Legion: Elemental Specific

[Deleted]

If its not obvious to yourselves, then there's no help. Too much time already wasted for you. I'm simply flashed by such ignorance.

[binkenstein]

Some of the things changed/added/kept for Elemental are good/bad. That sentence pretty much covers everything.

The problem is that Developers have a goal in mind, and they want to stick to it. Talking about balance change level stuff is mostly easy to do and changes have been made from that, but changing some of the larger things either involves larger buy-in from the Devs (as it'll require more work to change and waste time previously spent doing something) or completely re-doing other things. eg: The Fist of Ra-Den is apparently a "lightning" thing because of Throne of Thunder, but reading the lore text during the new start section of the Artifact Quest has things like Ra (Ra-Den is Mogu for Master Ra) literally creating the Elemental Planes to imprison the Elemental Lords in, but somehow the art and trait design primarily focuses on Lightning (ie: Air).

Certain feedback posts on the forums are also not helping things. Asking for spells to be returned doesn't help when you're not identifying the problem isn't helping.

[garonne]

Certain feedback posts on the forums are also not helping things. Asking for spells to be returned doesn't help when you're not identifying the problem isn't helping.

you should probably address your sheep in that regard

[gambit998]

Well thats really uncalled for, If people happen to agree on the same issue does that make them sheep or people that are talking and looking at the problems at hand?

Sad that this is coming to name calling and it is not needed. I agree with Binkenstein on most of his things same with UcanDoSht. Some things i do not, people are entilted tothere own opinions of any matter and if you disagree with them be constructive in the way you disagree. the in fighting among st ourselves is really really bad.

[garonne]

Well thats really uncalled for, If people happen to agree on the same issue does that make them sheep or people that are talking and looking at the problems at hand?

Sad that this is coming to name calling and it is not needed. I agree with Binkenstein on most of his things same with UcanDoSht. Some things i do not, people are entilted tothere own opinions of any matter and if you disagree with them be constructive in the way you disagree. the in fighting among st ourselves is really really bad.

sheeps are individuals who have no opinion for themselves and hence can't prove "their points". following the shepherd, hence the sheep.

[binkenstein]

you should probably address your sheep in that regard

sheeps are individuals who have no opinion for themselves and hence can't prove "their points". following the shepherd, hence the sheep.

I don't understand this. You say that I should speak to people who blindly follow me and repeat whatever I say about refraining from saying stuff that I don't think is helpful? That's completely contradictory.

[Riistov]

sheeps are individuals who have no opinion for themselves and hence can't prove "their points". following the shepherd, hence the sheep.

Actually, using Binkenstein's math/guides is a great way to prove a point.

Not sure why you're taking issue with someone who has had a positive influence on the Shaman community. If that's not the case, maybe you could clarify?

[garonne]

context is key. i have no problems with bink, we may have our differences of opinions (and i've never argued his math) on legion ele but you may want to read the previous pages of the thread before stating things you know nothing about.

[trm90]

Some of the things changed/added/kept for Elemental are good/bad. That sentence pretty much covers everything.

The problem is that Developers have a goal in mind, and they want to stick to it. Talking about balance change level stuff is mostly easy to do and changes have been made from that, but changing some of the larger things either involves larger buy-in from the Devs (as it'll require more work to change and waste time previously spent doing something) or completely re-doing other things. eg: The Fist of Ra-Den is apparently a "lightning" thing because of Throne of Thunder, but reading the lore text during the new start section of the Artifact Quest has things like Ra (Ra-Den is Mogu for Master Ra) literally creating the Elemental Planes to imprison the Elemental Lords in, but somehow the art and trait design primarily focuses on Lightning (ie: Air).

Very interesting you mention this. I wonder if they've "attuned" him to lightning simply because he was imprisoned for so long? He was also assigned to kill Al'Akir. Together with his ability to create an elemental plane, it's possible that he's simply more familiar with the element in that regard. Regardless, I haven't been able to do the quest yet.

Certain feedback posts on the forums are also not helping things. Asking for spells to be returned doesn't help when you're not identifying the problem isn't helping.

Couldn't agree with this more. To anyone reading this and thinking about posting feedback, it doesn't matter how upset you are over certain changes, always add constructive suggestions, make your posts look clean and readable, and don't be a drama queen. Even if you look at other classes, take a look at posters like Gardiff (resto), Totallite (priests mostly), or Archimitros (arms). They point out pressing issues but back it up with actual numbers or suggestions for new skills in a well-written way, without ever having a tantrum.

