Casualization is the biggest problem wow: True or false

[Derpling]

Casuals ruined the game. Everything is watered down, too easy, and gear =welfare. Can't really argue with that.

You can, in fact, argue with that. Many people have and will again.

[Teebone]

False. Self-important entitled assholes who think everyone should play like them in "their" game is and always will be the biggest problem in WoW. Trust me; they will be the only ones left. And once there's no one left to fawn over them? Hopefully they go all Jonestown about it.

[Zarriya]

True. But it does depend on YOUR meaning of casualisation. And not everything that has been made "casual" is a negative.

Positive casualisation:
- no more weaponskills
- no more annoying /trade spamming
- no more insane amount of clicking pér corpse but massloot
- mounts at level 20 (or even level 1)
- map with questing areas
- duo spec

negative casualisation:
- outdoor world is trivial and everyone wants to plow through it asap to be done with it BECAUSE it is trivial
- dungeons are trivial and everyone wants to plow through it asap to be done with it BECAUSE it is trivial
- teleportation towards a dungeon via LFX-tool
- garrions and how they were implemented suited the casual player but removed any need for the player who had more time to spend to spend that time in WoW.
- etc

So yes casualisation did make people leave. But I think if Blizzard did "OTHER" casualisationstuff instead, it would be far less of an exodus.
And I do not blame the casuals themselves. I haven't heard anyone for a teleport towards those dungeons. Sure now that they have it, they won't let go of it. But no one complained about them before.

Good post ( I am being sincere) however I have a different idea of casualisation from your list:

Positive casualisation:

- no more annoying /trade spamming
- no more insane amount of clicking pér corpse but massloot
- duo spec (this one I go back and forth on)

negative casualisation:
- map with questing areas
- mounts at level 20 (or even level 1)
- no more weaponskills
- outdoor world is trivial and everyone wants to plow through it asap to be done with it BECAUSE it is trivial
- dungeons are trivial and everyone wants to plow through it asap to be done with it BECAUSE it is trivial
- teleportation towards a dungeon via LFX-tool
- garrions and how they were implemented suited the casual player but removed any need for the player who had more time to spend to spend that time in WoW.

My additions: Wow Token, xp increases and Boosts - VERY negative!

[Teebone]

Let me know when you can prove it has anything to do with an mmo being hardcore.

Wildstar Called. It would like to discuss sub numbers with you.

[Traveler Voltin]

Let me know when you can prove it has anything to do with an mmo being hardcore.

Wildstar.
Seriously.

[Marrilaife]

Of course it's true but you won't get the truth here or reddit or any community website there are too many casuals that like the instant ezpz wow the way it is.

That's the most hilarious statement I've ever seen. Most "forums" and "communities" are full of hardcores, tryhards and wannabe-s who moan and cry about how everything should be hardcore uphill through snow, beat the "entitled special snowflake kiddie generation of current gamers" to the ground, strip everyone of everything except them themselves. Elevate them (and only them) to a pedestal at the expense of "unwashed masses" or "plebs".

I wish people would stop being so edgy around here.

Have a guy like that in my guild who constantly spews "ultimate truths" how 5 raids per week should be norm, 5 hours per day play required to accomplish anything, and who doesn't like it should stop playing wow and gtfo cuz it's not a game for them. If Blizzard listened to such people they'd go f2p in half a year because indeed all those who are still subbed would gtfo except a handful of complete nolifers.

The hardcore paradise where you have to play every day, every week, every month continuously or you fall behind or you can't complete all the necessary gates to stay afloat is a nightmare for attracting new players and those who once quit and maybe considered comeback (but they won't, as playing from behind and jumping through hoops seems too steep of a price), therefore such a game will have tremendous problem bleeding out players and no way to replenish the playerbase.

Not even mentioning that selling accounts will be rampant because getting a playable get-go character (instead of one with days, weeks or months of backlog to wade through) will be a highly desired commodity. Back in vanilla and tbc you could get good dollah for selling a well geared character, the black market of reselling accounts was sprawling.

