Legion - Assassination Discussion

[Jaronicity]

Then please also ask them why we still have vendetta, or if they really wanna keep it, to have it removed from gcd ^^.

That's not a theorycrafting related question .

[Todesbote]

That's not a theorycrafting related question .

Then theorycraft about how it is better to use Kingsbane before Vendetta or vice versa. Or theorycraft about how haste is devalued by the fact that using Vendetta refills our Energy via "Urge to Kill" while putting us in GCD thus forcing us to waste energy.

I didn't really expect them to get it right this time but here is something that worries me from a Mythic raiding perspective. The longer Alpha goes on without Blizzard addressing the biggest issues of this class (imbalanced nature of Blade Flurry and Subtlety's lack of AoE forcing it into a ST niche) makes me think we are back to 6.0-6.2: Subtlety for ST (assuming it will do more damage than Assa) and Outlaw for everything else. (group content, AoE heavy raid bosses).

Will there be a place for Assassination in Mythic raiding? Will it be like WoD where Assassination is good in a few niche multi-target sustained cleave fights while Subtlety and Combat are mandatory for everything else? Will the niches be smaller this time around or will it still be better to switch to Outlaw/Subtlety even with an underleveled Artifact to adapt to the needs of the raid group? How can they justify keeping extreme niches for some specs while at the same time making it much harder to adapt (re-spec cost, no more dual spec, Artifact problem)? Those are the questions that make me think about rerolling another class - at least for the first raid tier of Legion.

[Wow]

Will there be a place for Assassination in Mythic raiding? Will it be like WoD where Assassination is good in a few niche multi-target sustained cleave fights while Subtlety and Combat are mandatory for everything else?

I think it's possible the idea is Agonizing Poison for big single target and blood sweat on aoe not sure where that leaves Alacrity but I think its one of those talents that just kind of there so they don't have to come up with anything else for all 3 specs. Remember assassin single target was also buffed when sub's was and many bug fixes are making Agonizing Poison even stronger. But who knows if it will come out like that in the end. Either way is a bad design because either sub or assassin is going to end up being a dead spec in pve.

Also I really think the reason assassination has got all the energy nerfs it has is the t19 2piece which is a really really awful way to balance things but they've done it before. As t19 seems to be fixing a lot of issues with the specs so...

[Packing an i5]

I just hate vendetta and hate the fact that mutilate is so weak.

[davesignal]

Didn't Mutilate just get buffed?

[Wow]

Didn't Mutilate just get buffed?

Since they didn't baseline the perk overall even with the buff and the 15% from the artifact it only does 8% more dmg then live. Not really much of a increase overall.

[Symphonic]

Having a hard time deciding which spec is going to be the most useful by the end. This whole artifact thing making it hard to dual spec is a little difficult to fathom. I think in a respec, it should just let you use any artifact points gained and place them in the current artifact for your spec.

[Ealyssa]

I think in a respec, it should just let you use any artifact points gained and place them in the current artifact for your spec.

The purpose is specifically for you to commit in one spec...

Enough of "play X spec on this fight Y spec on this one". Instead play the spec you love, and cry to blizzard when not competitive.

[AceofHarts]

The purpose is specifically for you to commit in one spec...

Enough of "play X spec on this fight Y spec on this one". Instead play the spec you love, and cry to blizzard when not competitive.

in that case, enough of "spec 1 is good for sustained single dps with moments of burst, but has no real aoe, spec 2 is good for aoe/cleave but has subpar single target, and spec 3 is good burst dps and weak aoe".

[Ealyssa]

in that case, enough of "spec 1 is good for sustained single dps with moments of burst, but has no real aoe, spec 2 is good for aoe/cleave but has subpar single target, and spec 3 is good burst dps and weak aoe".

Still not the question. You'll have to commit with the artefact system.

[AceofHarts]

Still not the question. You'll have to commit with the artefact system.

using artifacts to offset weaknesses like that is exactly a good example of why i quit playing wow. they continually ignore rogue issues and try to bandaid fix it time and time again.

[elfporn]

Still not the question. You'll have to commit with the artefact system.

The artifact system is an end-game progression system, just like the mythic dungeons are.

BUT, with artifacts you will be able to triple your artifact power gains on that second/third spec, and while it's not free, it's a significant difference, and helps alleviate the commitment required from the first artifact.

[Ealyssa]

The artifact system is an end-game progression system, just like the mythic dungeons are.

BUT, with artifacts you will be able to triple your artifact power gains on that second/third spec, and while it's not free, it's a significant difference, and helps alleviate the commitment required from the first artifact.

