[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[pateuvasiliu]

For all they know they're each other's last family.

[pateuvasiliu]

Oh, I have no doubts that Tyrion is half Targaryen.

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But... I think you were referring to the comment about Sansa and Jon? You aren't really quoting people, so sorry.

Sansa and Jon.

Tyrion's definitely a Targ.

[fakaroonie]

-Mantears when Sansa and Jon met
-Stannis confirmed dead (damn it)
-Tyrion was cool but Grey Worm is right
-Tyrell grandma is the most badass of all King's Landing
-Ramsay will get his skull bashed by Tormund
-Nice CGI tits.

[Deleted]

Anyone else find it weird how Sansa and Jon hugged and became lovey-dovey instantly? I understand how their whole family is destroyed and all that, but they haven't seen eachother in like 6 years, and growing up Sansa probably never touched Jon or had one good thing to say about him. I think it could have worked a bit better if Jon was a bit apprehensive of the hug at first then gave in.

First sighting of the Others is 298 AC
Dany is Queen of Meereen in 300AC.

At max it's been 3 years not 6.

Thinking that your family is dead or missing puts everything in perspective. Even if you argued from time to time, you still love them. Thinking they are dead or kidnapped somewhere, and seeing them after traumatic events I find it rather normal to hug them. They have seen nothing but death since they parted ways, they are just happy to see each other again.
They talk about it, Jon doesn't say she was always horrible to him (we actually never see her nasty with him) he said sometimes. And he even apologizes for being a brooder. They had their faults they were kid (just as he says).

All the events have made them wiser. I know I would do the same and be bloody glad one of my relatives is still around.

[Gib Lover]

-Mantears when Sansa and Jon met
-Stannis confirmed dead (damn it)
-Tyrion was cool but Grey Worm is right
-Tyrell grandma is the most badass of all King's Landing
-Ramsay will get his skull bashed by Tormund
-Nice CGI tits.

I still have hopes that the Mannis is still alive, but it seems pretty concrete he is dead.
Also real tits, apparently.

[Jotaux]

-Tyrion was cool but Grey Worm is right

Nah Tyrion is playing this right. Slavery is part of the slavers economy, demanding them to change overnight wouldn't work even if the slavers wanted it. That and this buys them time till Dany's return, then they can decide whether to just slaughter them all or not.

[Mavick]

Jamie mentions to Kevin in this episode that they have the 2nd largest army in Westeros, who has the largest? Is it Robin Arryn's Vale army?

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Obviously there was some CGI in that scene, but that was actually her nude. Article about it here

I'm fairly certain the Tyrell's have the largest army currently followed by the Lannisters. Tyrell's have actually suffered the lowest amount of casualties because as far as I can remember they have never committed to a lost battle, and they're the second richest (probably richest now that the Lannisters can no longer mine gold) to be able to finance one. The Lannisters were a bit chipped away at by Robb, plus their wealth is slowly becoming a thing of the past, which is why they're kind of using the Tyrell's now at this point.

The other areas mentioned (Dorne and the Vale) have done alright too, but I have no idea of the size of Dorne's army, nor has the show given any indication. I get a sense of Dorne being a place more focused on pleasure and having a smaller army with more elite fighters. And the Vale doesn't necessarily need a large army as their defense mostly relies on the impassable terrain leading to their domain. So building up a large army that's not needed for defense would be a waste.

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Anyone else find it weird how Sansa and Jon hugged and became lovey-dovey instantly? I understand how their whole family is destroyed and all that, but they haven't seen eachother in like 6 years, and growing up Sansa probably never touched Jon or had one good thing to say about him. I think it could have worked a bit better if Jon was a bit apprehensive of the hug at first then gave in.

I don't think it was weird at all actually. Sansa hadn't seen a shred of anything remotely resembling family in years and had been through the worst kind of hell during that time. And Jon just seems like more of a dude would be about it.

