[TV] Star Wars Rebels

[A dot Ham]

...and death certainly happens. Grand Inquisator dropping to his death in fire. Stormtroopers getting shot. Maul tossing his saber at everyone's favorite sister. Countless others as well. Gravity falls doesn't show decapitation, people burning alive in a realistic manner, or sexual content beyond a kiss or a "I like you". It might hint at those things you mention but it rings to me as less adult than Saved by the Bell in the 90s.

All Rebels doesn't show is the bodies being split in two by lightsabers. Or the body parts bleeding out after an explosion. But anyone with any sense knows that's what happened. To show or not show it accomplishes the same goal.

I think we have a misunderstanding here, because for the most part you don't get that from the movies either... dooku, Ponda, Baba, Anakin... but not much else.

I guess maybe I was/am used to what was represented in the Clone Wars where you still had a brightly glowing cut in the said opponents armor.

Sometimes death occurring off screen may be appropriate IF the death is particularly brutal... what we assumed happened to 7th Sister. But when MOST deaths are occurring off screen or you are to assume the person died. It makes the death a lot less concrete. Like I said earlier... Darth Maul was brought back in a way I wouldn't have thought possible given how he died and where he was struck, but they did. So if someone simply disappears into the abyss, or disappears into fire... there has to be a small part of us that is willing to accept that they MIGHT be still alive.

Since Disney took over Star Wars, it has been written like a soap opera. Less concern with delivering a complete story, and more concern with keeping it going for as long as possible, and if loose ends get tied up great, if not, oh well. I don't care for that personally. With Disney's habit for cancelling projects on a whim if they under perform, I think it is even more crucial to NOT have as many loose ends as they do, you should be prepared to wrap up the story relatively quickly and tie off those loose ends as if Disney could bring about bad news tomorrow.

Gravity falls has mature content but a completely different type of mature content. I was not comparing them as apples to apples... I was making the observation that if you are willing to have one show at given time slot with clearly adult themes, then you can't make the argument that Star Wars: Rebels is a "kids" show and should be treated as such, when it follows a show containing equally (more imo) adult themes.

Also I think this last season's finale was awesome (yet uncharacteristic) of the series or the season as a whole. That being said it still had a lot of these noncommittal elements that I am describing.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I think we have a misunderstanding here, because for the most part you don't get that from the movies either... dooku, Ponda, Baba, Anakin... but not much else.

I guess maybe I was/am used to what was represented in the Clone Wars where you still had a brightly glowing cut in the said opponents armor.

Sometimes death occurring off screen may be appropriate IF the death is particularly brutal... what we assumed happened to 7th Sister. But when MOST deaths are occurring off screen or you are to assume the person died. It makes the death a lot less concrete. Like I said earlier... Darth Maul was brought back in a way I wouldn't have thought possible given how he died and where he was struck, but they did. So if someone simply disappears into the abyss, or disappears into fire... there has to be a small part of us that is willing to accept that they MIGHT be still alive.

Since Disney took over Star Wars, it has been written like a soap opera. Less concern with delivering a complete story, and more concern with keeping it going for as long as possible, and if loose ends get tied up great, if not, oh well. I don't care for that personally. With Disney's habit for cancelling projects on a whim if they under perform, I think it is even more crucial to NOT have as many loose ends as they do, you should be prepared to wrap up the story relatively quickly and tie off those loose ends as if Disney could bring about bad news tomorrow.

Gravity falls has mature content but a completely different type of mature content. I was not comparing them as apples to apples... I was making the observation that if you are willing to have one show at given time slot with clearly adult themes, then you can't make the argument that Star Wars: Rebels is a "kids" show and should be treated as such, when it follows a show containing equally (more imo) adult themes.

Also I think this last season's finale was awesome (yet uncharacteristic) of the series or the season as a whole. That being said it still had a lot of these noncommittal elements that I am describing.

Well when you put stuff on TV instead of movies the soap opera effect is going to happen. It's a business specifically designed to pretty much string things along with filler episodes, cliff hangers, and often times a little lack of continuity. I am not claiming Rebels is perfect by many means. But it falls within the margin of acceptance. For one I can tell season 2 certainly tried to cash in commercially bigger than season 1. With the split season on iTunes without telling anyone (ended up refunding to a lot of people). Extra episodes but with most of them being filler fluff. Ridiculous mid season breaks, random breaks in the season outside of that, and an insane hype train.

