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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Hablion View Post
    The Affordable Care Act did a lot of harm to people who already had insurance. For example Our Healthcare Premium went up (the cost per paycheck), They raised the deductible from about 500 to 1500 (this includes medication) and you do not get any discount and pay 100% until you get above the 1500 deductible. Basically after the ACA we are paying more for less benefits.
    And had the ACA's original version be allowed to pass they wouldn't of been able to jack the cost like that.. that and as I've said several times now, no system will work right until we regulate what those companies can make in profit. Even if we went right back to the old broken system, prices would still be insane.

  2. #262
    I live minimally, I don't have a phone or car so I can have money to spend on things that I want. For me it's about freedom of lifestyle over anything else.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Hablion View Post
    The Affordable Care Act did a lot of harm to people who already had insurance. For example Our Healthcare Premium went up (the cost per paycheck), They raised the deductible from about 500 to 1500 (this includes medication and doctor visit fees) and you do not get any discount and pay 100% until you get above the 1500 deductible. Basically after the ACA we are paying more for less benefits.
    so wait.
    your on a company plan?
    your company decides to bump up the total employee cost share...and somehow this is the ACA fault?

    ACA did allow many companies to pass on way more to the total employee cost share, and blame it all on obamacare.
    good old shell game.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    so wait.
    your on a company plan?
    your company decides to bump up the total employee cost share...and somehow this is the ACA fault?

    ACA did allow many companies to pass on way more to the total employee cost share, and blame it all on obamacare.
    good old shell game.
    My guess?

    Stage 1: Rip apart the core parts of the ACA that it's legal to jack the prices as much as they want, which will be blamed on the ACA.
    Stage 2: New president, offers a system similar to the old one with a few bells and whistles, that will 'cut down on costs'
    Stage 3: Put in new system that continues to screw over the lower class, is more expensive than what we had before ACA, provides less than the ACA, and will be praised because it's lower than ACA.

  5. #265
    To be honest it should of been a single payer system to start with.

    The compromise they made destroyed the intent of the bill.

  6. #266
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowyFanatic View Post
    As Wolfheart9 put it, had the bill not run up against Obstructionists in the House and Senate and had the states elected to work WITH the federal government instead of against it (well, red states at any rate) then NONE of that would have happened. This is the result you get when you compromise on a piece of legislation that creates a major overhaul of a bad system. You can also tell where the interests of those who dragged their feet (and still do) laid - with the companies making money hand over fist, instead of with the tax payers, many of whom are living paycheck to paycheck thanks to the deregulation (thanks Bush) of Wall Street and their massive fraud and clusterfuck. And of course the entire thing is basically one big bell curve, so you're going to ALWAYS get people who are worse off just like you'll see people who disproportionately benefit from it. The goal is to get the majority into the middle where it works for them.
    I agree with the sentiment, but a lot of it is wrong. Bush didn't really deregulate much of anything, that impacted the wallstreet crash. The issue with healthcare specifically is rooted way back to Nixon.

    The problem with healthcare is our refusal to choose between full on private care and a public option. Because we have safety nets, it lets insurance companies focus on profit and for us to iron out any kinks. What ends up happening is that those safety became norms around which insurance companies operate. While we get double charged, once through insurance and then again through Medicare. If people combined the cost of insurance and the cost of Medicare, then you will see the total cost of insurance. Those who complain that costs on insurance are too high are not realizing how truly hight they are.

    I believe the only solution is to somehow show the costs of insurance, with costs of Medicare, to show the real cost of insurance. I believe then and only then would people feel so angry at the total cost, that we will run to single payer.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I'm not arguing against it, I'm showing you that you waiting to get insurance until you need it, is what increases costs of insurance. If you were paying insurance and not using it, the insurance prices would be lower. That is the exact issue the OP is talking about... Where there isn't enouph healthy people who get insurance, as well as those who only sign up when they need it, while the mandate is not enouph to cover the differance. The issue is that people like you, pay out of pocket, then complain that prices are too high when you choose to get it. As in, you are the reason insurance are so expensive...
    You're assuming that people without insurance don't go to the doctor and have some undiagnosed medical condition that suddenly manifests itself and they are a huge drain on the insurance system. That simply isn't true. If it was, the insurance industry would collapse. It doesn't because most people are healthy, and will live a long time, and will pay in less than they pay out.

