Casualization is the biggest problem wow: True or false

[Queen of Hamsters]

Yet it has degraded since then..

I call it primalmatter's greater entropy theory.

The more you cater to casuals the closer you get to facebook.

Again, WoW was always catered to casuals. Time you got over it.
Funny how so few (if any?) of the people clamoring for hardcore, are actually hardcore gamers by standards of today and thus rubbing shoulders with the 1% of the 1% in any game.... Farting around on a server perpetually stuck in 11 years ago, doesn't make you a hardcore player. Plenty of people casually play on Classic servers when not doing stuff on retail or in other games just fine.

Hell, by standards of "hardcore" today, I'm a casual.

[Perkunas]

Most players never made it to make level in Vanilla and they just had more new players coming in the leaving.

Because the game was actually compelling and a real MMO? It's obvious the pendulum has swung too far to the ease of access side. It needs to swing back.

[Donald Hellscream]

False, I think it is cheap to just blame the games short comings on "casuals".. Casual is a fucking broad term when it comes to World of Warcraft.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Because the game was actually compelling and a real MMO? It's obvious the pendulum has swung too far to the ease of access side. It needs to swing back.

By most players never reached max level, I think that's means most quit or got burned out. Popularity drew them in but keeping them was a lot harder.

[Queen of Hamsters]

By most players never reached max level, I think that's means most quit or got burned out. Popularity drew them in but keeping them was a lot harder.

Exactly.

People have been trying and falling in love with and staying with the game just fine beyond Classic. What keeps people playing, is content they'll find worthwhile. Acting like burnout, feeling that "there's nothing for me to do!" or straight up boredom or bad behaviour didn't happen before x expansion, is to gloss over history with nostalgia.

And no, it PROBABLY didn't mean that "bads and casuals quit because the game took skill!!!!1"...same as people didn't quit WoD because they couldn't down Mythic bosses or rank in PVP...they quit because of burnout, a lack of content and boredom and a slew of other reasons since there's as many reasons for why people quit as there are people quitting, often in a combination.

[Perkunas]

By most players never reached max level, I think that's means most quit or got burned out. Popularity drew them in but keeping them was a lot harder.

Lots of people quit, but there are countless people who just didn't make it to cap in Vanilla and kept playing. They started late, or they alt-hopped, or they rerolled servers/factions/classes, they didn't play enough, etc.


MMO's have a natural turnover. Also, the amount of people playing at the end of Vanilla was a few million more than we currently have. These days everybody knows World of Warcraft and it's population is sputtering even worse. I'd like to see what would happen if they actually released a new game based on the ideas of the original WoW and real MMO's where time and effort translated into reward.

[primalmatter]

Again, WoW was always catered to casuals. Time you got over it.
Funny how so few (if any?) of the people clamoring for hardcore, are actually hardcore gamers by standards of today and thus rubbing shoulders with the 1% of the 1% in any game.... Farting around on a server perpetually stuck in 11 years ago, doesn't make you a hardcore player. Plenty of people casually play on Classic servers when not doing stuff on retail or in other games just fine.

Hell, by standards of "hardcore" today, I'm a casual.

What are you going on about?

I get it everquest was more hardcore then wow... what point is it you are trying to make?

To keep wow casual it should try to male itself simpler then its competition in this moment in time that being facebook?

Wow has swung to far in the direction of catering to bad players and they paid for it in wod.

[Queen of Hamsters]

What are you going on about?

I get it everquest was more hardcore then wow... what point is it you are trying to make?

To keep wow casual it should try to male itself simpler then its competition in this moment in time that being facebook?

Wow has swung to far in the direction of catering to bad players and they paid for it in wod.

What are YOU on about?
WoD didn't have enough content. In fact, they catered more to those of us seeking challenge, than those that do not. Hence, the massive drop in subs.
You don't have to be MLG to level characters on Classic realms. Never have, never will. Or is everyone playing on and constantly feeling challenged by Classic leveling content somehow unable to learn from their mistakes vs moronic AI and thus part of the "bad player" crowd...? That would explain how some famous WoWers can sit and proclaim how "only Classic required skill!!" with a straight face...

[Perkunas]

What are YOU on about?
WoD didn't have enough content. In fact, they catered more to those of us seeking challenge, than those that do not. Hence, the massive drop in subs.
You don't have to be MLG to level characters on Classic realms. Never have, never will. Or is everyone playing on and constantly feeling challenged by Classic leveling content somehow unable to learn from their mistakes vs moronic AI and thus part of the "bad player" crowd...? That would explain how some famous WoWers can sit and proclaim how only Classic required skill with a straight face...

People came back to the game because Blizzard cultivated the nostalgia of BC. From the artwork to the zones and the story. They marketed it to the older players and when they came back to world of Farmvillecraft with the fucking garrison they all bounced.

[Queen of Hamsters]

People came back to the game because Blizzard cultivated the nostalgia of BC. From the artwork to the zones and the story. They marketed it to the older players and when they came back to world of Farmvillecraft with the fucking garrison they all bounced.

And the 1% kept on raiding, because they had their content. Less of it, but still there.

[Blayze]

Cough 8 million lost cough 8 million lost

Cough no content for anyone other than raiders cough.
Cough almost exactly the same as pre-4.3 Cataclysm cough.