[Dormie]

Wildstar.
Seriously.

What about it? They're two totally separate games.

[Daffan]

You can, in fact, argue with that. Many people have and will again.

Giving everyone catchup gear that skips entire swathes of content and therefore reduces the amount of relevant content for them to do is not contestable, but a fact.

[papajohn4]

If we ever manage to define the word "casual" and not just throw it to anyone who is not hardcore, we can then talk about casualization. I for one, i am not hardcore but i prefer old wow 100%.

And in my opinion, over the years blizzard just takes out all the meaningful content from casuals (leveling, dungeons, professions, reputations that matter) and just cater more and more to hardcores (big focus on raiding).

[Tomana]

Let me know when you can prove it has anything to do with an mmo being hardcore.

By the "logic" of the guy I replied to, the simpler WoW gets, the more people quit. So, still by that "logic" those quitting people are attracted to difficulty (among other things perhaps). Question is: where are they and why aren't there at least one hardcore game attracting all those people?

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Wildstar Called. It would like to discuss sub numbers with you.

Teeheehee.

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What about it? They're two totally separate games.

So people can't switch games?

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Giving everyone catchup gear that skips entire swathes of content and therefore reduces the amount of relevant content for them to do is not contestable, but a fact.

You would have to justify that previous tiers ARE relevant content first.

[Daffan]

You would have to justify that previous tiers ARE relevant content first.

Why?

They are in the current expansion.

It's still a proper raid.

It might even be a better quality raid then the last (Ulduar > TOC, Karazhan and Firelands > DS were all excellent raids and weren't the LAST tier)

More bosses/content. HM+BRF > HFC

It means if you cant get 700 gear instantly, more people do professions, mythic dungeons and buy BoE's.

IF you've never done it before, it's basically new content in almost all sense of the word.

Pretty easy d00d.


If you're a hardcore player and beat them (the old raids) in 2 weeks. Changing catchup mechanics doesn't effect you in the slightest (If it does, just beg for ALT only catchup mechanics)

[Airwaves]

No. The biggest problem for wow is going years at a time without a single drop of content.

[Tomana]

They are in the current expansion.

So, relevant content is only the content of the current expansion? But if there is content providing better loot for similar skill levels, how is it relevant?
(btw I'm not trolling you, it's just that defining what is a relevant content is harder than expected).

IF you've never done it before, it's basically new content in almost all sense of the word.

Here, you mix up "new" and "relevant".

[Sansnom]

Casuals ruined the game. Everything is watered down, too easy, and gear =welfare. Can't really argue with that.

Levelling was never hard. It was more grindy but never hard. Maybe it has gotten easier but that is not really the point.

The game still have challenging content. There are easier version of raids available. If you decided to do the easiest mode of raiding and completed in 2 weeks and considered the game is completed, then really, that does not sound like you were looking for harder content.

Harder raids are available for you if you are really interested in testing yourselves against harder bosses. Previously people had to clear normal to unlock heroic. Now you do not have to. So there are even less reason to step into the easiest raid available unless you find the harder raids too difficult.

So, the choice is really down to the player to pick the right difficulty for them.

[SoBBeN1]

Levelling was never hard. It was more grindy but never hard. Maybe it has gotten easier but that is not really the point.

The game still have challenging content. There are easier version of raids available. If you decided to do the easiest mode of raiding and completed in 2 weeks and considered the game is completed, then really, that does not sound like you were looking for harder content.

Harder raids are available for you if you are really interested in testing yourselves against harder bosses. Previously people had to clear normal to unlock heroic. Now you do not have to. So there are even less reason to step into the easiest raid available unless you find the harder raids too difficult.

So, the choice is really down to the player to pick the right difficulty for them.

This isn't true, leveling was harder way harder then it is now, I used to die a lot while leveling back in the day. pulling mobs by mistake, respawning mobs when u were in a bad spot, running out of mana. Now was it hard? well it wasn't a raid or a dungeon and not hard like getting gladiator, but it was hard enough were u needed to somewhat pay attention or u could die quick.

