If it was 1 sub-race per race ...

[Zoldor]

I actually think that if Blizzard ever adds sub-races, they won't stop at simple texture additions. Rather, I think they would go all the way and put a lot of work into making 'alternate' character model options, that are still heavily based on the original models.

Night Elves -> Nightborne is a pretty good example of this, with the shared skeleton but different models entirely.

I think they could add the simple texture-only subraces, like Mag'har Orcs and Wildhammer/Dark Iron Dwarves, as inclusions to the original races skin options, instead of giving them 'sub-race' status.

It could also be an opportunity to give some races more customization options overall, like Orc posture, Human buff-ness, new hairstyles, etc.

I would hope so, but I lean to them doing more skin tone stuff than anything. Though, I would rather them do the model change, I just don't believe that is the course they would go, but I'd love for my Orcs to walk upright.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Is this a thinly veiled excuse for a High Elf thread?...because it's never going to happen.

[A Chozo]

Human? -not ripped..
worgen? - I thought the females already looked feral - wasn't that what the complaints were about? or did they just not like the current worgen female
Pandaren -- are you think of Mogu? if so I like
Goblin - fat goblins? they should exist though, but that's not a sub-race, nor are "not-ripped" humans wow just doesn't show size variations within a race, you have to think of a politically differnet group or a slight genetic variation of an existing group - but usually sub-races tend to be slight genetic variations to give you a customised look.
Blood elf - you can't give nightborne to blood elf ahead night elf nor ahead of all the other blood elf possibilities including San'layan, Fel-blood elves, Darkfallen, Wretched etc. Nightborne on blood elf is possible but too low down the list. Besieds, Nightborne is a variation of Night elf not blood elf. Blood elf is a variation of night elf too, but not of nightbonre.

My suggestion of subraces was made based on cultures that could easly belong to the starting zone experience/current playable factions, and I'm aware that some of what proposed weren't subraces - that's because I couldn't find actual subraces for those groups that could FIT with the current playable factions. Keep in mind that a Dark Iron Dwarf and a Wildhammer Dwarf could totally belong to Ironforge, while a sizable Mogu faction would never belong to the playable Pandaren factions.

"weak" - physiche humans, feral female worgens (the current ones resemble chihuahuas), feral-like Pandarens (there are artwork of some baddass-but-furry Pandarens, and there are artworks of very cute Pandarens. And then, there's the playable Pandaren, who are... fat.), chubby goblins... It would simply add more options.

And the elves? If the Alliance, someday, get High Elves, who look like Blood Elves but with blue eyes, IMO the horde should get an Alliance look-a-like race, to even things out - that's why I proposed nightborne for the Horde.

[In Ogres We Trust]

So asking the community, when it comes to sub-races if blizzard started with just 1 per race for the first round, which do you think would be picked for each race?

Alliance
Draenei: Broken
Dwarf: Dark Iron and Wildhammer
Gnome: N/A
Human: N/A
Night Elf: Highborne or Nightborne
Worgen: N/A

Horde
Blood Elf: N/A
Goblin: Hobgoblin
Orc: Black, Brown, and Grey Skins
Tauren: Highmountain and Taunka
Troll: Forest Troll
Undead: Undead Elf

Neutral
Pandaren: N/A

[Deleted]

Hard to say. Some races have pretty obvious option (Orc, Tauren, Troll, Dwarf, Forsaken) others are highly problematic (Human, Pandaren, Elves)
Also technically we can't give less than two subraces as the regular one will be one of the subraces.
What I suggest to make it even possible:

- Change neutral races to one subrace joining the Horde and the other the alliance. Automatically.
- Make the reddish colored (red panda) Pandaren a different subrace (maybe the Horde one).
- Make elves a neutral race with night elf and blood elf as subraces
- Give humans two subraces: Stormwind Human and Gilnean Human (AKA Worgen)
- Give a new Alliance race to make the total number of races even again.

[Spl4sh3r]

Draenei - Nobundo-type Draenei
Human - Black Human
Night Elf - Nightborne (Suramar)
Dwarf - Dark Iron
Gnome - Trogg?
Worgen - Tol'vir?
Pandaren - Tuskarr?
Orc - Draenor Iron Horde Orc (Brown)
Tauren - Yaungol
Troll - Zandalari or Amani
Goblin - Gilblin (Aquatic Goblin-type)
Blood Elf - Fel Elf
Forsaken - Elf-type Forsaken

Wouldn't it be Leper Gnome for Gnomes, Elf-type forsaken is the San'Layn or Darkfallen.

