1. #13001
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooba View Post
    You seem particularly upset about this, to the exclusion of ignoring my points from the books in a discussion that strayed into claiming she was immune in the books as well. You can choose to believe that. It really doesn't matter that much to me either way. I'll look nonetheless. /shrug
    The discussion about her immunity to fire went all over the place. Though I'd attribute that more to the person who felt that deviating from the book was a personal affront to all they held dear than anything else. You seem to have much less of an issue with the books and show being different entities.

  2. #13002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brubear View Post
    The discussion about her immunity to fire went all over the place. Though I'd attribute that more to the person who felt that deviating from the book was a personal affront to all they held dear than anything else. You seem to have much less of an issue with the books and show being different entities.
    I have no issues with deviation so long as it doesn't make for a bad story. The show has unfortunately done that. eg. My complaints re: Aegon/Arianne/Quentyn. However it hasn't always done that. Hence my Arya/Tywin example. That encounter alone made me quite happy.

    Also, as I have stated before in this forum. There's a wonderful example of movies being so true to the books that you can actually follow the book line-for-line while watching the movies. And it absolutely cripples the movie.

    Sometimes things just have to change. The art is in how that's done. Which is why we're here debating it at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Because I'm not referring to the books. I quoted a comment of yours, with you saying she also gets burned on the show. I asked you to provide a source to this (proof) and you have only given me quotes from the books about her getting burnt.

    I've watched the TV show 3 times and not once do I ever recall her getting burnt, let alone by her dragons. Show me she did, or don't claim she did in order to defend your stance.
    /sigh. Like I said Winter, this discussion wasn't just about the show. I gave an example of that above. You aren't the only one in this discussion. Like I also said, I'll go to the trouble of hunting. I don't have it at my fingertips at the moment. If anything I have shown myself to be thorough in my examinations throughout this thread. I can point to some massive posts to prove it. Kindly stop acting like I don't.

  3. #13003
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooba View Post
    Because the claims didn't *just* refer to the show. You folks were trying to show from Martin's comments that he was going to possibly have her immune n the books as well. Even including this recent comment from you:



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    Oh come now. That's simply being cynical. Yes they're different, but they're attempting the same story.
    Yes, I claimed that it could potentially happen in the books because we've already established that it happened to her at least once in the story, and the author didn't rule it out as possibly reoccurring again when directly asked about it. It would fit the character as she has been written, and it would fit the lore and established rules of the story as well. So it's really not out of place to conjecture that it may happen to her again. He said when her dragons were born it was a magical event, but that doesn't really specify if her surviving was because of magic from the dragons, or she had some magic within her self she invoked because of the situation.

    One could argue that the events with the Khals could be a pivotal moment for her as a character, perhaps she has some magic in her (blood of the Andaals, which the books have established as having some magic) that she is able to subconsciously use during moments of extreme need? Again, it would fit with her character, it would fit with the lore, and it would fit with the story, both already written and where it seems to be heading in the books. Especially since is statement of "probably not" was in freaking 1999. So who the hell knows how drastically his plans for Dany has changed in the almost 20 years since he made that statement (here's the interview that the quote is from http://www.astralgia.com/sfzine/chat...ts/031899.html)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saafe View Post
    Osha

    That Dany scene was bloody EPIC though.
    Seriously. Dick move to bring her back after how many seasons only to kill her in her first major scene since her return.

  4. #13004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brubear View Post
    Yes, I claimed that it could potentially happen in the books because we've already established that it happened to her at least once in the story, and the author didn't rule it out as possibly reoccurring again when directly asked about it. It would fit the character as she has been written, and it would fit the lore and established rules of the story as well. So it's really not out of place to conjecture that it may happen to her again. He said when her dragons were born it was a magical event, but that doesn't really specify if her surviving was because of magic from the dragons, or she had some magic within her self she invoked because of the situation.

    One could argue that the events with the Khals could be a pivotal moment for her as a character, perhaps she has some magic in her (blood of the Andaals, which the books have established as having some magic) that she is able to subconsciously use during moments of extreme need? Again, it would fit with her character, it would fit with the lore, and it would fit with the story, both already written and where it seems to be heading in the books. Especially since is statement of "probably not" was in freaking 1999. So who the hell knows how drastically his plans for Dany has changed in the almost 20 years since he made that statement (here's the interview that the quote is from http://www.astralgia.com/sfzine/chat...ts/031899.html)
    The Andals refers to nearly every citizen of Westeros south of the Neck, (Excluding the Sandy Dornish). So no, the books has not established that the Andals have some sort of magical blood. If anything, they seem less steeped in mysticism than the First Men or the Rhoynish.