But end of the day it really is just a kid show. Older kids? Sure, I am not talking 4 year olds. But I would still say preteen target audience of like 8 to 12. Clone Wars was clearly targeted more at teens directly with all the relationship stuff and general violence.

[A dot Ham]

If you were paying attention during the first season every single filler episode became relevant by the end of the first season like the tie fighter and tarkin town etc.

I guess I'll have to go back and watch it again and tie in each "filler" episode and see how it has any relevance to the meta story. I think your denial that these exist is a bit naive.

Um thats the star wars feeling you are seeing. That is the way Star Wars feels, its a campy fun space opera.

No because they aren't so polar in any other show/film/book that we have received. Kanan coming from the atrocities of Clone Wars, should be a much rounder character... yet he is still very dogmatic. Now granted what we see in the films is of the council and high ranking Jedi (a relatively narrow view) and there are many other Jedi doing their own thing, so it is possible he is able to retain that dogmatic thinking, but the loss of his master I feel would at least cause him to doubt it. I disagree with your classification of the series.

Ezra's parents were literally imprisoned and then killed for speaking out against the Imperial government. That's not dark? They are brainwashing children to fight in their armies. That's the whole point of Ezra though, he hasn't become evil enough to kill even though he is an orphan and there is brutality all around him. That's not who he is.

But that's kind of my point. Yes he's a kid, yet he is right there in the mix of it, and still manages to avoid personally seeing some of the brutality, or even participating in it, despite the fact that he is THERE. For him not be MORE effected at this point is starting to become less and less believable.

Not Confirmed.

What exactly isn't confirmed. Remaining Jedi? The purpose of the inquisitors?

I actually think its nice to see different lightsaber designs than just the plain old single handled plain blades. It is also a good way to distinguish the inquisitors.

No I agree. I like mutliple designs for sure. I even like that it spins... a bit OP if you ask me but, its totally bad ass. Its the the fact that they can also turn that into a helicopter now and get them to and from wherever they want. That usage pulled me out of the universe.

Once again the filler has resolution usually by the end of each season.

Are we talking about Rebels or Clone Wars. Clone Wars did a decent job of tying up those final episodes despite the fact they were summarily canceled. But (and again correct me if I'm wrong) but there was the whole story arch with Cad Bane and even Boba Fett that was ultimately left unresolved.

They show Maul escaping in an inquisitor's Tie. Vader lived what did you expect him to die, but come back in episode 4? Ahsoka was not standing it is very ambiguous what happened to her that was very much done on purpose. We do not know if she lived or escaped or died and you see her body in the shadows.

Watched it again... don't know how I missed Maul in the Tie...

Of course I didn't expect Vader to die... come on.

Ahsoka appears to be very much alive and walking back into the temple. While Vader is coughing and hacking on his way out. What happened? "I'm not leaving you..." Yet that is apparently exactly what happened. There is WAY too much history between Anakin and Ahsoka to end on such an anti-climactic note. Not to mention "Snips" (glad they stopped using that nickname) has become a fan favorite.

His eyes were damaged when he got shot in the face, he put the mask on to not show the damage and to help him focus the force to fight blindly using the force.

Why? To spare kids the visual of a lighstaber burn...? Why THAT mask? Especially going back to his own vision in the Jedi Temple. Is there something more here? It feels like there is... I guess we have to wait and see, but that's kind of what I am referring to on the whole. It FEELS like there is something more, but it probably won't be mentioned or even explored.

As Maul says in the finalle you don't have to be sith to open a sith holocron, you just have to think like one. You don't have to kill to be able to think.

Fair enough.

These are the things that lead me to believe you didn't watch the show, just heard about it or haven't watched the original films and understand how star wars is.

I think you are just being snooty.

Like I said in a response to Yggdrasil. Ever since Disney took over Star Wars it is being written as a soap opera and not a complete story from start to finish. The intent is not to deliver a satisfying and complete story. It is to present interesting vague and open ended content to extend the series as long as possible. I don't care for that strategy.

