Fury Legion Discussion

[MORGATH99]

is haste going to be more important than before ? will it come before crit or mastery?

[Archimtiros]

is haste going to be more important than before ? will it come before crit or mastery?

Yes.

/10 char.

[Khelon]

is haste going to be more important than before ? will it come before crit or mastery?

More important than before? As in just like now in WoD?

Its going to be important, but it will heavily depend on how competitive Frenzy will be. If its the go to talent you dont have to get more than 11% in the first raid & probably a little more if you want to pick avatar or wrecking ball over outburst.

With 26% haste you can have nearly a full window of enrage & a full window of recklessness inside your bladestorm. It will also allow for 3 gcd's inside each enrage window regardless if you enraged with bloodthirst or rampage. So yes I'd say its going to be really important.

But from there on I dont really know how much crit you will need before you should stop and go full mastery, tuning can easily change all of this.

[Rikhart]

I wish frenzy and inner rage would be on different tiers.

[Ferozan]

is haste going to be more important than before ? will it come before crit or mastery?

The basic Logic for Haste's effects on Legion's Fury is as follows:

Autoattacks generate Rage. Haste increases autoattacks' frequency.
Enrage buff gives you +100% attack speed, which also increases their frequency.
Haste reduces the Global Cooldown (down to 1 second (50% haste, if they didn't change) and Bloodthirst's cooldown, which gives you more Enrage Windows when they crit.
Haste gives you more Furious Slashes, which helps your BTs crit.
Haste shortens bladestorm (6s), making it get more uptime during Battle Cry (5s) and Enrage Window (4s).
Haste directly and indirectly increases the number of Rampages you cast, which gives you Enrage and more procs on Odyn's Fury and Rage of the Valarjar.

TL;DR Haste directly increases the number of skills you use through a fight, without affecting the duration of Enrage and any other CD/Proc the spec has.
Haste still gets devalued when you can't keep 100% uptime on a boss fight, but as a warrior that has no Dots at all, i believe any stat gets devalued at the same amount.

If i had to guess our best stats, it would probably be Haste > Mastery > Crit at start, with Mastery getting closer to Haste for every % of haste we get for being near 50%. Even though crit is still good, it loses value because of Battle Cry and Furious Slash, but it still is +100% damage when it procs.
We will see after the tuning and when the theorycrafters start crunching the numbers when it is complete.

[Artunias]

LOL. Just saw the post about talents, what a fucking joke.

Maybe if the talents enhanced and didn't enable entire aspects of a class we wouldn't feel like we had to change talents constantly to be effective.

[blitzcrank]

LOL. Just saw the post about talents, what a fucking joke.

Maybe if the talents enhanced and didn't enable entire aspects of a class we wouldn't feel like we had to change talents constantly to be effective.

Can you link it please?

[Beardyface]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6264?page=4#72

If this change goes live I quit this game. Flat out. I've never seen developers so out of touch with their own game. It's mind boggling.

From Watcher:

An area that has appeared to need a bit more friction, however, is actually talent changes. Especially with no reagent cost at all now, it can be all too easy to activate AoE talents before larger packs of enemies in a dungeon, and then switch back to single-target talents before a lieutenant or a boss. Or someone might switch to a passive movement-speed talent when traversing an area, and then back to something functional before entering combat. At that point, we're often hardly talking about a meaningful choice at all, but rather a nuisance of extra button-presses or UI navigation before you can use your desired talents.

And so, alongside removing the respec cost, that same upcoming build will also restrict the ability to change talents when away from a safe area (defined as an area that provides the Rested state). We currently plan to give Scribes a recipe to craft a consumable Tome that can be dropped in order to allow all nearby players to retalent freely for a time - particularly useful for group play.

[MORGATH99]

- - - Updated - - -

The basic Logic for Haste's effects on Legion's Fury is as follows:

Autoattacks generate Rage. Haste increases autoattacks' frequency.
Enrage buff gives you +100% attack speed, which also increases their frequency.
Haste reduces the Global Cooldown (down to 1 second (50% haste, if they didn't change) and Bloodthirst's cooldown, which gives you more Enrage Windows when they crit.
Haste gives you more Furious Slashes, which helps your BTs crit.
Haste shortens bladestorm (6s), making it get more uptime during Battle Cry (5s) and Enrage Window (4s).
Haste directly and indirectly increases the number of Rampages you cast, which gives you Enrage and more procs on Odyn's Fury and Rage of the Valarjar.

TL;DR Haste directly increases the number of skills you use through a fight, without affecting the duration of Enrage and any other CD/Proc the spec has.
Haste still gets devalued when you can't keep 100% uptime on a boss fight, but as a warrior that has no Dots at all, i believe any stat gets devalued at the same amount.