[mytheiya]

I think the majority of Danny haters forget a few things when it comes to why she does things, and how she thinks

1) Danny is 14 years old..if you could lead an army of men, rule over thousands and not have a OMG I'm a teenager moment when you where 14 God Bless you because I frequently has drama over how my hair was acting at that age.

2) Danny lives in an extreme patriarchal society..much like our own middle ages. Woman are vaginas and wombs, that is it, they have no worth beyond their potential to procreate. There are no Amazon women to stand behind her in this line of thinking, she has males all around her who think women don't have enough brains to pick their nose much less rule a kingdom, the only way she will ever RULE any p[art of the world of Fire and Ice is by having a man she can control like a puppet so people think she isn't in charge. Cersei tries to do this with joffery who basically was too psychotic to control, but when he is killed she does take control and tried to run things her way and better than Robert only to fail miserably, not because she is a woman, but because she has no instincts for the Game.

3) her education in anything was minimal..1) because she was a girl and her brother was next in line for the throne, and 2) because they where constantly on the run from Westerosi assassins. The only place they stayed long was the Fat Merchants (I can't remember his name of the top of my head), and her education was more academic than political.

4) The Dothraki respect strength more than anything else. The reason Dani keeps spouting titles and speaking to the khalasar the way she does is because she knows if she shows any fear or weakness she has no hope of living to fight another day. Even with the "rising from the fire" scene not one of the Dothraki would follow her is she had been a crying scared blubber baby!

O na side note: Dani never feed people to her dragons, now they may have ate a person or two on their on volition but Danni never said Here have a tasty human snack..and here some ketchup

[pateuvasiliu]

She's not 14, she's 16-17 in the books and 21 on the show.

[Deleted]

I think Dorne has a pretty huge army. Not sure I don't remember that well.

In the books Doran mentions that Dorne has the smallest army of the Seven Kingdoms (not sure if he counts Iron Islands there, can't imagine Ironborn having a very big proper army, just raiders). Dorne however is easily defendable with chokepoints and guerilla warfare so Dorne would be hard to conquer, but would be weak if their armies had to go fight elsewhere.

The biggest army in Westeros most likely means Tyrells.

[Sooba]

In the books Doran mentions that Dorne has the smallest army of the Seven Kingdoms (not sure if he counts Iron Islands there, can't imagine Ironborn having a very big proper army, just raiders). Dorne however is easily defendable with chokepoints and guerilla warfare so Dorne would be hard to conquer, but would be weak if their armies had to go fight elsewhere.

The biggest army in Westeros most likely means Tyrells.

There was a comparison made at Westeros.org once with a medieval historian analyzing and comparing Westerosi Kingdoms to European regions. The Tyrell army (and population in general) would be larger than any other according to his conclusions. Which makes complete sense given the way they're described in the books and displayed in the show.

[Wilian]

Viserys had no power and he was definitely insane, though I'd argue it's due to his absolutely shit life not because of being an incest kid.

What? Viserys is the biggest victim in this entire show.

[Simulacrum]

I think the majority of Danny haters forget a few things when it comes to why she does things, and how she thinks

...

The problem with dany isn't even what she does or thinks. It's that she does or thinks practically nothing. you could carry a fleshlight glued to a fire-resistant cutout of her around and it'd probably have achieved the same things she did. even the one thing she arguably achieved on her own, the seduction of drogo, is hardly worth bragging about. she didn't achieve that through some brilliance of her own - doubtless hundreds of other wives must've tried to take a more dominant position with their khals only to get struck down - it worked because drogo wanted it to work; it's why he married her. then, after getting him killed with her trademark-stupidity (which she doesn't even seem to feel bad about when it was referenced this episode), everything else she has done is just walk around shouting like an infant at anyone in range, doing her very best to get herself and everyone else around her killed (and succeeding with the latter quite frequently), only to be saved either by magic, by random men who want to fuck her (without her attempting to seduce them, incidentally; so no agency on her part), or by her dragons - all of which is beyond her control.

