Casualization is the biggest problem wow: True or false

[Kazgrel]

The only players left are hardcore fans who appreciate complexity. Why would they to convince other people to sub to a 15 dollar a month game from 11 years ago?

Complexity? I guess that's why they've pruned abilities and continue to do so...to keep things complex.

Wait, no.

[Blayze]

No, it's hardcoreisation (is that a word? It is now) that's killing this game.

Catering to hardcores in pre-4.3 Cataclysm by overtuning everything and reducing non-raid content to ball-busting heroics and about ten dailies nearly killed the game.

So did stripping out everything but the raiding and sticking in murderbars to fill for outdoor stuff in WoD, as well as continuing Mists' design of having worthless dungeons.

[Rotted]

It heavily depended on your spec. On my hunter (1st character I got to 60) I died very rarely. It's not the leveling that was easy or hard, it's some specs that were broken to the point of uselessness.


Download any vid of a guild downing Mythic Archimonde for the first time. You can then tell from from the screams on TS how "unhappy" they are about that.

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It's even worse than that. It's like all WoW players somehow magically expect new players to learn everything by themselves and magically get up to speed with people playing their class for 10 years. Hence, a new player negativity that has a really heavy impact on the said new players.

Oh don't get me wrong I could write an essay on the subject, on both in fact. I'm just compressing it other wise people don't tend to read

[Tomana]

Oh don't get me wrong I could write an essay on the subject, on both in fact. I'm just compressing it other wise people don't tend to read

Hehe, I understand.

[Marrilaife]

Oh don't get me wrong I could write an essay on the subject, on both in fact. I'm just compressing it other wise people don't tend to read

Yep, I think half the time my posts are invisible just because they're 2-3 paragraphs. Maybe for the better, but hard to make compelling discussion in one liners. I'm not from twitter generation sadly.

Personally I know I'm playing wow more than average player, I wouldn't ask Blizzard to completely alienate playerbase who plays less than me because it's probably 90% of them. Not smart marketing move.

If you have some "cyclical" playerbase that only plays few weeks here and there, they still provide you some revenue. While pushing them away from the game completely because they aren't "putting enough effort to deserve anything" or "they shouldn't play an mmo in the first place" is just a financial shoot in the foot for a company.

[Perkunas]

Casuals ruined the game. Everything is watered down, too easy, and gear =welfare. Can't really argue with that.

This is nonsense. Casuals did not ask for gear to be handed out and for the shift to instant gratification in general. Entitled and shitty players did. Casual does not equal bad. It simply means they can't play as often. I am a casual and I hate LFR/LFG, removal of attunements, lack of tiered progression, overly homogenized classes, and extreme focus on capped content. When getting an upgrade in a 5-man dungeon was cause for joy and not something we simply vendored or sharded.

Shitty players and catering to morons who refuse to learn or get better at the game should draw your ire. Casuals are fine.

[primalmatter]

This is nonsense. Casuals did not ask for gear to be handed out and for the shift to instant gratification in general. Entitled and shitty players did. Casual does not equal bad. It simply means they can't play as often. I am a casual and I hate LFR/LFG, removal of attunements, lack of tiered progression, overly homogenized classes, and extreme focus on capped content. When getting an upgrade in a 5-man dungeon was cause for joy and not something we simply vendored or sharded.

Shitty players and catering to morons who refuse to learn or get better at the game should draw your ire. Casuals are fine.

If this was roughly eight years ago I would agree with you. Terrible players stole the meaning of casual from you though. They mean one and the same now. Try to find something new to call yourselves... I don't know progression players maybe?

[Perkunas]

If this was roughly eight years ago I would agree with you. Terrible players stole the meaning of casual from you though. They mean one and the same now. Try to find something new to call yourselves... I don't know progression players maybe?

I still think terribles are trying to take the casual banner in order to rally more people to their cause. I refuse to let them poison the word. Casuals need to stand up and say that we wont be grouped with these entitled baddies. We want old school Warcraft back just as much as you do.

[primalmatter]

I still think terribles are trying to take the casual banner in order to rally more people to their cause. I refuse to let them poison the word. Casuals need to stand up and say that we wont be grouped with these entitled baddies. We want old school Warcraft back just as much as you do.

I get the sentiment but its kind of like telling lfr players they are not raiders. Their delusion isn't going to be dispelled and end of the day there are more of them.

Hence the terms Mythic raider and progression raider are used.

