The end of Obamacare...

[Wolfheart9]

Please ignore my ignorance, but what more should they do?

Treat you as a human being.. maybe?

[Vurdah]

All the people complaining that "obamacare" raised their premiums are kind of idiots. Your insurance companies raised your premiums to maintain their astronomical profits. Don't get mad at the bill, get mad at your greedy ass insurance company.

[Breccia]

It's an accurate representation of the reality of what ERs look like, and what they're doing.

Tell me which part you think was inaccurate.

The part where you made something up. Bandaid on an amputated arm and out the door with a painkiller? That has not happened. Trying to argue that something is a myth, by using an example that has never happened, defeats your point more than theirs. Maybe if you had tried

To an extent, they're required to keep you alive until you can seek out proper medical care. If you can't.. you'll be back.

then I wouldn't have to point out you were making ridiculous things up to prove a point.

[Matchles]

Only because the fucking hospital charges $18 for a diabetes strip that costs a few cents at your local CVS. The hospital overcharges and then negotiates down with the insurance company.

Tell me in what world (insured or not) is charging $18 for a diabetes test strip ok? Its only done like that to fuck over people both insured and non-insured.

You are paying for the doctor, the nurses, the receptionist, the building, the electricity, the water, and all the other amenities before you ever get to the profit margin.

[Wolfheart9]

All the people complaining that "obamacare" raised their premiums are kind of idiots. Your insurance companies raised your premiums to maintain their astronomical profits. Don't get mad at the bill, get mad at your greedy ass insurance company.

Pretty much this, but it's the 'cool thing' to hate Obama/Demo/Left so on. The original bill actually had stuff in place to prevent the hikes, but the republican side demanded it be removed. No, this is not blaming it on the republicans, nor bashing, it's just fact. That and the bill was originally made by a republican to begin with.. but we'll gloss over that fact.

The part where you made something up. Bandaid on an amputated arm and out the door with a painkiller? That has not happened. Trying to argue that something is a myth, by using an example that has never happened, defeats your point more than theirs. Maybe if you had tried



then I wouldn't have to point out you were making ridiculous things up to prove a point.

.. What? What did I make up?

You are paying for the doctor, the nurses, the receptionist, the building, the electricity, the water, and all the other amenities before you ever get to the profit margin.

And yet the bulk of the rest of the civilized world doesn't do that.. Huh..

[Daerio]

Please ignore my ignorance, but what more should they do?

Well, step 1 is eliminating the need to fund the health insurance industry off the back of anyone who gets sick.

Step 2 is eliminating the ability for hospitals to charge whatever they want, and then confiscate your tax return for services barely rendered.

Step 3 is probably a single payer system.

But anyway, why bother with steps on how to fix things, when people can't even agree that the system as it is is broken? Apparently, people think that the way things are now is good enough.

Me? I've thought about taking a trip to Canada to see a doctor if I really get sick. I've haven't been to a doctor in 15 years, and no insurance plan that I could pay for on my own would be of any value.

[Wildtree]

Nothing but a myth. They'll stick a bandaid on your amputated arm, give you some vicodin and put you out the door with a 3000$ bill.

Explain to me how customers are getting their money's worth out of that.

I had a little chest pain scare about 10 years ago.
Went to the ER in Omaha, NE.
There, they did the routine stethoscope check, gave me an X-Ray (which was funny enough only 50 bucks on the bill), then they've given me a 5 minutes on a breathing machine to breath in some steam.
I spent about 3 hours there. The total time I've spent with any personnel was maybe 15 min max.
$3450.00 bill.
Whoopdifuckingdoo.. They know how to make money.

[Daerio]

All the people complaining that "obamacare" raised their premiums are kind of idiots. Your insurance companies raised your premiums to maintain their astronomical profits. Don't get mad at the bill, get mad at your greedy ass insurance company.

But before Obamacare, I wasn't handing them money in exchange for nothing. Now I am.

[Breccia]

Not in all states, and not when you sign a form that waives your rights and agrees to pay regardless of your insurance companies negotiation agreement.

Nothing can protect you if you start signing random forms without reading them. But emergency care is covered, by law, by all legal insurance plans. That's part of the ACA. The relevant text starts around page 45.

[petej0]

Treat you as a human being.. maybe?

So they bandage you back up, what else?

- - - Updated - - -

Well, step 1 is eliminating the need to fund the health insurance industry off the back of anyone who gets sick.

Step 2 is eliminating the ability for hospitals to charge whatever they want, and then confiscate your tax return for services barely rendered.

Step 3 is probably a single payer system.

But anyway, why bother with steps on how to fix things, when people can't even agree that the system as it is is broken? Apparently, people think that the way things are now is good enough.

Me? I've thought about taking a trip to Canada to see a doctor if I really get sick. I've haven't been to a doctor in 15 years, and no insurance plan that I could pay for on my own would be of any value.