Other than that I would be against your Worgen sub-race. The only thing I can think of is a different colored fur (like if they lived in Northrend or on some type of tropical island).

[Beloren]

Really they are all Night Elves just various branches, castes, but blizz decided to use a sub race to give Horde pretty people.

I actually explain this more farther down in my post and again after the quote I used. The reason I give Highborne to the Night Elves and Nightborne to the blood elves is really less lore and more aesthetics. Nightborne (beyond the model) aren't really that drastically different skin tone, hair etc than Night Elves while Highborne give them a little more. Again not a lot at all wither way for Night Elves.

Lorewise yes, Nightborne make the most sense for night Elves, while High borne make the most sense for Blood Elves. Sticking with who betrayed who and who tends to side more with the "evil" sides of elves and power concerns.

it could work, i'm not disagreeing, it's just that they both have too much going for them with the night elf groups. I heard a suggestion a while ago that a way they could make highborne a physically different night elf sub-race was if they used the blood elf model for them and just coloured them as night elves adjusting ears and eyes.

after seeing nightborne though, it's more likely that if they were to distinguish highborne from other night elves they'd re-colour the nightborne model instead of the blood elf one.

In Truth the Order is Night Elf divides into Highborne and Lowborne (not really aesthtically different is caste system). Highborne divides down once it becomes legion bound into Highborne who follow Azashara all the way and Nightborne (who decided to stop siding with the Legion once they realized they were going to loose Suramar) and Blood Elves come later as we all know once they are the remains of Highborne who drank from the well.

The nightborne aren't totally innocent either though, they sided with the Legion for a decent part until they realized they were going to get royally dicked over because of the portal and stopped it. Actually looking at more pictures, Nightborne and Highborne both don''t add a lot aesthetically to Night Elves, unless you give them the new model. And as I stated I'm not 100% sure Blizzard is going to give new models to some races and not all races.

The most ignorant is thinking Humans would get Vrykul as a sub-race.

Wait, I thought Highborne were the Queen's favoured group, since everyone simply adored Azshara, everyone wanted to be in her special group, , a group she would handpick all the talent she would come across, and in time they had children and formed a caste.

I'm not sure though if all the nobility were "highborne", I think Highborne were one of the reasons Azshara mainted power so well, I think other nobles had other schemes, but highborne stood out for the role they played in summoning the legion even though it was those more those who were close to the Queen in Zin'Azshari, as we findo ut quite a few in other cities rebelled and fought.

Also, I thought the nightborne split into two groups with the second arrival of the Legion, the group that accepted the legion, and the group that formed a resistance to take down that group and free the city. Most nighborne were in the middle of this with the majority not preferring the legion, but feeling trapped and too scared to resist for fear of being thrown out of the city and becoming withered. So the actions of the resistance stirs their hearts to remember their heroic heritage and fight. Remember the night elves that overthrew Azshara and defeated the legion came from Suramar - Tyrande/Malfurion/Jarod/Maiev/Illidan are all from Suramar. In fact, Suramar may have been the first Night Elven capital before Zin'Azshari was built, the HQ for Priesthood of Elune is in Suramar, it is what is now the Tomb of Sargeras that the demons are pouring out off.

Sub-races aren't meant to add too much aesthetically, the whole point is that they're easier to do than a full race and are an alternative appearance but also an alternative fantasy of playing a race.

e.g. don't want to play goody goody light blessed Draenei ? you can play a sneakier broken or a very chaotic Eredar living on the darkside
don't want to play a more violent green orc? well you can play a more shamanistically rooted Mag'har
feel night elves feel a bit too nature for your liking (despite the presence of highborne), then you have a more powerful fantasy as an arcane wielding night elf sub-group in the nightborne

loved the mana sucking Blood elf vibe - gutted they were redeemed? well you can play a mana-sucking Wretched, or a blood sucking San'layan


Sub-races offer both a cosmetic variation/alternative to your fave race but also an alternative fantasy to them.

[Leodok]

Humans: Hm... azotha is the best one I can think of, though I don't really like it that much.
Dwarves: Dark Iron dwarves (add some physical differences there. Maybe they're less muscular, or uglier, I don't know)(also add tatoos for both Dark Iron and Bronzebeard).
Gnomes: Some previously unknown race created by Mimiron.
Night elves: Nightborne.
Draenei: I don't know if the Light somehow changed the appearence of the draenei. If so, then a sub-race of eredar with no Light or Fel modifications could be added. Arcane magic can also change the appearence of a race after some time and the eredar were pretty good with arcane, so a arcane influenced sub-race of eredar can work as well.
Worgens: Night elf worgens (more slender than human ones).

