Why is exclusivity bad for WoW (and other MMOs)?

[anon5123]

No his point that you seem to ignore is in Dark Souls he pays one fee and can keep trying to get better forever.

But with WoW it is $15 a month... If it takes him 10 months to get better thats $150 he had to add to the original cost. That is why you can't compare a SP game to a MMO that has a $15 paywall.

1. If you're taking "10 months" to get better at WoW, you're woefully terrible at the game and should just quit

2. I'm not a part of this "dark souls" crap being discussed.

He's claiming that since he pays $15/mo, he's entitled to see everything in the game without putting in effort to improve himself. That's not how difficulty works.

If he wants to pay his way through a game's content instead of improving himself and getting better at the game, he should stick to iPhone games that allow you to do so.

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Yes, because the phrase Huntard, Retard, etc ... don't exist.

Lol. LOL

LOL
O
L

Are you seriously arguing that people aren't inviting you to raid because you're a hunter?

fucking lol.

10/10 nice trolling welcome to my ignore list

[Jtbrig7390]

1. If you're taking "10 months" to get better at WoW, you're woefully terrible at the game and should just quit

Once again your ignoring the point.

Also you are not all that smart if you want people to ether (Get Gud) or quit. You do realize more players leaving WoW is a bad thing for everyone who plays it right?

[Dormie]

No his point that you seem to ignore is in Dark Souls he pays one fee and can keep trying to get better forever.

But with WoW it is $15 a month... If it takes him 10 months to get better thats $150 he had to add to the original cost. That is why you can't compare a SP game to a MMO that has a $15 paywall.

The fee is irrelevant. You're the one choosing to pay it, if you can't pay then don't.

[Darththeo]

You are just dodging the question.

Even WoW is refundable. The argument that paying money for a game entitles you to finish that game/access all content is just hilariously stupid. And when I ask you what you do when you buy a non-WoW game and cannot access all content your answer is "I can resell it then" well no, you cannot. Not always. Sometimes yes, but not always.

How is WoW refundable? How can I get a refund on the money I spend on subscription? Also, I did mention it doesn't apply to digital releases ... and unless the disc is damaged, you can always sell the disc version.

Not with WoW, however. Somehow people feel super entitled here.

Somehow "Maybe this MMORPG isn't for me if I...
... do not have the time for an MMORPG."
... cannot cope with the difficulty of it."
... do not like playing with other people."
doesn't apply in WoW and it's actually quite fascinating. Why does it HAVE to be WoW? There are games for solo players. There are games for people who have only little time for games. There are games for people who cannot handle games with the difficulty level of a shape sorting cube...

Why INSIST on playing with a shape sorting cube then? Why?

Because they want to play and experience WoW?

Now ... nowadays this question is easy to answer. You're used to it. You've grown attached to it. You've played and (more or less) loved this game and your characters for years. This is basically the reason why I still play even tho WoW hasn't catered to me for the last 6 years or so (basically you could ask me questions akin to the ones above).

But there was a point when WoW was still somewhat demanding. When pulling too many mobs meant certain death. Where slacking often meant getting kicked from the dungeon (without a 20 minute kick restriction that is longer than an actual modern dungeon). Where making too many mistakes on a dungeon boss meant wiping. So how was it possible that at that point, a swarm of people - who apparently hated the game without having any kind of year long bond with it - kept insisting on playing it anyways and demanding it to be changed to suit them?

This is, to me, the biggest mystery of World of Warcraft.

An audience that was not the target audience of a game kept insisting for the game to get changed until it suited them. Why? Why did they not just move on to a different fucking game if they hated this one so much?

This I don't disagree or agree with. I understand why people who have been a fan of a game or series for a while want things to go a certain way but I also understand that if the game changes to something you don't like you aren't forced to play. This entire quote from you seems completely out of place.

[Jtbrig7390]

The fee is irrelevant. You're the one choosing to pay it, if you can't pay then don't.

That is true and many people have made there choice.

I was just pointing out his point that anon5123 kept ignoring. You can't compare a SP game to a MMO.

[purebalance]

You like all others are slightly strawmanning what I stated.

Not at all. You specifically are arguing that games should give you the same things because you paid regardless of skill. There is no strawman because 1) it was the argument you were making and 2) It was clearly stated in your post. Learn what a strawman is.

Games have always rewarded better players with things like special endings if you had a better rank etc.

[Darththeo]

1. If you're taking "10 months" to get better at WoW, you're woefully terrible at the game and should just quit

2. I'm not a part of this "dark souls" crap being discussed.

He's claiming that since he pays $15/mo, he's entitled to see everything in the game without putting in effort to improve himself. That's not how difficulty works.

If he wants to pay his way through a game's content instead of improving himself and getting better at the game, he should stick to iPhone games that allow you to do so.

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Lol. LOL

LOL
O
L

Are you seriously arguing that people aren't inviting you to raid because you're a hunter?

fucking lol.

10/10 nice trolling welcome to my ignore list

Literally not what I am saying, you seem to think that the raid will take anyone they want ... clearly that isn't true. The only troll here is you.

Also the first part shows how you strawmanned me. I am saying I am entitled to see content and you are conflating that with gear ... I am not entitled to the same gear or other perks as everyone else, but I am entitled to experience the story as well.

Even Dark Souls released that single difficulty games aren't that great. I am arguing for levels of difficulty NOT give me free stuff ... hence you strawmanned me into a simpler argument.

[anon5123]

Once again your ignoring the point.