That doesnt answer my question.

[The Stormbringer]

Quoted for truth.
And that should not be the case.

Agreed. Then again, I am of the minority that believes medical treatment should be available to everyone, and that it shouldn't be set up in a way as to send you into the ground financially and keep you there for the rest of your life (or find some bullshit excuse to refuse to help because, whoops, you're out of money now, sorry).

[Stormspellz]

Nothing but a myth. They'll stick a bandaid on your amputated arm, give you some vicodin and put you out the door with a 3000$ bill.

Explain to me how customers are getting their money's worth out of that.

They are required to do far more then that.

[Tinykong]

Nothing can protect you if you start signing random forms without reading them. But emergency care is covered, by law, by all legal insurance plans. That's part of the ACA. The relevant text starts around page 45.

It's not a random form, it's a consent form that you sign when you walk in the door. In some states, if you don't sign the form, they can refuse service.

Balance billing laws vary by state, the language in the ACA is irrelevant in some cases. Also, just because you visit an emergency facility doesn't mean it's an "emergency" and the doctor/facility can determine your reason for visiting is not actually an emergency, and is therefore not protected in the states where it normally would be.

[Wolfheart9]

Agreed. Then again, I am of the minority that believes medical treatment should be available to everyone, and that it shouldn't be set up in a way as to send you into the ground financially and keep you there for the rest of your life (or find some bullshit excuse to refuse to help because, whoops, you're out of money now, sorry).

I'm with you on that.. Near the rest of the world has a coverage system that can care for anyone that needs it. It unfortunately won't change unless those in power force it on people, or the mindset of "I'm not paying taxes to save another person's life! I'm going to pay my own insurance insane prices to save no one's life!"

[petej0]

You are paying for the doctor, the nurses, the receptionist, the building, the electricity, the water, and all the other amenities before you ever get to the profit margin.

All those are static costs. Which can go into the cost of the visit. The cost of care is, and should be, a separate billing charge. Regardless it doesnt account for a being charged 28 times the retail cost. Especially when hospitals and clinics have the power to buy in bulk and get massive discounts, meaning they are overcharging you over even more then a retail price.

[Matchles]

And yet the bulk of the rest of the civilized world doesn't do that.. Huh..

What does that have to do with anything that was being discussed?

[Wildtree]

Agreed. Then again, I am of the minority that believes medical treatment should be available to everyone, and that it shouldn't be set up in a way as to send you into the ground financially and keep you there for the rest of your life (or find some bullshit excuse to refuse to help because, whoops, you're out of money now, sorry).

I don't think you're in a minority.. On the contrary even.
It's a minority that tries to torpedo modern healthcare as it exists in every other capitalistic country on the planet.
That needs to be said like that, since there are indeed people who believe the US cannot have decent healthcare, because it's a capitalistic country and not socialism..

[The Stormbringer]

I'm with you on that.. Near the rest of the world has a coverage system that can care for anyone that needs it. It unfortunately won't change unless those in power force it on people, or the mindset of "I'm not paying taxes to save another person's life! I'm going to pay my own insurance insane prices to save no one's life!"

People like that boggle my mind. I'm sorry, we live in a society that has formed around mutual goals and teamwork. If you can't seem to understand the benefits of making sure the people within that society are healthy and functioning as best as they are able, or seem to think you are an independent entity that can survive purely on your own merits in a time when everyone depends on everyone else, I think you're a fucking idiot and a heartless asshole.

Note: I'm not referring to you here Wolfy, just people like that who are the sort that I can't understand.

I don't think you're in a minority.. On the contrary even.
It's a minority that tries to torpedo modern healthcare as it exists in every other capitalistic country on the planet.
That needs to be said like that, since there are indeed people who believe the US cannot have decent healthcare, because it's a capitalistic country and not socialism..

Ah yes, the myth that the good ole U.S. of A isn't socialistic at all. This tends to be my response to those people.

[Wolfheart9]

What does that have to do with anything that was being discussed?

What does saying the majority of the rest of the civilized world being able to offer affordable healthcare to their people have to do with people saying that the US can't do it and any attempt to try is wrong? Who knows.

People like that boggle my mind. I'm sorry, we live in a society that has formed around mutual goals and teamwork. If you can't seem to understand the benefits of making sure the people within that society are healthy and functioning as best as they are able, or seem to think you are an independent entity that can survive purely on your own merits in a time when everyone depends on everyone else, I think you're a fucking idiot and a heartless asshole.

Note: I'm not referring to you here Wolfy, just people like that who are the sort that I can't understand.

I understood your point, don't worry ^^ I would gladly pay an extra per month on taxes that would take over my health care payments, to ensure those who couldn't manage a good plan in the old system will actually be treated properly.

[Wildtree]

"I'm not paying taxes to save another person's life!"

And yet, chances are high that the same people argue that the military needs more funding, because... you know.. keep us safe lol