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Well when you put stuff on TV instead of movies the soap opera effect is going to happen. It's a business specifically designed to pretty much string things along with filler episodes, cliff hangers, and often times a little lack of continuity. I am not claiming Rebels is perfect by many means. But it falls within the margin of acceptance. For one I can tell season 2 certainly tried to cash in commercially bigger than season 1. With the split season on iTunes without telling anyone (ended up refunding to a lot of people). Extra episodes but with most of them being filler fluff. Ridiculous mid season breaks, random breaks in the season outside of that, and an insane hype train.

But end of the day it really is just a kid show. Older kids? Sure, I am not talking 4 year olds. But I would still say preteen target audience of like 8 to 12. Clone Wars was clearly targeted more at teens directly with all the relationship stuff and general violence.

I think in general though. Kids aren't getting into Star Wars on their own. As Harrison Ford said in the extras for Force Awakens Star Wars is like a family tradition, passed down from parents to children. That being said, while a few may stumble upon Rebels, I think most are being introduced to it at the urging of their parents.

I also think this is where Rebels misses the mark, if parents are sitting down to watch this with their kids (and I am) the kids have probably been introduced to the movies as well. (mine have) So these "mature" elements are to be expected, and this "kid friendly" atmosphere (while I appreciate the attempt) is really unnecessary.

I honestly believe that if Star Wars was a brand new franchise... they would have a hard time getting it to gain traction. I don't think the initial interest is there. If that's true, you cannot ignore the older generation of fans. You may want newer generations... and that should be your goal. But from what we know about Star Wars, the newer generation will get there through the older generation.

[Gamdwelf]

That's the thing about star wars. It's for kids. It has always been geared for kids. Kids movies and kids games and kids TV shows.

[segara82]

Well i got into Star Wars as a kid back then 88/89 when i first saw them on tv. By now it is for the grown-up fans a tradition that they pass on but they still can get into it all by themselves.

I just wish they would create a more mature maybe grey story for us older fans.

[A dot Ham]

That's the thing about star wars. It's for kids. It has always been geared for kids. Kids movies and kids games and kids TV shows.

But look at the fanbase... not kids. Look at who clears out toy aisles... not kids.

You make a sequel to a series that began in 1977 and you are still trying to convince people that its target audience is kids... Missing the mark, not understanding the consumer... it all ties into what I am saying.

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Well i got into Star Wars as a kid back then 88/89 when i first saw them on tv. By now it is for the grown-up fans a tradition that they pass on but they still can get into it all by themselves.

I just wish they would create a more mature maybe grey story for us older fans.

My group of friends got hardcore into it in 4th grade, prior to the special edition re-release in Theaters in '97... I can't remember though who or what actually got me to become obsessed back then...

Personally I don't need an "adult" story, I just want a story. One that doesn't seek to cater to one group or the other... just is. Most people will contest that "cartoons are for kids" is no longer an acceptable stereotype... I'm not even sure where that fallacy began. The original audience for the first cartoon steamboat willie was filled with adults... not children.

[Gamdwelf]

And that's what it's doing. It catering for kids is in your mind. It doesn't have babbies in it it doesn't have songs. It has a meta plot which children's shows can't usually do. There is death there are adult themes.

What makes you think that they are catering to children?

[Immitis]

But look at the fanbase... not kids. Look at who clears out toy aisles... not kids.

wrong.

vast majority of merch is bought by kids. the star wars fanbase is generational, its built specifically for kids, who will then grow up and take their kids, so on and so forth till end of time.

[A dot Ham]

wrong.

vast majority of merch is bought by kids. the star wars fanbase is generational, its built specifically for kids, who will then grow up and take their kids, so on and so forth till end of time.

That isn't even remotely true. The majority of merch is bought by adults. It is a huge problem that Disney is being saddled with as the majority of product is bought up and held by collectors. It is forcing them to take a look at their previously successful merchandising strategies which include low to adequate inventories to create a sense of urgency and demand for consumers. The vast majority of kids don't even get a look at the full array of merch available as it usually picked clean by collectors before kids even get a glance.

[Immitis]

That isn't even remotely true. The majority of merch is bought by adults. It is a huge problem that Disney is being saddled with as the majority of product is bought up and held by collectors. It is forcing them to take a look at their previously successful merchandising strategies which include low to adequate inventories to create a sense of urgency and demand for consumers. The vast majority of kids don't even get a look at the full array of merch available as it usually picked clean by collectors before kids even get a glance.

lol yeah, all the kids arent able to buy star wars toys because collectors are buying it all.

you're deluded.

majority of adults dont own lightsabers and action figures. kids do. adult toy collectors is a tiny niche which is why the majority of their products aimed at them are high price items

[A dot Ham]

And that's what it's doing. It catering for kids is in your mind. It doesn't have babbies in it it doesn't have songs. It has a meta plot which children's shows can't usually do. There is death there are adult themes.