if dany was any other character, she'd have died in season 1. even if she had survived that somehow, she'd have quickly died to one of the many assassins sent after her, or been assassinated by one of her advisors, the way every other character in the setting is when they fail to protect themselves against such people. but it just so happens that everyone who meets her - including several sent to kill her - instead of behaving like they do when interacting with any other character, instead pledge their undying loyalty to her... for no real reason.

many of the other characters in the show are a billion times more impressive than her. tyrion would've been dead so many times if not for his own abilities that it's beyond counting. even someone like sansa deserves a lot of respect for her ability not to get killed by the lunatics she's been constantly surrounded by. dany? she has done nothing but try very hard to get herself killed, and been handed everything on a silver plate in spite of it, and she never learns anything from her countless mistakes (probably because she doesn't have to). she's a horrible character.

[mytheiya]

She's not 14, she's 16-17 in the books and 21 on the show.

she was 13 when she was married off to Drogo, so she just might be 16 but still 16, she is very young to be doing the things she is doing without some kind of teenage hormone interference lol

[Simulacrum]

she was 13 when she was married off to Drogo, so she just might be 16 but still 16, she is very young to be doing the things she is doing without some kind of teenage hormone interference lol

Sansa can do it just fine. So can Arya, the rest of the Starks, and tons of the other child characters encountered. Even Tommen is doing a pretty good job, weak-minded though he is.

[Deleted]

she was 13 when she was married off to Drogo, so she just might be 16 but still 16, she is very young to be doing the things she is doing without some kind of teenage hormone interference lol

Why do you think her book age is an argument for her show character being flat, under-developed, and static?

As we've already established over the fire immunity debate; the show deviates. Show Dany isn't a child, she's an annoying grown ass woman that acts like a child because reasons, but still makes it out of every sticky situation because reasons. It's not engaging to watch her scenes, no matter how many big bonfires they decide to throw in.

Arya, Bran, and Sansa are actual child characters and their abilities and characters have progressed massively throughout the course of the show, by comparison.

[Khadgar]

came across this, seems legit.

"Kings Landing only has 500.000 people in it, it is rivaled by Oldtown. Other big towns in Westeros are Lannisport, Gulltown and White Harbor.

Now we are counting things in millions.

Westeros is 3,000 miles long, and 900 miles at his widest point. That is 4,320,000 square km, but lets go and say 3,320,000 square km because It is not square shaped.
Screw it...Lets go crazy and say 2,320,000 square km.

France in 14th century had 13,400,000 people and France was lot smaller that today's France which covers are of 640,000 square km, but lets take that number.

That is 3.625 times smaller then our "little" Westeros, and that would be 48.575 mil people.

Lets cut that in half because why the frakk not.

Educated guess would be that Westeros has at minimum of 24,287,500 people in it."

[Deleted]

came across this, seems legit."

Doesn't seem that legit. It's not really an "educated guess" when you're cutting numbers in half "just because". They used the low-ball estimate for the King's Landing population, but I've no idea why they even brought it up because it wasn't used for any math following it.

I mean, they're literally just taking the population of 14thC France, multiplying it by the totally random guess number of times France fits into Westeros, based on a figure they didn't even calculate properly, and going "EDUCATED GUESS WESTEROS HAS THIS MANY PEOPLE!"

What?

[mytheiya]

her trademark-stupidity (which she doesn't even seem to feel bad about when it was referenced this episode)

I'm sure you would of spotted the fact that she sheeple lady was actually out to kill Drogo rather than help him..Im sure you , 13 years old and having no experience what so ever with people would have known deep down in yoru gizzard she was Evil. Should she have listened to the others about the sheeple lady...of coarse she should have and that's why she listens to others rather than act on her own instincts now.

and as for her feeling bad about the situations, she really couldn't show the Dothraki that she mourned Drogo or her unborn son..it would of shown weakness and they despise weakness. If you want proof she regrets loosing Drogo and the child there is a whole dream sequence where she meets up with Drogo and her unborn son and wants to stay with them in the temple of the Warlocks, but knows she has to leave and continue her fight

In the books she is reminded of her mistake and her curse when she miscarries her second child.