I don't think the removal SWG will be a big deal, with Earthen rage, Icefury & Spamable shocks, the hole left by SWG will be probably only matter in PvP if you chose Ascendance.

Unleash was simply a button that was pretty high on the "to be pruned" list, the spell itself wasn't really worthy of a button in my view.

I rather would've seen like a minor sprint if you go into Ghostwolf.

m not really a fan of raidbuffs that are just a flat increase.

It's the same thing as with Stormlash and BoM, you are not going to notice a really major difference unless you're looking at a damage meter, neither buffs have any impact on the Supporting person nor the person that receives the buff. (Or the buff is just really overpowered)

All this support stuff should be handled in a way that it impacts other people's play, else it's just not fun, another CD for Bl phase is not my understanding of fun.

I agree with you on all these points really. TBH, I'm at a loss as to what Elemental could bring to a raid -- I was also thinking of an AoE Spiritwalker's Grace (20 yard AoE, 10 sec duration, 3 min CD), but it could be less useful than it looks. With such a wide array of classes and seeing how PvE has developed in WoW for the last decade, unique raid utility ends up being gimmicky or broken, and generic raid utility "works", but like you say, is very boring and doesn't add anything.

[Deleted]

Hey, guys. Have fun with current Elemental talents + the new talent change restriction. This happens everytime you think it cant get worse.

[Kuriyama]

Hey, guys. Have fun with current Elemental talents + the new talent change restriction. This happens everytime you think it cant get worse.

Sod that. I'm playing Moonkin instead.

[DarkAmbient]

Hey, guys. Have fun with current Elemental talents + the new talent change restriction. This happens everytime you think it cant get worse.

Can you explain what this means?

[trm90]

From Watcher's recent posts, you can now swap between specs for free but can only swap talents with a special item created by Scribes.

We have to see how this will work in practice, mostly because a) I'm pretty sure people can TP home, swap specs, and get summoned back (which is tedious) + b) the talent-swapping item could be easier to obtain than we think. In the case it's painful to swap talents, ALL classes are heavily restricted by this, even pure DPS specs - artifacts and legendaries will, in progression, discourage swapping specs altogether. In the case of Elemental, our damage talent tiers can roughly be broken down into damage types (AoE or ST) like so:

T15: AoE/ST/ST
T60: *Mostly* ST
T75: ST / mostly ST / AoE
T90: AoE / ST / ST
T100: ST / ST / AoE

There's also added layers of complexity if you wanted a more movement-oriented talent build. Basically, the end result is that if you've specced for e.g. a "Patchwerk" spec which is lower mobility and higher ST damage (e.g. Totem Mastery/Elemental Blast/Ascendance), you'll miss out on a lot of DPS potential on high-movement and/or AoE fights, which can be fixed if you're allowed to swap multiple talent roles.

Blizzard are really playing with fire IMO, but again, this all depends on how they implement the Scribe item. If it's easy for guilds to gather loads of them, I doubt this will be an issue. Watcher also mentioned that they don't like how people are swapping talents for trash and then to something else for bosses, which could also be easily solved by a short talent swap cooldown.

[Kralljin]

Very interesting you mention this. I wonder if they've "attuned" him to lightning simply because he was imprisoned for so long?

Ra-den is / was the "greatest" Servant of Aman'thul, Aman'thul itself is kinda based off Zeus, hence the relation to Lightning.

Mogu Legend also calls Ra-den "The Storm", hence his title in ToT <Fallen Keeper of Storms>.

From a Lore POV the focus on Lightning for the artifact itself makes sense, since Ra-den has clearly a strong relation to Lightning, the main issue is kinda to still embrace the theme of Elemental Shaman which is the mastery of ALL Elements and not just one.

They tried to fix that by basically making the Shield the "lock" to the Elemental Planes while the Fist is the "key" and as Shaman you are basically opening that lock and unleash the powers of the Elemental planes.

Problem is, that is not really reflected in the artifact itself, while some artifact traits are obviously based on other Elements than Lightning, the very strong focus on Lightning persists.

Could have also been a conscious decision since Lightning is / was the Main Element of an Elemental Shaman.