    Most people are healthy, and won't get some rare form of cancer in their 20's or 30's. The reason they need to be insured is because their premiums are defraying the costs of all those other people, the elderly and people who randomly get cancer at age 25, who are receiving a lot of benefit dollars, while contributing the same as everyone else.



    This is literally the core, basic way insurance functions. They need the people in the small part of the graph, who are statistically unlikely to ever incur a large medical bill, to pay for the rest.

    I've never said that you're good to just never go to the doctor until your 65. I said that (before the ACA) being uninsured in your 20's/30's is a calculated risk. You are statistically unlikely to experience a medical problem, and routine check ups are far, far cheaper than paying for insurance you don't use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I am ACTUALLY ASKING for them to ban me and relieve me from the misery of this thread.

  8. #268
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    You're assuming that people without insurance don't go to the doctor and have some undiagnosed medical condition that suddenly manifests itself and they are a huge drain on the insurance system.
    No, all I am assuming, is that the cost of your care increases with age. While also assuming that you will get insurance as you get older. There doesn't have to be an undiagnosed condition, other than aging. The fact that you only get insurance, when your costs justify it, is what makes insurance so expansive. If you were paying into it, during the cheap years, the cost for everyone would be lower. Simply because that is how avarages work...

    That simply isn't true. If it was, the insurance industry would collapse. It doesn't because most people are healthy, and will live a long time, and will pay in less than they pay out.
    Nope, not true at all. The cap is 65, when you got to Medicare. Insurance do not cover highest risk pools due to age or income, as those fall to the tax payer through Medicare and Medicaid. The insurance wouldn't collapse if that was the case, your prices would just be astronomical. The real cost of insurance is:

    Medicaid taxes + Medicare taxes + insurance subsidies through taxes + your direct cost = total cost

    Remember how you said if what I was saying were true, the insurance industry would collapse? Guess what the OP is saying...

    Most people are healthy, and won't get some rare form of cancer in their 20's or 30's. The reason they need to be insured is because their premiums are defraying the costs of all those other people, the elderly and people who randomly get cancer at age 25, who are receiving a lot of benefit dollars, while contributing the same as everyone else.
    No to the bold part, elderly are on government ran healthcare. The only ones it's defraying are the minimal and average cost pools. It's rigged in favor of insurance companies, because the highest risk pools are on Medicare and Medicaid.

    This doesn't actually mean anything, other than explain why there are cheaper and more expensive pools. Diabetes requires time to build, so those in their 20s, might not see it and most likely will not due to it until later. You won't lose your foot in your 20s...

    This is literally the core, basic way insurance functions. They need the people in the small part of the graph, who are statistically unlikely to ever incur a large medical bill, to pay for the rest.
    Yes, so when people like you, get around it by paying out of pocket, the cost for everyone rises.

    I've never said that you're good to just never go to the doctor until your 65. I said that (before the ACA) being uninsured in your 20's/30's is a calculated risk. You are statistically unlikely to experience a medical problem, and routine check ups are far, far cheaper than paying for insurance you don't use.
    Yes, you are statisticaly unlikely, which is why you balance the cost for later. Without that balance, people like you have no right to bitch about prices of insurance when you finally choose to get it. Because, you are part of the reason those prices are so high. You saved until you needed it and now bitch that it's too expansive... Well... duh...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    Obama didn't bring up the bathroom thing. He had nothing to do with it. Things could have stayed the way they were and be fine. Even Donald Trump agrees that the bathroom thing should stay as it always was. Because there was no problem.
    He may have not of brought up the bathroom thing, but he is definitely threatening the federal funding.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vindicatorx View Post
    I mean it costs some people more sure. I pay $100 a month for my insurance so I'm ok with that cost. Millions of people who were uninsured are now insured. Was the AHCA the best possible solution? No, but then you would be bitching about how Socialist Obama is. You realize this shit got voted in and wasn't just like Obama making it law right? Last I checked schools were responsible for adhering to Federal laws and mandates right? If they don't want to they should fund themselves this whole bathroom bullshit is past stupid.
    Oh, I totally agree. However, the federal funding, it ultimately comes from us, the taxpayers. So for them to threaten the federal funding is beyond bullshit. The taxpayers should have an overall say in this. But yes, the bathroom bullshit is way past the stupid part.
    Yes, I draw my own avatars.

  10. #270
    Deleted
    How hard is it for you people just to sit down with the books and make affordable basic healthcare?

    I mean fuck me, We English managed to do it and we had Thatcher for fuck sake.