  5. #13005
    Sorry, that was a mental slip on my part, meant to say Valyria.

  6. #13006
    Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass that she's not immune to fire in the books. Wanna know what I think? FUCK THE BOOKS. There, I said it. This thread is about Game of Thrones, not about A Song of Ice and Fire.

    There's magic in this show, we've seen people that can multiply into many clones, people that can raise others from death, people who can mind-control animals, and telekinetically travel through time, we've seen an old man turned into a tree, with a pack of plant-children, we've seen a guy able to predict the future, and even witness his own death day before it happened, we had an assassin cult that can shapeshift their face and body into anyone's appearances and can add and remove eyesight with a magical water that can kill you if you don't abandon your identity, we had a demon assassin made purely of shadow, magical green fire grenades, we have zombies, we have giants, we have dragons, an expy of the Lich King, Stonemen, and now some people are bitching that someone is immune to fire? for fucks sakes......

    Yes, she's not immune to the fires in the books. THIS IS NOT THE BOOKS.

    This is just like that bitching about that guy in the previous episode dual-wielding swords being "unrealistic" when previously we had a mulatto unarmored dwarf beating six armored knights unconscious with a fucking wooden sword. And we had a shirtless ramsay wading into battle with only a knife, and not get a scratch on him.

    When are you going to understand that this is not a realistic show? realism flew out the window the moment those dragon eggs hatched. Almost every single complaint I've seen on this thread is "but BUT IN TEH BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!". If you love those books so much, then by all means, go and make a thread about the books, and stop watching the show that is defiling your precious source material so much. Christ...... :S

    On-Topic: I just loved today's episode. That last scene with Danerys walking out of the flames has to be the most fucking badass thing I've seen in TV history. Holy fucking shit!!!!!!!!!!!! O_O

    Ohh and for those who say she hasn't "earned" anything she has, screw you. What do you say about Tyrion? he's no great warrior. He's not some master tactician or famed general in battle. What about Littlefinger? He too got his ass handed back to him the one time he was in a duel. Yet both of them have risen from nothing, into great positions of power. You don't need to be a great warrior to accomplish great things. The pen is mightier than the sword after all.
    Last edited by Derah; 2016-05-16 at 05:10 AM.

    Por que odiar si amar es mas dulce? (*^_^*)

  7. #13007
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Or it could just be a case of the author not wanting to show their hand right away. Saying or implying that it's something that's important/will happen/will be an issue/etc later might be less desirable to an author than just being coy/vague about it.
    Another good point. Either way, holding that one statement from almost twenty years ago as a reason why she couldn't become immune to a fire again in the books seems rather silly to me.

  8. #13008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Or it could just be a case of the author not wanting to show their hand right away. Saying or implying that it's something that's important/will happen/will be an issue/etc later might be less desirable to an author than just being coy/vague about it.
    It seems to me that he's being far less "vague" than folks want him to be. They're glomming on to any perceived "vagueness" that they can. He calls out specific examples of lack-of-immunity. (From whence her immunity should come, her family line.) He calls the event "unique", and says probably not ever again. That really isn't vague at all.

  9. #13009
    Awesome episode, only slightly less epic than the usual posters crying about the usual things here.

    It isn´t just this show, it is like a nerd-rage thing any time any book gets made into a movie. You take things written as fiction, in a fantasy setting, and then argue against the writer of the actual fiction....

    That aside, this season is drastically better than last season. I am not sure why, probably just the acting, but the Dorn stuff and even other areas there just wasn´t good dialog. I think the show is better when you have ´couples´ who play off each other. Tyrion and Bron, Ramsey and Reek, Arya and the Hound, Jamie and Brienne. The writing is better and the dialog stronger when you have relationships that play out over time. None of the relationships last season ever measured up to the earlier seasons.

  10. #13010
    Quote Originally Posted by Derah View Post
    Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass that she's not immune to fire in the books. Wanna know what I think? FUCK THE BOOKS. There, I said it. This thread is about Game of Thrones, not about A Song of Ice and Fire.

    ....
    To be fair, the thread specifically mentions that it's for the show and the books.

  11. #13011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derah View Post
    Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass that she's not immune to fire in the books. Wanna know what I think? FUCK THE BOOKS. There, I said it. This thread is about Game of Thrones, not about A Song of Ice and Fire.

    There's magic in this show, we've seen people that can multiply into many clones, people that can raise others from death, people who can mind-control animals, and telekinetically travel through time, and now some people are bitching that someone is immune to fire? for fucks sakes......