What makes you think that they are catering to children?

Its the way the deaths are being portrayed. Even Darth Vader seems like a far less capable opponent vs Ezra and managed to skirt death 2 times. Whats worse is they aren't even doing it in away that is congruent with the themes of the show. Such as teamwork. Hera and Sabine particularly are constantly talking about how they are better/stronger as a team. Yet Ezra and Kanan manage without their team. Vader shows... restraint? arrogance? where they are concerned. Rather than cold and disconnected (the Vader we know) now there are moments. Moments. Where the series hits the mark... and for the most part those moments make it worth it.

I will concede that I may be a bit overly critical. But in answer to your question: "What makes you think that they are catering to children?" I would say the off screen death/implied death is a big one. Ezra's pee shooter... I think the stun setting for Stormtroopers has been applied all of 2 times prior to Rebels... once in Clone Wars... once in episode IV. I don't think Ezra's character really has any qualms about killing "bucket heads" but the show, and the characters around him seem to go through a lot of effort to make sure he isn't the one to do it, or exposed to it. Maybe Ezra is younger than he appears, maybe its just a matter of "protecting the kid" but then I don't understand how/why he gets into the TRULY dangerous situations.

I am trying to have a discussion here not create enemies/polarize between "I like what they are doing" and "I don't like what they are doing" I think the show and the movies are attempting to establish force users/force sensitives that are not necessarily Jedi/Sith. But they aren't doing a good job of explaining what that is, and what these people can do. As I have said many times over... too many questions, not enough answers.

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lol yeah, all the kids arent able to buy star wars toys because collectors are buying it all.

you're deluded.

majority of adults dont own lightsabers and action figures. kids do. adult toy collectors is a tiny niche which is why the majority of their products aimed at them are high price items

Look for Star Wars ultimate FX lightsabers and let me know if you can find any of the unique ones for the retail price.

How about Kanan or Ahsoka in the black series figures. Retail price... anywhere?

How about fifth brother... retail price anywhere?

The Grand Inquisitor was difficult to find for a while until they re-released it.

Playskool episode VII anything...

There is a significant shortage of star wars toys in the stores and if you talk to the managers they will tell you that the reason is that adults come in on shipment day and wipe them out.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

There is a significant shortage of star wars toys in the stores and if you talk to the managers they will tell you that the reason is that adults come in on shipment day and wipe them out.

You may or may not have kids. But I do. I am going to just say this one time. I have never once in my life sent my 10 year old up the Walmart on his own to get a toy. It is usually me.. or my wife.. go figure right?

[A dot Ham]

You may or may not have kids. But I do. I am going to just say this one time. I have never once in my life sent my 10 year old up the Walmart on his own to get a toy. It is usually me.. or my wife.. go figure right?

I am with him in the toy aisle. Don't be ridiculous, and obviously I am the one paying for it.

Normal customers don't buy shit by the case, or buy 2 of everything in a given wave... store managers know who the collectors are.

[Immitis]

people who buy things by the case arent collectors, theyre scalpers

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I think Partysaurus Rex just wants things to be his way and just doesn't get that it isn't happening. Oh well. No skin off my back.

[Hellravager]

1 month to go until next season according to Wikipedia

[CR77]

1 month to go until next season according to Wikipedia

I see nothing indicating this. And if it does it will probably be a two part starter then nothing till October like season 2.

[Hellravager]

I see nothing indicating this. And if it does it will probably be a two part starter then nothing till October like season 2.

You obviously didnt look hard enough
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_...s_Season_Three

[Feredir]

You obviously didnt look hard enough
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_...s_Season_Three

There is no mention of a date anywhere, including the links. Fall, or Autumn, whichever you choose, isn't until September. So yeah, not next month.

[Hellravager]

There is no mention of a date anywhere, including the links. Fall, or Autumn, whichever you choose, isn't until September. So yeah, not next month.

I swear your blind, JULY 2016, but it could air then or not i'll give you that at least.