I'm not saying Danni is the best choice or that I love her..in fact i'd rather have Tyrion any day of the week...but she isn't hate worthy either or deserving of being called an idiot.,

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Sansa can do it just fine. So can Arya, the rest of the Starks, and tons of the other child characters encountered. Even Tommen is doing a pretty good job, weak-minded though he is.

Sansa isn't even in the situation she is in in the books, she is still a frivolous dumb ass. Arya is the exception to the rule, and she isn't a teenager I think she is around 11

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Uh, yes, she did.

Ok let me clarify..she doesn't feed anyone to them in the books..they dumb ass is killed in other ways

[eschatological]

I thought the overall episode was pretty good, didn't like the last Dany scene (and not because she's immune to fire, idgaf about that). Some thoughts:

1) I hope Tormund and Brienne don't become a thing. That was cringey.

2) I thought the reunion with Jon and Sansa went well.

3) Someone mentioned that it seemed clear that LF's plan now is made clear, he wanted to use it as an excuse to push the Vale into war with the Boltons. However, I think taking Sansa to one of the Stark-loyal Northern Houses and fomenting a rebellion would have achieved the same goals. Manipulating Sweet Robin isn't exactly rocket surgery. To me, the play with Sansa was a complete gamble. Which, btw, he would have lost if Theon didn't help her escape - so I think there's still room to criticize the validity of his plan. No doubt someone will claim Sansa's escape was all part of Littlefinger's master plan.

4) I'm glad LF's scene didn't end with Royce out the moon door. Instead, LF played the game nicely and ensured his complete loyalty for fear of death. It makes Royce look a little dumb for not seeing through LF sooner, but being a Knight of the Vale doesn't guarantee intelligence.

5) For a guy with a jet pack, LF took his sweet ass time getting back to the Vale from Winterfell last season. I wish it didn't bother me, but the first thing I thought was, "Dude, has this guy been on the road from Winterfell since last season when he skipped between KL and the North with ease?"

5) I wonder if Rickon is with the Boltons now to justify the Pink Letter. He had to do something to push Jon into coming to battle, and in the books it was that he had "Arya" captive as his wife. HE not only doesn't have Sansa in the show, but she's already at CB with Jon.

Tell me again, how Daenerys is weak and how "fire saved her" in this last eposide. Or even better, how thousands of Dothraki bowed to her, because of her "tits".

It's a ridiculous discussion, which we should probably drop. We disagree and it's fine.

6) And this is why I didn't like the Dany scene. Everything she did in that scene was reckless, stupid, and naive. Jorah and Daario got in without being seen, they probably could have gotten out without being seen, but Dany just decided that it wasn't possible, and decided to burn all the khals. And Daario and Jorah instantly were like, "Gee, okay, sure thing Khaleesi." To me, the scene showed me how weak and petty she is, and her brutality is a show of her oncoming madness. Not to mention the Dothraki response to all their khals being murdered is ludicrously bad, considering this is a superstitious society afraid of not only magic, but the salt water sea. Disregarding the argument about whether or not she should be immune to fire, again, people bow to her not because of her own personal ideology or strength, but because of some random ability to not be burnt. That ability didn't come from her strength as a person, it came from....well, we don't know where it comes from in the show, but I'm guessing through prophecy and/or magic. Which isn't a show of her strength.

I just find it hilarious that most people saw that scene as a scene of her being a badass. When I saw that scene, I was like, "Yep, this is where she starts to go mad." Her whole speech inside the Temple could have easily been out of the mouth of Aerys the Mad King.