    This is just like that bitching about that guy in the previous episode dual-wielding swords being "unrealistic" when previously we had a mulatto unarmored dwarf beating six armored knights unconscious with a fucking wooden sword. And we had a shirtless ramsay wading into battle with only a knife, and not get a scratch on him.

    When are you going to understand that this is not a realistic show? realism flew out the window the moment those dragon eggs hatched. Almost every single complaint I've seen on this thread is "but BUT IN TEH BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!". If you love those books so much, then by all means, go and make a thread about the books, and stop watching the show that is defiling your precious source material so much. Christ...... :S

    On-Topic: I just loved today's episode. That last scene with Danerys walking out of the flames has to be the most fucking badass thing I've seen in TV history. Holy fucking shit!!!!!!!!!!!! O_O

    Ohh and for those who say she hasn't "earned" anything she has, screw you. What do you say about Tyrion? he's no great warrior. He's not some master tactician or famed general in battle. What about Littlefinger? He too got his ass handed back to him the one time he was in a duel. Yet both of them have risen from nothing, into great positions of power. You don't need to be a great warrior to accomplish great things. The pen is mightier than the sword after all.
    Incorrect. This is the show+book thread. There is a different thread for show-only. So take that attitude somewhere else. Pointlessly pugilistic.

    As for Dany not earning anything, I'll have to go back further through the last few pages to find those posts. I'm not sure exactly what "they" would be expecting Dany to earn though. o.O

    Also, the idea that "realism flew out the window" is a poor argument indeed. This isn't Calvinball. Internal consistency is a hallmark of good writing, including fantasy. And it's something Martin himself is fanatical about.

    And more whining about book readers using the book thread. If you're going to be a disrespectful asshole, at least get it in the right thread, eh?
    Last edited by Sooba; 2016-05-16 at 05:10 AM.

  12. #13012
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Awesome episode, only slightly less epic than the usual posters crying about the usual things here.

    It isn´t just this show, it is like a nerd-rage thing any time any book gets made into a movie. You take things written as fiction, in a fantasy setting, and then argue against the writer of the actual fiction....

    That aside, this season is drastically better than last season. I am not sure why, probably just the acting, but the Dorn stuff and even other areas there just wasn´t good dialog. I think the show is better when you have ´couples´ who play off each other. Tyrion and Bron, Ramsey and Reek, Arya and the Hound, Jamie and Brienne. The writing is better and the dialog stronger when you have relationships that play out over time. None of the relationships last season ever measured up to the earlier seasons.
    Originally, it really bugged me when the show really started deviating from the books. I got over it, but the main reason it used to bug me so much is because of how closely they followed the books in the first season. Just about all of the changes they made in the first season didn't feel like they were just changing things, but doing them for very good reasons (didn't play well in TV format or without the inner dialogue you get in a book, made more sense for the story, etc) though there were still a few minor quibbles I had. But then they changed even more things in the second season for seemingly arbitrary reasons. Then the third season there was even more things changed, and on and on. It took me awhile to get over that, because they seemed to switch from trying to do as faithful of an adaptation as they could to "while it's the same spirit, we're doing our own version of it".

  13. #13013
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    "So this happened in the show?"

    "...no, but in the books..."

    "But the books aren't the show, did this happen in the show?"

    "...no, but in the books..."

    "But the books aren't the show, did this happen in the show?"

    "...no, but in the books..."

    And on and on it goes, friends.
    Yeah I came to this thread to talk about things that happened on the show (Yes I read the books) but I could give a flying fuck what happened in the books when it comes to the TV show. I really do wish the TV show had a separate thread because this has been just non-stop back and forth for the past 20 pages or so over 2 major things that happened in the last 2 episodes.

  14. #13014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Awesome episode, only slightly less epic than the usual posters crying about the usual things here.

    It isn´t just this show, it is like a nerd-rage thing any time any book gets made into a movie. You take things written as fiction, in a fantasy setting, and then argue against the writer of the actual fiction....

    That aside, this season is drastically better than last season. I am not sure why, probably just the acting, but the Dorn stuff and even other areas there just wasn´t good dialog. I think the show is better when you have ´couples´ who play off each other. Tyrion and Bron, Ramsey and Reek, Arya and the Hound, Jamie and Brienne. The writing is better and the dialog stronger when you have relationships that play out over time. None of the relationships last season ever measured up to the earlier seasons.
    I would largely agree with this assessment. D&D have shown themselves far stronger with the smaller set pieces than the larger plots. They get the characterization right when they don't cut too much, and I have appreciated that.