[Perkunas]

I get the sentiment but its kind of like telling lfr players they are not raiders. Their delusion isn't going to be dispelled and end of the day there are more of them.

Hence the terms Mythic raider and progression raider are used.

I get what you're saying. The LFR people are nutters to begin with. People on the Blizzard team referred to it as "Tourist Mode" and anybody who's actually raided knows it's not raiding.

[Pull My Finger]

Are you the paladin who posts on the official forums?
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...48?page=20#394
Is this your idiotic post?
Talking about PVP:

Strange post. The bile and insolence in your tone kind of loses its oomph when you're rocking a pink girl-on-girl paedo cartoon pic as your avatar.

But yeah, people do have opinions on a game's difficulty, some might even differ from yours - yikes!

[Deleted]

No, making your game accessible to the masses is never going to cause a massive sub bleed. You might alienate or annoy the hardcore minority, but this group isn't large enough to impact your sub turnover that significantly.

[primalmatter]

No, making your game accessible to the masses is never going to cause a massive sub bleed. You might alienate or annoy the hardcore minority, but this group isn't large enough to impact your sub turnover that significantly.

Cough 8 million lost cough 8 million lost

[kary]

Complexity? I guess that's why they've pruned abilities and continue to do so...to keep things complex.

Wait, no.

Most of the things they removed were highkey useless.
Yeah, scorpid sting was soooo good. So was mocking blow. Oh not to mention mongoose bite. Curse of weakness was another one.
I miss sentry totem.

[Uoyredrum]

True despite how much some people wish it weren't.

[Kazgrel]

Most of the things they removed were highkey useless.
Yeah, scorpid sting was soooo good. So was mocking blow. Oh not to mention mongoose bite. Curse of weakness was another one.
I miss sentry totem.

Scorpid and CoW could've done something like the damage dealt debuff akin to Thunderclap and/or other abilities if they had wanted. I miss Sentry along with Water Breathing (which isn't as big an issue now that everyone has like 500% longer breath duration underwater), Cleansing Totem (or the DK Tears Totem of OPness), arms warrior Overpower (which is being re-added as a talent in Legion last I checked).

Pruning is fine if done in small bits and pieces, but some specs (such as arms warrior) got gutted far too hard in WoD. Just my $.02.

[Osmeric]

This is nonsense. Casuals did not ask for gear to be handed out and for the shift to instant gratification in general. Entitled and shitty players did. Casual does not equal bad. It simply means they can't play as often. I am a casual and I hate LFR/LFG, removal of attunements, lack of tiered progression, overly homogenized classes, and extreme focus on capped content. When getting an upgrade in a 5-man dungeon was cause for joy and not something we simply vendored or sharded.

Shitty players and catering to morons who refuse to learn or get better at the game should draw your ire. Casuals are fine.

What would an expansion look like that catered to the casuals you describe? I think it would look a lot like WoD. Other time consuming activities would be pared away to let these time-challenged players into raids.

But that didn't work, because most players are in fact bad, not casual in that sense. These players couldn't handle even normal mode raids, and they had nothing to fill their play time.

Please continue to emphasize the difference since Blizzard apparently didn't get it. Be warned that if they do get it the game will likely turn to focus on these bads to an extent not yet seen.

[primalmatter]

What would an expansion look like that catered to the casuals you describe? I think it would look a lot like WoD. Other time consuming activities would be pared away to let these time-challenged players into raids.

But that didn't work, because most players are in fact bad, not casual. These players couldn't handle even normal mode raids, and they had nothing to fill their play time.

Please continue to emphasize the difference since Blizzard apparently didn't get it. Be warned that if they do get it the game will likely turn to focus on these bads to an extent not yet seen.

So it would be like vanilla?

The problem has been trying to push bad into good content.

Give them a brd,scholo,and a strat.

Break the content apart and give them the vanilla they crave. Handing them epic and after has gotten us here.

[Daffan]

So, relevant content is only the content of the current expansion? But if there is content providing better loot for similar skill levels, how is it relevant?
(btw I'm not trolling you, it's just that defining what is a relevant content is harder than expected).


Here, you mix up "new" and "relevant".

1) Well basically, I cant expect every expansion to stay relevant forever. But at least the current one, instead of patches. The problem is those "Better loot for similar skill levels" is only accessible because they got the gear by skipping over the original relevant content.

2) Nope. It's both new to the players, therefore relevant. Because they should need it to progress.

[Deleted]

Cough 8 million lost cough 8 million lost

You misunderstand my point profoundly. Read it again and apply yourself.