Artifacts system is a long term character progression, nothing like mythic dungeon (which is a long term scaling content). Even if the off spec weapon power can be gathered faster, you still are gimping your main weapon doing so. You can't level each of them at the same time. You either distribute some power on each, and will be behind others with only one weapon, or you commit in one and the offspecs weapons will be behind.

And that's only for artifact power. Ilvl increase will come with relics drop. GL having relics for all your spec. Except if your guild is ready to gear all your specs before other raiders, it won't be as simple as being the only class needing the daggers drops.

[elfporn]

Artifacts system is a long term character progression, nothing like mythic dungeon (which is a long term scaling content). Even if the off spec weapon power can be gathered faster, you still are gimping your main weapon doing so. You can't level each of them at the same time. You either distribute some power on each, and will be behind others with only one weapon, or you commit in one and the offspecs weapons will be behind.

And that's only for artifact power. Ilvl increase will come with relics drop. GL having relics for all your spec. Except if your guild is ready to gear all your specs before other raiders, it won't be as simple as being the only class needing the daggers drops.

i don't foresee leveling my artifacts being an issue, or getting relics for them. Complete one, move to the next, complete it 3x as fast, and then the next. Almost anything you do in the game will help level the artifact, so the commitment is entirely on the player, you can take your time, or grind it out.

[Geckoo]

i don't foresee leveling my artifacts being an issue, or getting relics for them. Complete one, move to the next, complete it 3x as fast, and then the next. Almost anything you do in the game will help level the artifact, so the commitment is entirely on the player, you can take your time, or grind it out.

They don't expect players to have fully leveled artifact when raids open. Just check the amount of artifact power required and even with the boosts it seems like a really insane and unrealistic grind.

Actually, i wouldn't be surprised if they kind of expect players to get just to certain point on each artifact at least during 7.0. Again, if you check the numbers, getting the artifact to level 20 seems reasonable (that's usually two major traits), but past that point the amount required makes me think that they intentionally used a formula that suggests players to invest their artifact power on other weapons until 7.X comes with new content and new ways to get over that big leap.

[elfporn]

They don't expect players to have fully leveled artifact when raids open. Just check the amount of artifact power required and even with the boosts it seems like a really insane and unrealistic grind.

Actually, i wouldn't be surprised if they kind of expect players to get just to certain point on each artifact at least during 7.0. Again, if you check the numbers, getting the artifact to level 20 seems reasonable (that's usually two major traits), but past that point the amount required makes me think that they intentionally used a formula that suggests players to invest their artifact power on other weapons until 7.X comes with new content and new ways to get over that big leap.

You're right about the it being a bitch to progress the further in you get, and it is indeed player progression/gating. The good thing though is that much of the progresison is still in the players hands, despite the grind

[Deleted]

I finally hit 110 yesterday on the Beta after all the fun with phasing and am now halfway through Suramar.
Assassin plays really nicely in open world content, the biggest surprise for me was that i was actually able to pull and AoE more mobs as assa than i had been on my Alpha Outlaw. The combination of Leeching Poison and Blood Sweat yields ridiculous healing returns via leech and FoK adds another CP for every crit so you end up spamming FoK->Finisher like a sub rogue. A huge positive surprise is the current layout of the artifact talent tree (i sincerely hope they don't change anything about it) as it allows us to get to all relevant damage traits without being forced into taking any utility/def points.
Playing some dungeons, it seems like our sustained AoE might actually be really strong, FoK allows for quick application of multiple Ruptures which hit like a fucking monster truck and turn our energy regen into Haste+Adrenaline Rush levels of overflowing. I still need 3 more points (~5-6k power) to finish the trait that lets Envenom spawn poison pools but i imagine this will further push our AoE dot potential. Burst AoE is non-existent, though.
My biggest gripe with the spec is that it´s still not incredibly challenging to play but it's engaging enough to not piss me off like live Assa does. It's also rather annoying that ST-wise we get pushed into picking Agonizing Poison which doesn't synergize with most of the artifact traits and actually dumbs down the spec by making the envenom debuff irrelevant.

[davesignal]

I feel like Agonizing Poison should just be a suped-up version Deadly Poison with a DOT that stacks up for significantly more damage.

[Barlylol]

It's also rather annoying that ST-wise we get pushed into picking Agonizing Poison which doesn't synergize with most of the artifact traits and actually dumbs down the spec by making the envenom debuff irrelevant.

Well, actually, it doesn't synergize with Poisoned Knifes (which doesn't matter, because we are single target anyway), and Surge of Toxins, which is not a huge deal, because your envenom and Kingsbane are your main poison damage. I don't use deadly poison at all for assassination on beta, because my numbers are lower with it.

Does anyone that uses Deadly Poison on beta find they do more with it vs Agonizing Poison?

[Riistov]

some guy out to settle scores.

^This is MY class fantasy