[primalmatter]

What are YOU on about?
WoD didn't have enough content. In fact, they catered more to those of us seeking challenge, than those that do not. Hence, the massive drop in subs.
You don't have to be MLG to level characters on Classic realms. Never have, never will. Or is everyone playing on and constantly feeling challenged by Classic leveling content somehow unable to learn from their mistakes vs moronic AI and thus part of the "bad player" crowd...? That would explain how some famous WoWers can sit and proclaim how "only Classic required skill!!" with a straight face...

Here is the thing though son...

Your wrong.

WoD was aimed at casuals it was blizzards love song to them. Garrisons,mythic dungeons,treasure hunting, rares, world mobs, invasions, weekly story quests, TJ and more.

Never before has more been given to casuals. They looked at this feast and said in one unified voice " I Want TIER from LFR"

You keep trying to strawman how wow has changed. No it wasn't some insane feat of skill to hit cap in vanilla. It was harder then getting ilv 700 in wod.

The game has declined. Things have been made utterly trivial hell I soloed heroic dungeons on my mage out of boredom and to see if I could. The game needs a tune up. Things are a bit better in legion at least in beta but I don't think it will last once people start to gear

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Cough no content for anyone other than raiders cough.
Cough almost exactly the same as pre-4.3 Cataclysm cough.

Wod was the expac with more content for casual players then ever before only raiders got snubbed

[Osmeric]

So, people should either go through 20 days of grinding or buy boosts? That's not smart planning by any stretch of imagination.



Star Wars went to a completely opposite direction from Wildstar. The reason SWTOR failed was (as for many MMORPGs) not considering a proper endgame and putting too much work on leveling experience. Oh, and wanting to create a WoW clone to begin with, while the SW universe offered sooo much more possibilities.

SWTOR has now abandoned raiding entirely, hasn't it?

[Perkunas]

And the 1% kept on raiding, because they had their content. Less of it, but still there.

The content for terribles is still there too and the game is still flopping. Loot For Retards wasn't taken out and the baddies can also get easy gear from Tanaan, Afkshran, Garrisons. So enlighten me here.

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SWTOR has now abandoned raiding entirely, hasn't it?

It has and the game is no longer really an MMO. You get like 15 minutes of gameplay every few months and that's it.

[Blayze]

Wod was the expac with more content for casual players then ever before only raiders got snubbed

Bullshit, casuals got fuck all, purely because everything that wasn't raiding was designed to funnel them into raiding in the vain hope of propping up the ancient concept of the "raid tier" for yet another expansion.

That's why dailies became soulless murderbars to fill up.

Trouble is, you can't make casuals into hardcores. Blizzard tried during Cataclysm, and it bit them in the arse because when they told players "become hardcore or stop playing our game," players stopped playing their game and Blizzard had to virtually beg them to come back for 4.3.

Casuals generally just stick with LFR. That your part of the game can't support its own existence is no fault of the rest of the community.

[Perkunas]

Bullshit, casuals got fuck all, purely because everything that wasn't raiding was designed to funnel them into raiding in the vain hope of propping up the ancient concept of the "raid tier" for yet another expansion.

That's why dailies became soulless murderbars to fill up.

Trouble is, you can't make casuals into hardcores. Blizzard tried during Cataclysm, and it bit them in the arse because when they told players "become hardcore or stop playing our game," players stopped playing their game and Blizzard had to virtually beg them to come back for 4.3.

Casuals generally just stick with LFR. That your part of the game can't support its own existence is no fault of the rest of the community.

This is bullshit. You are conflating bads to casuals again. I am a Casual and I LOVED the pre-nerf 5 man content in Cata. They told people to stop sucking and the shitty players bitched and moaned.

[primalmatter]

Bullshit, casuals got fuck all, purely because everything that wasn't raiding was designed to funnel them into raiding in the vain hope of propping up the ancient concept of the "raid tier" for yet another expansion.

That's why dailies became soulless murderbars to fill up.

Trouble is, you can't make casuals into hardcores. Blizzard tried during Cataclysm, and it bit them in the arse because when they told players "become hardcore or stop playing our game," players stopped playing their game and Blizzard had to virtually beg them to come back for 4.3.

Casuals generally just stick with LFR. That your part of the game can't support its own existence is no fault of the rest of the community.

Sorry but it was a casuals playground. From what I listed to mythic dungeons. Raiders were the only ones ripped off. You were never given more to do... but you just followed the easy loot.

[Queen of Hamsters]

The content for terribles is still there too and the game is still flopping. Loot For Retards wasn't taken out and the baddies can also get easy gear from Tanaan, Afkshran, Garrisons. So enlighten me here.

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It has and the game is no longer really an MMO. You get like 15 minutes of gameplay every few months and that's it.

And the fact that you use the term "Loot for Retards" just show what kind of mentality we're dealing with here. I guess I'm simply not one of those people that plays for gear, so I don't understand this view based in "everyone just plays for gear and when gear is fast to get the game fails!!1!"...the game fails to ME when there's not enough content.

MoP had PVP, world content, regular patches offering both instanced and non-instanced content, different progression paths, several difficulties of Raiding, more casual options etc etc and it did just fine.

[Osmeric]

This is bullshit. You are conflating bads to casuals again. I am a Casual and I LOVED the pre-nerf 5 man content in Cata. They told people to stop sucking and the shitty players bitched and moaned.

Terminological arguments are boring; can you nod at the meaning he is using and address the argument on those terms?

[primalmatter]

Terminological arguments are boring; can you nod at the meaning he is using and address the argument on those terms?

Hate to say this in fact it kinda hurts me but osmeric is right.

Casuals,bad,terribads,awful,helmet heads, drool divers.

We all understand what the other person means.