  11. #271
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    So what is the republican idea to replace it then?
    Setting up parking meters for Hospital beds I guess.

  12. #272
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    So what is the republican idea to replace it then?
    HSA / vouchers...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Demona3 View Post
    He may have not of brought up the bathroom thing, but he is definitely threatening the federal funding.
    You think the tax payer should pay for two more bathrooms in each school, in states that are implementing a law for no reason?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  13. #273
    Obummercare is a system that was built to fail. This was brought up innumerable times before its passing and still holds true today.

    Can't say what will happen if Trump gets into office but a Hillary presidency will mean Euro-style UHC after OCare collapses.

    That's been the plan from the start - create a system that will collapse and blame it on free enterprise (which US healhcare largely isn't; it's an incredibly regulated and borked-by-gov system).

  14. #274
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Incredibale View Post
    That's been the plan from the start - create a system that will collapse and blame it on free enterprise (which US healhcare largely isn't; it's an incredibly regulated and borked-by-gov system).
    Not really borked when you can have companies with free reign jack up the price of pills for no reason.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    But before Obamacare, I wasn't handing them money in exchange for nothing. Now I am.
    Then you didn't have insurance.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    HSA / vouchers...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account

    - - - Updated - - -



    You think the tax payer should pay for two more bathrooms in each school, in states that are implementing a law for no reason?
    No I don't. I'm totally against the whole bathroom thing. Especially in schools. The majority of children are not even mature enough. I see this going very badly in the future. I guess I'm just more irritated he threatened federal funding for this shit.
    Yes, I draw my own avatars.

  17. #277
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    People are just talking past each other at this point. The ACA fixed a lot that was wrong with our system before its implementation. It also created new problems. Do the benefits outweigh the costs? For society as a whole, they do. For Most people who already had insurance which is over 80% or the population, they don't.
    I corrected your statement for you

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    Can you explain the tax on those with so called "Cadillac Plans"? What is the purpose behind it?
    Because they assume that only the rich have them (Which is totally incorrect because I have one and only make around $48k per year) and because the democrats have an insane hatred for rich people (excluding themselves of course) that they feel the rich need to be punished at every turn so they find every way they can to squeeze every penny they can from them.

    Just remember the Democrats want to force you to buy insurance so that you can have better health care, but make sure you dont buy too good of a plan because if you do, youll be punished because some of that could have went to a leech
    Last edited by Orlong; 2016-05-16 at 10:59 PM.

  18. #278
    Herald of the Titans RaoBurning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xires View Post
    ....and not short enough it was.(Yoda) I guess that is what happens when you have to vote to pass something just to find out what's in it. Called this years ago.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/healt...YY5?li=BBnb4R7

    And yes, it is a liberal/regressive news site so no need to hunker down in your safe space. Good thing Trump is going to get elected because he has already given his plan on how to fix the problem which is what we should of done in the first place.
    Just curious, how does it feel to say things which don't mean what they think they do? Not just in the OP, but I noticed you using this old canard of a quote-mine in another post, as well. I made it 14 pages and nobody called you out on it yet. Kind of surprising, really.

    To the topic proper, the complaint from insurance companies seems to be: "Higher member utilization rates and the ease with which consumers can change health plans are set to cause UnitedHealth to lose around $500 million on its Obamacare individual marketplace plans in 2016."

    So, basically, now that insurance companies have to do their jobs and pay claims, they're losing money. Fine. Let them rot. The sooner they die the sooner we can get some single payer goodness up in this bitch. I hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    This is America. We always have warm dead bodies.
    if we had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that.

  19. #279
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    United never went full blast into the ACA in the first place... Articles on this topic keep spouting "largest insurer this, that, etc"... UHC only insured a couple hundred thousand people through healthcare exchanged... 95%+ of their business is insuring businesses, exchanges are literally some of their first individual plans. They are the largest insurer in the country, but they are literally almost nothing among health insurance exchange/individual plans.

    While the insurance companies (like Anthem) who emphasized individual plans as well as participated heavily in medicare/medicaid previously are (after a few bumps along the way) making profits on ACA exchanges and have expressed absolutely no interest in leaving.

    But hey, gotta fear monger to get those clicks and get that ad revenue, am I right?

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Vurdah View Post
    Then you didn't have insurance.
    Still don't but the money I pay as a fine could have paid for a few dr visits, instead I work through the flu, tape my cut finger back shut, and wrap a towel and a belt around my head so I can sleep with the tooth pain

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