I agree with you on all these points really. TBH, I'm at a loss as to what Elemental could bring to a raid -- I was also thinking of an AoE Spiritwalker's Grace (20 yard AoE, 10 sec duration, 3 min CD), but it could be less useful than it looks.

Unlikely since Aspect of the Fox from Hunters basically did this and said ability went out of the window with 6.2.

[Deleted]

Not to mention that herbs will be much more expensive in Legion than the current price of 1-2g per herb. This will be more brutal than the previous cost of changing specs.

[binkenstein]

Hey, guys. Have fun with current Elemental talents + the new talent change restriction. This happens everytime you think it cant get worse.

I've been thinking for a while that if I stay Elemental it'll be with one swiss-army-knife talent setup, aka "does single target damage" because who really cares about talenting into AoE damage for the most part?

Ra-den is / was the "greatest" Servant of Aman'thul, Aman'thul itself is kinda based off Zeus, hence the relation to Lightning.

Mogu Legend also calls Ra-den "The Storm", hence his title in ToT <Fallen Keeper of Storms>.

From a Lore POV the focus on Lightning for the artifact itself makes sense, since Ra-den has clearly a strong relation to Lightning, the main issue is kinda to still embrace the theme of Elemental Shaman which is the mastery of ALL Elements and not just one.

They tried to fix that by basically making the Shield the "lock" to the Elemental Planes while the Fist is the "key" and as Shaman you are basically opening that lock and unleash the powers of the Elemental planes.

Problem is, that is not really reflected in the artifact itself, while some artifact traits are obviously based on other Elements than Lightning, the very strong focus on Lightning persists.

Could have also been a conscious decision since Lightning is / was the Main Element of an Elemental Shaman.

The only problem with the Lightning Focus is that it leaves Fire "out in the cold" so to speak and has resulted in "superbuffed" lightning bolts still being a lower priority than lava burst.

[Deleted]

I switched after the disastrous WoD beta and I never regretted it. As a Mage your life is so much easier and you've half the work most of the time.

Good luck and have fun with any class you chose to play, Bink - Elemental community will now probably lose its last theory crafter.

[Enzyr]

I dont know if you guys have noticed this. But i was playing around with the artifact traits and i noticed the fact that we as elemental have to get our artifact to lvl 30 to get our 3 major traits we will have to gather 330k Artifact power.. for enhancement, the case is that they need lvl 25, which is 90k Artifact power.
It is the same case with boomies only needing lvl 25.. is it just me or are we getting major shafted early on, because of our apparant need to farm over 3 times as much artifact power just to get the 3 most powerful traits in there? Affliction is even easier only needing lvl 24..

[Kralljin]

I've been thinking for a while that if I stay Elemental it'll be with one swiss-army-knife talent setup, aka "does single target damage" because who really cares about talenting into AoE damage for the most part?

One purpose of this restrictive talent system is probably to make Mythic + dungeons harder, the only time i've been really switching a lot of talents within a short timeframe to maximize output was Challenge modes.

For raiding i think it will be just a hassle but not really a major factor, if an Encounter really requires AoE damage, you'll still go for AoE talents.

Outside of that people will mostly roll with the talent has use in almost any situation.

What i dislike about this system that it punishes people who want to toy around with talents to see what's best.

The only problem with the Lightning Focus is that it leaves Fire "out in the cold" so to speak and has resulted in "superbuffed" lightning bolts still being a lower priority than lava burst.

True but it seems to be intended, Power of the Maelstrom pretty much wants you to fish for a Proc before you fire off those Supercharged Lightning bolt.

[Rezhka]

One purpose of this restrictive talent system is probably to make Mythic + dungeons harder, the only time i've been really switching a lot of talents within a short timeframe to maximize output was Challenge modes.

For raiding i think it will be just a hassle but not really a major factor, if an Encounter really requires AoE damage, you'll still go for AoE talents.

Outside of that people will mostly roll with the talent has use in almost any situation.

What i dislike about this system that it punishes people who want to toy around with talents to see what's best.

I think they do that for Inscription profession sake. Since they removed Major Glyph, the profession is basically nothing. Not even this new boss buff scroll can help imo. And with this new retalent tome, it even feels more forced.

Anyway, Is SK and PoTM actually have fixed three charges number now? Because I just checked on wowhead's tooltip recently, it shows three. But I remember they keep nerfing the charges to two the latest I know. And none of the previous alpha patch notes mention about they revert the charges back to three.