids, complaining that they should get the same thing as everyone else because they're paying for the game.


If you took the Dark souls series and made it easy enough for every idiot to pick up and complete without much hazzle then the popularity of the game would drop a ton.
same thing with WoW. They removed any reason to keep on playing for longer periods of time and removed any reason to want to keep on playing after a short while. Now you have the majority of people clearing out the whole expansions and raids in just a few weeks / months and then all there is left to do is wait another 4 months for the next content patch.

At the moment you jump in for a few hours a week to clear your raid, get your loot, do your garrison to get mats and what not and then you log out.
I fail to see how this is an enjoyable experience over having to work hard and spend time on getting to where you want.
(if you can't invest the time then why should you get everything the game has to offer)

[Deleted]

Sell the game and get some money back for it ... can I do that with wow? Can I sell wow and get a portion of my money back?
Of course this argument doesn't work with digital games, but with Dark Souls I can practice without costing me more money. Can I do that with WoW?

Single player games are not comparable to MMOs in this respect.

Dark Souls is activated in Steam. You cannot sell games from your Steam library.

[Darththeo]

Dark Souls is activated in Steam. You cannot sell games from your Steam library.

Did you purposefully ignore half my post? Also, Dark Souls isn't a steam exclusive and you can buy discs for the console version. Not everyone plays games exclusively on PC.

Of course this argument doesn't work with digital games, but with Dark Souls I can practice without costing me more money. Can I do that with WoW?

I literally already addressed digital versions.

[Deleted]

Did you purposefully ignore half my post? Also, Dark Souls isn't a steam exclusive and you can buy discs for the console version. Not everyone plays games exclusively on PC.

how does the money you invest and being able to get them back have anything to do with it?

[purebalance]

Special snowflaking much?

You need to understand that this is a game. I pay the same to play it as you, I should be denied content because I am not as good as you are? And because I can't get as good as you because people don't want the particular class/spec I want to play? The super bowl analogy doesn't work as all teams have a chance to see the Super Bowl, in the old way, not everyone had a chance to see content.

Also added, that what do you give Raiders who beat the raid and were fully geared to max? There was nothing ... by adding other difficulties it allowed raiders to do more.

Games have always been that way. Players like you who don't want to get better(in life in general the same applies) just created this "special snowflake" persona when in reality it's more like you guys are the "resentful retards" who tried to act like you were somehow entitled to everything just because you paid. You aren't.

[Deleted]

Why is exclusivity bad for WoW (and other MMOs)?

It isn't bad, it's good. But there are a lot of entitled children out there that demand everything because mom and dad told them they could be president if they put their minds to it. Now everybody wants that pony, even if they don't have the skill/talent to earn it.

I'm sorry, is your argument that Mythic raiding is currently too easy? Or that you can get everything Mythic raiding rewards by doing something other than Mythic raiding, that is also extremely easy? I've tried to find it, but I seemingly can't.

[Darththeo]

how does the money you invest and being able to get them back have anything to do with it?

My point is that the single player argument doesn't hold any weight because of it. I don't have to pay 15 a month to access servers to play Dark Souls in addition to an internet connection. So I have one where all I am wasting is time, rather than time and money to get good.

It is a reason why the single player vs MMO isn't valid ... also, in single player, you don't have to rely on other players who may have different views. You can't compare an MMO to a single player game in the "get good" argument.

[Deleted]

Games have always been that way. Players like you who don't want to get better(in life in general the same applies) just created this "special snowflake" persona when in reality it's more like you guys are the "resentful retards" who tried to act like you were somehow entitled to everything just because you paid. You aren't.

Mind pointing me to those welfare mythic raid items that apparently exist in WoD, that I can't seem to find? If you are talking about LFR gear being "everything", then please realize that purple is just a color, and character power is what matters.

[Darththeo]

Games have always been that way. Players like you who don't want to get better(in life in general the same applies) just created this "special snowflake" persona when in reality it's more like you guys are the "resentful retards" who tried to act like you were somehow entitled to everything just because you paid. You aren't.

You like all others are slightly strawmanning what I stated.

[Glorious Leader]

Not for the Mythic raiders. But for the players pushed into LFR with non-raiding alternatives taken away from them as part of the "we need to justify our development resources into raiding" approach? I would say so.

Absolutely. It follows from this that they ought to stop or dramatically scale back raid production. I'm all for exclusive raids but they would consist largely of reused assets and also containlargely no power gains. They can be exclusive as hell at that point. They just have to also be worthless.

[anon5123]

You need to understand that this is a game. I pay the same to play it as you, I should be denied content because I am not as good as you are? And because I can't get as good as you because people don't want the particular class/spec I want to play?

So you're saying that just because you pay $15 every month, you're entitled to see and do everything without putting any effort in.