Orcs: Shattered Hand (more skin colors are also added to regular orcs).
Tauren: Taunka.
Trolls: Forest trolls (they're pretty much equal to ice trolls besides skin color, so add some "ice troll" skin colors too)
Undead: Undead elves? A different kind of undead?
Blood elves: Half-elves (they could be a human sub-race as well, but humans have a few more options so I put half-elves here).
Goblins: A different kind of goblin, maybe a stronger one.

Pandaren: A group of pandaren that separated from the rest of their civilization because adventure/mogu/disagreements, went to somewhere and evolved a bit.

Edit: I've tried to have enough difference between the sub-race and the basic version (not just skin color or stuff like that), without making them too different (they can all be reskins of the basic versions, unlike the broken draenei for example).

[Deleted]

Not really sub-races but here goes:

Human -> High Elf (just to give the elves to alliance)
Dwarf -> Dark Iron
Gnomes -> Mechgnome (limited to Warrior, Hunter, Rogue)
Nelf -> Furbolg (Druid, Priest, Shaman)
Draenei -> Broken (No Paladin)
Worgen -> Wolvar?

Orc -> Mag'har
Tauren -> Jalgar [Furbolg but more primitive/savage/primal] (Druid, Priest, Shaman)
Troll -> Berserker (limited to Warrior, Hunter, Rogue)
Goblin -> Gilbin
Undead -> San'layn/Darkfallen
Blood Elf -> Wretched (No Paladin)

[lightofdawn]

they shouldn't add subraces... because if most of the suggestions in this thread were put into the game as subraces they wouldnt even make sense.

if anything, add more customization options to what we have now.

[Beloren]

Humans: Hm... azotha is the best one I can think of, though I don't really like it that much.
Dwarves: Dark Iron dwarves (add some physical differences there. Maybe they're less muscular, or uglier, I don't know)(also add tatoos for both Dark Iron and Bronzebeard).
Gnomes: Some previously unknown race created by Mimiron.
Night elves: Nightborne.
Draenei: I don't know if the Light somehow changed the appearence of the draenei. If so, then a sub-race of eredar with no Light or Fel modifications could be added. Arcane magic can also change the appearence of a race after some time and the eredar were pretty good with arcane, so a arcane influenced sub-race of eredar can work as well.
Worgens: Night elf worgens (more slender than human ones).

Orcs: Shattered Hand (more skin colors are also added to regular orcs).
Tauren: Taunka.
Trolls: Forest trolls (they're pretty much equal to ice trolls besides skin color, so add some "ice troll" skin colors too)
Undead: Undead elves? A different kind of undead?
Blood elves: Half-elves (they could be a human sub-race as well, but humans have a few more options so I put half-elves here).
Goblins: A different kind of goblin, maybe a stronger one.

Pandaren: A group of pandaren that separated from the rest of their civilization because adventure/mogu/disagreements, went to somewhere and evolved a bit.

Edit: I've tried to have enough difference between the sub-race and the basic version (not just skin color or stuff like that), without making them too different (they can all be reskins of the basic versions, unlike the broken draenei for example).

why didn't you go for Zandalari troll? and Eredar could work, I mean if demons could join up with Illidan, Eredar could turn around, or maybe a group of draenei trying to escape still got caught up, or over time some tried to return to the old ways, and have been secretly fighting a way, maybe Illidan gets to meet them and they play a crucial role in the plans to hit Argus.

I have no idea what to do with PAndaren, Worgen have the Blackhowl possibility, which isgood

[Deleted]

Human - High Elf (bet you didn't see that one coming) / Vrykul
Dwarf - Dark Iron/Wildhammer
Night elf - Nightborne/Dryads
Gnome - Mechanic Gnome
Draenei - Broken
Worgen - ummm... no clue. How about night elves that are worgen... or those cat people?

Orc - Mag'har Orc
Troll - Zandalari Troll/ Forest Troll
Tauren - Taunka
Undead - Abominations/ Skeletons / Banshees
Blood elf - Nightborne / Undead Elf
Goblin - Hogoblin?

Pandaren - Furbolg

[Beloren]

they shouldn't add subraces... because if most of the suggestions in this thread were put into the game as subraces they wouldnt even make sense.

if anything, add more customization options to what we have now.

how do you mean they wouldn't make sense? and don't forget you can invent lore, which is exactly what blizzard do every expansion with sub-races.