You're*

Also you are not all that smart if you want people to ether (Get Gud) or quit.

It worked during vanilla and TBC, where subs just kept increasing more and more. There was no easymode faceroll raid difficulty.

The continued dumbing-down of WoW's difficulty has just bred a playerbase that, when confronted with difficulty, cry for nerfs instead of improving themselves. Really sad.

You do realize more players leaving WoW is a bad thing for everyone who plays it right?

And when things get really easy, people clear content really quickly and then flock to the forums to whine that there's "no content".

If people give up and quit when things get challenging, they're not the type of players WoW needs anyway.

[Deleted]

Exclusivity has never been a bad thing for me, I wasn't a hardcore raider in vanilla. I was in TBC and been less so since. Never did I feel like I was missing out on something I couldn't achieve if I put the effort in. In the past there were other things to do and to get enjoyment out of, most people seem to act like a raid instance should fall down on their laps and have the bosses killed without them lifting a finger because they don't have the time.

There's nothing but you standing in the way of your progress, if you don't wish to commit the amount of time and effort, then you will not have it. You will probably get more in something else due to your efforts and time being more focused on that activity. Your money doesn't entitle you to same experience and things as those who pay the same money -and- put in the time and effort. If you think it does, you are really selfish. Since essentially you are asking for same things without putting in the same contribution.

[Deleted]

Once again your ignoring the point.

Also you are not all that smart if you want people to ether (Get Gud) or quit. You do realize more players leaving WoW is a bad thing for everyone who plays it right?

only thing i realize is that people need to stop making WoW into a game for them and let WoW be WoW

if you're not good enough to warrant the money you spend on the game then you should find a new game where you feel like you're getting your moneys worth.
If you're paying for a game where you don't feel like you get enough out of it because you're being held back by your time or by your skillcap then it's not the game for you. Don't change the game.

[The One Percent]

Changing this game to suit people who didn't want to play the way it was already programmed is what killed it.

[Jtbrig7390]

only thing i realize is that people need to stop making WoW into a game for them and let WoW be WoW

if you're not good enough to warrant the money you spend on the game then you should find a new game where you feel like you're getting your moneys worth.
If you're paying for a game where you don't feel like you get enough out of it because you're being held back by your time or by your skillcap then it's not the game for you. Don't change the game

100% agree. That's that I only play WoW via buying tokens and even tho I got legion pre-ordered if the token price isn't where I like it I won't play.

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Changing this game to suit people who didn't want to play the way it was already programmed is what killed it.

Wow is dead??? Holy shit when did the servers get shutdown I must have missed the memo.

[The One Percent]

Wow is dead??? Holy shit when did the servers get shutdown I must have missed the memo.

Yeah, only a over 50% sub loss, no big deal.

[Wondercrab]

It's as simple as the numerous upsides to accessibility vastly outstripping the very few niche positives of exclusivity. WoW and Blizzard games in general have never aimed to be niche experiences.

[Darththeo]

You're*



It worked during vanilla and TBC, where subs just kept increasing more and more. There was no easymode faceroll raid difficulty.

The continued dumbing-down of WoW's difficulty has just bred a playerbase that, when confronted with difficulty, cry for nerfs instead of improving themselves. Really sad.



And when things get really easy, people clear content really quickly and then flock to the forums to whine that there's "no content".

If people give up and quit when things get challenging, they're not the type of players WoW needs anyway.

I hope you realize the irony in your post.

[Jtbrig7390]

Yeah, only a over 50% sub loss, no big deal.

Bound to happen. In TBC they was bringing in more then they was losing and now that's not the case.

Did you just think they had at one point 100 million players? Because last checked they only had 100 million accounts made and peaked at 12mil subs.

[Deleted]

I hope you realize the irony in your post.

Challenging for the players in terms of gameplay and challenging for the game are hardly two same things. There's no real "irony" to be found.

[Deleted]

WoW had enough content outside of raiding to warrant a subscription

now that they have made Raiding accessible for everyone they count it as a huge part of the content and the amount of content outside of raiding have gone down considerably.
which is sad.

[Tuesdays]

Changing this game to suit people who didn't want to play the way it was already programmed is what killed it.

You're right, the should remove all difficulties, go back to spamming 3 abilities for 11 minutes, make raid sizes 20/40 man again and grind endlessly for purples. Want to also go back to when classes had to be x, or gtfo too?

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Changing this game to suit people who didn't want to play the way it was already programmed is what killed it.

You're right, the should remove all difficulties, go back to spamming 3 abilities for 11 minutes, make raid sizes 20/40 man again and grind endlessly for purples. Want to also go back to when classes had to be x, or gtfo too?

[Deleted]

No his point that you seem to ignore is in Dark Souls he pays one fee and can keep trying to get better forever.

But with WoW it is $15 a month... If it takes him 10 months to get better thats $150 he had to add to the original cost. That is why you can't compare a SP game to a MMO that has a $15 paywall.

Then why insist on playing MMOs? Why not just say "Welp ... maybe this genre isn't for me then." and move on/back to single player games?

If I go join a soccer team, pay a monthly participation fee but am not playing in tournaments because my team wants to win and I am too bad I can...

... live with the fact that I am too bad to play in tournaments, enjoy training and sitting on the bench in tournaments.
... leave the club, stop paying my fee and move on to something that I am good at.
... improve my play so I can participate in tournaments without being a burden to my team.
... start complaining like a bitch about how I pay money and how I am entitled to drag my teams overall tournament performance down.

I'd actually be really interested in what would happen in case 3.