Pay to win, much?

[Darththeo]

So you're saying that just because you pay $15 every month, you're entitled to see and do everything without putting any effort in.

Pay to win, much?

Again, slight strawman of what I am saying. If you can't see how you strawmanned it, I don't care to reply to you further.

[anon5123]

Again, slight strawman of what I am saying. If you can't see how you strawmanned it, I don't care to reply to you further.

I'm reading it just the way you wrote it. Don't cry "STRAWMAN!!" when people call you out on being entitled.

Yes, you should be denied content if you're not good at the game. That's how difficulty works. If you want to be able to pay your way through a game's content, I think Angry Birds would be a better fit for you.

"people don't want the particular class I play" bruh this isn't vanilla. There are no "bad" classes or specs in WoD. If you're being kicked out of raids, it's because you're bad, not because your class is bad.

[Jtbrig7390]

So you're saying that just because you pay $15 every month, you're entitled to see and do everything without putting any effort in.

Pay to win, much?

No his point that you seem to ignore is in Dark Souls he pays one fee and can keep trying to get better forever.

But with WoW it is $15 a month... If it takes him 10 months to get better thats $150 he had to add to the original cost. That is why you can't compare a SP game to a MMO that has a $15 paywall.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm reading it just the way you wrote it.

No you didn't and that's why he said you are strawmanning.

[Darththeo]

I'm reading it just the way you wrote it. Don't cry "STRAWMAN!!" when people call you out on being entitled.

Yes, you should be denied content if you're not good at the game. That's how difficulty works. If you want to be able to pay your way through a game's content, I think Angry Birds would be a better fit for you.

"people don't want the particular class I play" bruh this isn't vanilla. There are no "bad" classes or specs in WoD. If you're being kicked out of raids, it's because you're bad, not because your class is bad.

Yes, because the phrase Huntard, Retard, etc ... don't exist.
You didn't read what I wrote, you chose to ADD to what I wrote.

[Deleted]

Did you purposefully ignore half my post? Also, Dark Souls isn't a steam exclusive and you can buy discs for the console version. Not everyone plays games exclusively on PC.

You are just dodging the question.

Even WoW is refundable. The argument that paying money for a game entitles you to finish that game/access all content is just hilariously stupid. And when I ask you what you do when you buy a non-WoW game and cannot access all content your answer is "I can resell it then" well no, you cannot. Not always. Sometimes yes, but not always.

If you buy a game and the games contents are unsatisfactory to you, you stop playing the game. You may try to resell it but wether or not that is an option, you will stop playing it.

Not with WoW, however. Somehow people feel super entitled here.

Somehow "Maybe this MMORPG isn't for me if I...
... do not have the time for an MMORPG."
... cannot cope with the difficulty of it."
... do not like playing with other people."
doesn't apply in WoW and it's actually quite fascinating. Why does it HAVE to be WoW? There are games for solo players. There are games for people who have only little time for games. There are games for people who cannot handle games with the difficulty level of a shape sorting cube...

Why INSIST on playing with a shape sorting cube then? Why?


Now ... nowadays this question is easy to answer. You're used to it. You've grown attached to it. You've played and (more or less) loved this game and your characters for years. This is basically the reason why I still play even tho WoW hasn't catered to me for the last 6 years or so (basically you could ask me questions akin to the ones above).

But there was a point when WoW was still somewhat demanding. When pulling too many mobs meant certain death. Where slacking often meant getting kicked from the dungeon (without a 20 minute kick restriction that is longer than an actual modern dungeon). Where making too many mistakes on a dungeon boss meant wiping. So how was it possible that at that point, a swarm of people - who apparently hated the game without having any kind of year long bond with it - kept insisting on playing it anyways and demanding it to be changed to suit them?

This is, to me, the biggest mystery of World of Warcraft.

An audience that was not the target audience of a game kept insisting for the game to get changed until it suited them. Why? Why did they not just move on to a different fucking game if they hated this one so much?

[Deleted]

I'm sorry, is your argument that Mythic raiding is currently too easy? Or that you can get everything Mythic raiding rewards by doing something other than Mythic raiding, that is also extremely easy? I've tried to find it, but I seemingly can't.

Yep content what you see in HFC you can see in LFR so yeah. Most preciouse reward what player can get is content it self. If that content is shared by small amounth of players it become super rewarding experience for ones who do it and for ones who doesnt it create mystery, thrive to get better, epicnes and most importanely a yourney.

Loot isnt exclusive. Epics rains evewhere, mounts are not exclusive there is over 300 houndreds of them and after content becomes absolote oyu can just solo farm it anyway. Achievements well nobady cares about them. People back in days were doing raiding mostly beocuse it was exclusive content with great reward. Now it is just another difficulty. Chore gear grind in content what you have alredy killed.