This expansion we get 2 night elf sub-races: Nightborne and ghost night elves; 1 Tauren sub-race: Highmountain, possibly two if you technically count the Drogbar

and if you look back in every expansion we always see new ones, they seem to come out of the air. or maybe they're just blizzards way of bringing new lore for each race, but doing it in an exciting way, with new variations rather than just hey lets just plack normal night elves in Suramar or normal tauren in Highmountain - why don't we do something different, cool with them.

it's essentially the race in a new light, and slightly altered.. everywhere you get this, that should qualify as a sub-race.

The only ones I'll struggle with are:

1. Pandaren
2. Human - vrykul and half elf whiles possible i'm like erh

Worgen is easy : Blackhowl worgen and also just give night elf worgen a different model

[Zoldor]

it could work, i'm not disagreeing, it's just that they both have too much going for them with the night elf groups. I heard a suggestion a while ago that a way they could make highborne a physically different night elf sub-race was if they used the blood elf model for them and just coloured them as night elves adjusting ears and eyes.

after seeing nightborne though, it's more likely that if they were to distinguish highborne from other night elves they'd re-colour the nightborne model instead of the blood elf one.


Wait, I thought Highborne were the Queen's favoured group, since everyone simply adored Azshara, everyone wanted to be in her special group, , a group she would handpick all the talent she would come across, and in time they had children and formed a caste.

I'm not sure though if all the nobility were "highborne", I think Highborne were one of the reasons Azshara mainted power so well, I think other nobles had other schemes, but highborne stood out for the role they played in summoning the legion even though it was those more those who were close to the Queen in Zin'Azshari, as we findo ut quite a few in other cities rebelled and fought.

Also, I thought the nightborne split into two groups with the second arrival of the Legion, the group that accepted the legion, and the group that formed a resistance to take down that group and free the city. Most nighborne were in the middle of this with the majority not preferring the legion, but feeling trapped and too scared to resist for fear of being thrown out of the city and becoming withered. So the actions of the resistance stirs their hearts to remember their heroic heritage and fight. Remember the night elves that overthrew Azshara and defeated the legion came from Suramar - Tyrande/Malfurion/Jarod/Maiev/Illidan are all from Suramar. In fact, Suramar may have been the first Night Elven capital before Zin'Azshari was built, the HQ for Priesthood of Elune is in Suramar, it is what is now the Tomb of Sargeras that the demons are pouring out off.

Sub-races aren't meant to add too much aesthetically, the whole point is that they're easier to do than a full race and are an alternative appearance but also an alternative fantasy of playing a race.

e.g. don't want to play goody goody light blessed Draenei ? you can play a sneakier broken or a very chaotic Eredar living on the darkside
don't want to play a more violent green orc? well you can play a more shamanistically rooted Mag'har
feel night elves feel a bit too nature for your liking (despite the presence of highborne), then you have a more powerful fantasy as an arcane wielding night elf sub-group in the nightborne

loved the mana sucking Blood elf vibe - gutted they were redeemed? well you can play a mana-sucking Wretched, or a blood sucking San'layan


Sub-races offer both a cosmetic variation/alternative to your fave race but also an alternative fantasy to them.

Yeah, I figured some kind of Blood Elf/Highborne style if Night Elf got Highborne.

But I like the take in your second portion on them kind of bringing a sense of difference to the horde and alliance through the sub races. Able to make the Alliance seem a little less goody goody and horde the bad guys.

[lightofdawn]

how do you mean they wouldn't make sense? and don't forget you can invent lore, which is exactly what blizzard do every expansion with sub-races.

This expansion we get 2 night elf sub-races: Nightborne and ghost night elves; 1 Tauren sub-race: Highmountain, possibly two if you technically count the Drogbar

and if you look back in every expansion we always see new ones, they seem to come out of the air. or maybe they're just blizzards way of bringing new lore for each race, but doing it in an exciting way, with new variations rather than just hey lets just plack normal night elves in Suramar or normal tauren in Highmountain - why don't we do something different, cool with them.

it's essentially the race in a new light, and slightly altered.. everywhere you get this, that should qualify as a sub-race.

The only ones I'll struggle with are:

1. Pandaren
2. Human - vrykul and half elf whiles possible i'm like erh

Worgen is easy : Blackhowl worgen and also just give night elf worgen a different model

nightborne are more similar to blood elves than night elves when you look into their story. only thing that would say otherwise is the "night" tones that the night elves and nightborne have. but that's whatever

also drogbar are not in any way related to the tauren (there's one of those examples that would make zero sense in game)

what people don't seem to get is that a different coloration (blackhowl worgen) wouldn't be considered a subrace. its just another customization option...

another point: night elf worgen? they were all trapped in the emerald dream. they aren't playable as is, players are gilnean worgen.