I also think a big thing is the easier raid take away from feeling good about downing the harder bosses for the first time.

[XangXu]

The only players left are hardcore fans who appreciate complexity. Why would they to convince other people to sub to a 15 dollar a month game from 11 years ago?

[Rotted]

False,

Its the general shit attitude of every player, and we're all guilty of it at some point in our wow history.

For example,

Most elitests bash on casual saying they are ruining the content. This causes aggression and negativity between "casuals" and "elitests" which just escalates, across regions and servers especially when its a hot topic on these forums or other busy forums such as the official ones. Don't get me wrong casual bashing elitests for their shitty attitude can be just as detrimental.

You could even argue just putting a label on two groups of people is negative towards the game.

[Deleted]

False,

Its the general shit attitude of every player, and we're all guilty of it at some point in our wow history.

For example,

Most elitests bash on casual saying they are ruining the content. This causes aggression and negativity between "casuals" and "elitests" which just escalates, across regions and servers especially when its a hot topic on these forums or other busy forums such as the official ones. Don't get me wrong casual bashing elitests for their shitty attitude can be just as detrimental.

You could even argue just putting a label on two groups of people is negative towards the game.

You need to define an elitist and a casual and then give some form of proof that you claim is in any way true because ive been called elitist for calling out shit players but ive never said that casuals are ruining the game. Casuals only voice their concerns and then blizz goes and does some stupid shit like legendaries or Lfr out of raids that are still current.

[Rotted]

You need to define an elitist and a casual and then give some form of proof that you claim is in any way true because ive been called elitist for calling out shit players but ive never said that casuals are ruining the game. Casuals only voice their concerns and then blizz goes and does some stupid shit like legendaries or Lfr out of raids that are still current.

Standard base line definitions then

Elitist - someone that raids top end mythic or in previous expansions heroic, properly week in week out. That 0.01% of an upgrade could mean the success of downing a boss or wiping on it.

Casual - Someone like myself who doesn't raid currently or does normal or just views the content in LFR. Laid back, not fussed

You can see any evidence of this from hundred of topics on this website, and a lot of them purely being focused on elitsm or casulism if that's how you want to brand it. You can also see it regularly in trade and if you can't I suggest you go make a comment in /2 on a busy night about the subject and you'll see for yourself.

And I'm sorry, but you just proved my above point about every player having a shit attitude at some point. You called someone else shit, that's negativity? Did you offer to help them? or did you just slam them because they aren't up to your standards / a general standard. I'm not saying you necessarily are an elitist or that is what defines an elitist alone, but being really good at this game and insulting those who aren't generally go hand in hand.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying your a shitty person or have a constant shit attitude. Hell it might of been just that one time for all I know and like I said we've all had them, we all get frustrated, we all lash out in some form or another. But its it generally gets labelled into this divide of "two" types of players and it helps to contribute to the divide making it wider and fueling the hate so to speak.

[Tomana]

This isn't true, leveling was harder way harder then it is now, I used to die a lot while leveling back in the day.

It heavily depended on your spec. On my hunter (1st character I got to 60) I died very rarely. It's not the leveling that was easy or hard, it's some specs that were broken to the point of uselessness.

I also think a big thing is the easier raid take away from feeling good about downing the harder bosses for the first time.

Download any vid of a guild downing Mythic Archimonde for the first time. You can then tell from from the screams on TS how "unhappy" they are about that.

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Most elitests bash on casual saying they are ruining the content. This causes aggression and negativity between "casuals" and "elitests" which just escalates, across regions and servers especially when its a hot topic on these forums or other busy forums such as the official ones. Don't get me wrong casual bashing elitests for their shitty attitude can be just as detrimental.

It's even worse than that. It's like all WoW players somehow magically expect new players to learn everything by themselves and magically get up to speed with people playing their class for 10 years. Hence, a new player negativity that has a really heavy impact on the said new players.