    I think the disappointment you have seen in the thread has come largely from last season. I'm hoping they find their feet again so folks will relax a bit.

  15. #13015
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooba View Post
    Oh come now. That's simply being cynical. Yes they're different, but they're attempting the same story.
    The TV show is using the books as source material not a 100% attempt at recreating the story to exactitude. I mean it could true they tried really hard to follow the books as written for the first couple seasons but now that they really started to deviate who KNOWS what is really different. Until we get the next book to see if things even remotely play out the same with the immunity to fire and so on, we have nothing to really go on.

  16. #13016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Yeah I came to this thread to talk about things that happened on the show (Yes I read the books) but I could give a flying fuck what happened in the books when it comes to the TV show. I really do wish the TV show had a separate thread because this has been just non-stop back and forth for the past 20 pages or so over 2 major things that happened in the last 2 episodes.
    I don't want to get upset because folks seem to want to misrepresent it. But once again, there is such a thread. Feel free to use it.

  17. #13017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brubear View Post
    That's true, but I still don't really know why he'd be worried about Jon Snow leading an army of Wildlings. He knows that he's the Lord Captain of the Night's Watch and he's the bastard son of Ned Stark and brother of Rob Stark, someone who the Umbers were very close allies of. He hasn't aided or sided with the Boltons in any way until now.

    I understand why he'd be afraid of an army of Wildlings because, as he says in the show, his family has been dealing with that for ages. What I don't understand is why he'd be afraid of an army of them led by Jon Snow, who'd have beef with the Boltons and maybe the Karstarks if word had gotten out that they'd sided with the Boltons.

    I really do hope that theory plays out to be true, because the Umbers were my favorite of the Northern houses, and killiling Greatjon and turning them into bad guys would just seem needlessly sad.
    Well, if we're going with the theory that Smalljon is totally legit when he shows up at Winterfell to side with the Boltons, he may not know that Jon is leading them. The way he phrases his explanation, it sounds like Jon just let them loose on the landscape and stayed in Castle Black. That is a legitimate, I suppose, explanation for why he'd be pissed/worried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sooba View Post
    "Her skin was pink and tender, and a pale milky fluid was leaking from her cracked palms, but her burns were healing."

    -from the books. The show may run with this in a different direction. But that one quote alone puts to bed what you're trying to argue. Dany is not immune to fire.

    And in her encounter with Drogon in the fighting pits she herself acknowledges this as it informs her strategy of how to corral him. She chooses not to run because "If I run from him, he will burn me and devour me".

    Please for the love of god(dess?), stop trying to argue that she's immune. If the show chooses to do that, sure. But she is not. Simply put.
    No one is arguing that she's immune in the books. She's very clearly immune in the show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sooba View Post
    Because the claims didn't *just* refer to the show. You folks were trying to show from Martin's comments that he was going to possibly have her immune n the books as well. Even including this recent comment from you:
    No, we're not. I've said multiple times that the books and the show are two separate entities, as the showrunners basically told us they would be around Season 3. The show has diverged from the books, and what is true in the books may or may not be true in the show.
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  18. #13018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    The TV show is using the books as source material not a 100% attempt at recreating the story to exactitude. I mean it could true they tried really hard to follow the books as written for the first couple seasons but now that they really started to deviate who KNOWS what is really different. Until we get the next book to see if things even remotely play out the same with the immunity to fire and so on, we have nothing to really go on.
    And, again to repeat, the show writers have been very clear that the book and the show are going to end in the same place. It's an adaptation, yes. But the attempt is to tell the same story.

    Or to put it differently, I'm sure there will be plenty of differences, but they are playing in the same Game.

  19. #13019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brubear View Post
    Seriously. Dick move to bring her back after how many seasons only to kill her in her first major scene since her return.
    I know this is terrible, but I was actually thankful she got a relatively clean death. It could have been so much worse.
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  20. #13020
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    Well, if we're going with the theory that Smalljon is totally legit when he shows up at Winterfell to side with the Boltons, he may not know that Jon is leading them. The way he phrases his explanation, it sounds like Jon just let them loose on the landscape and stayed in Castle Black. That is a legitimate, I suppose, explanation for why he'd be pissed/worried.

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    No one is arguing that she's immune in the books. She's very clearly immune in the show.

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    No, we're not. I've said multiple times that the books and the show are two separate entities, as the showrunners basically told us they would be around Season 3. The show has diverged from the books, and what is true in the books may or may not be true in the show.
    Once again, as you've made the same mistake as Winter. You are not the only one in this conversation. Yes, there were people trying to claim such. And again, I gave an example of when someone did.

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