[Beloren]

But I like the take in your second portion on them kind of bringing a sense of difference to the horde and alliance through the sub races. Able to make the Alliance seem a little less goody goody and horde the bad guys.

exactly... they offer a different fantasy for playing a race group, and make the race groups a lot more interesting without altering them, because the sub-race element usually has a different primary focus.

[Lumineus]

Human - Vrykul (no Warlocks, maybe Druids?)
Dwarf - Dark Iron (for the glowing eyes; Wildhammer tats and Frostborn skin can just be added as an option on the regular dwarf)
Gnome - Mechagnome
Night Elf - High Elf (Paladin replaces Druid)
Draenei - Broken (Rogue/Druid replace Paladin/Priest)
Worgen - Acolyte of the Fang (Night Elf base form)

Orc - Blackrock Orc: larger, possible stony features? (brown and red skins should just be part of the base model)
Tauren - Highmountain (seems like the easiest to get expressive faces out of)
Troll - Zandalari (Paladins instead of Warlocks)
Forsaken - San'layn (I like the idea someone had of Skeletons too, but not sure if there's enough customization there)
Blood Elf - Felblood Elf (can't be Paladins)
Goblin - Gilblin

Not sure what to do with Pandaren; making them Furbolgs seems silly, but it would give them a modified model and access to a new class.

[Beloren]

nightborne are more similar to blood elves than night elves when you look into their story. only thing that would say otherwise is the "night" tones that the night elves and nightborne have. but that's whatever

also drogbar are not in any way related to the tauren (there's one of those examples that would make zero sense in game)

what people don't seem to get is that a different coloration (blackhowl worgen) wouldn't be considered a subrace. its just another customization option...

another point: night elf worgen? they were all trapped in the emerald dream. they aren't playable as is, players are gilnean worgen.

nightborne are similar to blood elves because they are elves, and they all come from night elves, they are more similar to night elves than they are to blood elves you do realize that you are looking at a pre-sundering night elven civilzization and city, and nightborne come from night elves, not blood elves, blood elves come from high elves who come from night elves.

have you heard of the Highborne? The night elven highborne? well the nightborne are very similar to them, they are night elves. Not all night elves are tree huggers you know, some are priestesses, some are sentinel warriors, some are hunters, and some are highborne mages. Just cos a large group of them have been living in the sticks to protect our asses doesn't mean they all live in the sticks, and certainly not all of them clearly stopped using magic - cos that's how you get the nightborne shal'dorei and how you get the Shen'drelar highborne quel'dorei.

Did the similar look, model frame base of night elf, phraseology, or the name of the city, how bout cues like nightborne , nightwell, night elf. Whiles blood elves ofc have a connection to the nightborne, like they do to the night elves, surely even you can see the nightborne are night elf.

As for Drogbar, yes I was reaching, I forgot what blizzard said about them at gamescom about their origin - whether it was a new race or connected to an already known race.

Night elf worgen aren't all trapped in the emerald dream, one of the Legion druid quests has you use the scythe of Elune to cure and bring balance to a night elf worgen. ON using it on him he transforms back to a night elf and thanks you mentioning the last thing he remembered in the emerald dream thousands of years ago. But people have mentioned it cos they know night elves were the first worgen, and all they would need to do would be alter their model slightly.

[Alanar]

humans - i'm not sure, honestly. vrykul don't work, imo.

night elves - nightborne.

dwarves - dark iron.

gnomes - not sure. leper gnomes don't mesh with gnomish society.

worgen - none known, i think.

draenei - broken maybe, but i could see them as a separate race all together. maybe reformed man'ari?

orcs - mag'har.

blood elves - high elves.

tauren - taunka.

goblins - gilblins maybe, not sure.

trolls - forest trolls

forsaken - undead elf

pandaren- none known? not sure.

By far the most reasonable list I have seen.. realy happy some one is on the same line with me regarding Vrykul and High elves..

I would love to see Vrykul but more of their own race, they have enought unique things to be it's own race.

High elves is something that should be a subrce to blood elves if anything race at all.

In short.. use models that share the model of the already excisting races.. not add elves races to forsaken or half elf human models to blood elf model.. it doesn't make sense.

[Lumineus]

Meh, not by far the most bland and Horde-biased if you ask me. I hope they put a lot more work into them than "adjust hue slider on skin texture, wuss out on interesting Alliance subcultures, save all effort for modelling Taunka heads."