If i had to guess our best stats, it would probably be Haste > Mastery > Crit at start, with Mastery getting closer to Haste for every % of haste we get for being near 50%. Even though crit is still good, it loses value because of Battle Cry and Furious Slash, but it still is +100% damage when it procs.
We will see after the tuning and when the theorycrafters start crunching the numbers when it is complete.

thanks for the answer man really all i needed to know was there much appreciated

[Exotath]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6264?page=4#72

If this change goes live I quit this game. Flat out. I've never seen developers so out of touch with their own game. It's mind boggling.

From Watcher:

It is annoying. Looks like I am going to end up making two of the same specs and then switching back and forth for the talents (ST/AOE).

[Jaybee9084]

It is annoying. Looks like I am going to end up making two of the same specs and then switching back and forth for the talents (ST/AOE).

Sadly it wont work that way in Legion anymore. Currently you have Dual Spec, which is literally two specs you can make whatever spec you want. In legion, you have access to all your specs, but you cannot make your Arms spec into a Fury spec or vice versa. You have the one prot spec, the one arms spec, and the one fury.

[Exotath]

Sadly it wont work that way in Legion anymore. Currently you have Dual Spec, which is literally two specs you can make whatever spec you want. In legion, you have access to all your specs, but you cannot make your Arms spec into a Fury spec or vice versa. You have the one prot spec, the one arms spec, and the one fury.

Well shit. 10char's of saddness.

[Deleted]

The basic Logic for Haste's effects on Legion's Fury is as follows:

Autoattacks generate Rage. Haste increases autoattacks' frequency.
Enrage buff gives you +100% attack speed, which also increases their frequency.
Haste reduces the Global Cooldown (down to 1 second (50% haste, if they didn't change) and Bloodthirst's cooldown, which gives you more Enrage Windows when they crit.
Haste gives you more Furious Slashes, which helps your BTs crit.
Haste shortens bladestorm (6s), making it get more uptime during Battle Cry (5s) and Enrage Window (4s).
Haste directly and indirectly increases the number of Rampages you cast, which gives you Enrage and more procs on Odyn's Fury and Rage of the Valarjar.

TL;DR Haste directly increases the number of skills you use through a fight, without affecting the duration of Enrage and any other CD/Proc the spec has.
Haste still gets devalued when you can't keep 100% uptime on a boss fight, but as a warrior that has no Dots at all, i believe any stat gets devalued at the same amount.

If i had to guess our best stats, it would probably be Haste > Mastery > Crit at start, with Mastery getting closer to Haste for every % of haste we get for being near 50%. Even though crit is still good, it loses value because of Battle Cry and Furious Slash, but it still is +100% damage when it procs.
We will see after the tuning and when the theorycrafters start crunching the numbers when it is complete.

Very interesting. Thank you

Legion is still work in progress but how valuable do you think Haste is to be in PvP? Would you rate Gnome, Goblin and Troll for Fury PvE and PvP?

[Khelon]

Very interesting. Thank you

Legion is still work in progress but how valuable do you think Haste is to be in PvP? Would you rate Gnome, Goblin and Troll for Fury PvE and PvP?

Like you said legion is still work in progress and that goes for the "fixed" gear stats in pvp aswell. Without that its not easy to tell if the stat will be needed or not.

Now that recklessness is finally becoming 100% crit, I still think 2% critical dmg will be way better than 1% haste or 15% haste on 3 min cd.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

What's the thoughts on races for Legion?
Alliance:
- Gnome 10 more max rage allows more pooling rage which can be useful for many things. Also 1% haste which might be one of tfe 2 stats to go for.
- Dwarf 2% crit damage, maybe better towards the end of Legion.
- Human... crapstick.
- Draenei flat STR and a small heal.
- Worgen 1% Crit and a sprint.
- Night Elf 1% crit/haste day/night.

For Alliance it looks like Gnome or NE will be the best choices early on with maybe Dwarf later on?

Anyone that plays horde have any guesses for Horde Racials? Im Guessing Goblin, Troll, Orc and Tauren?

[Khelon]

What's the thoughts on races for Legion?
Alliance:
- Gnome 10 more max rage allows more pooling rage which can be useful for many things. Also 1% haste which might be one of tfe 2 stats to go for.
- Dwarf 2% crit damage, maybe better towards the end of Legion.
- Human... crapstick.
- Draenei flat STR and a small heal.
- Worgen 1% Crit and a sprint.
- Night Elf 1% crit/haste day/night.

For Alliance it looks like Gnome or NE will be the best choices early on with maybe Dwarf later on?

Anyone that plays horde have any guesses for Horde Racials? Im Guessing Goblin, Troll, Orc and Tauren?

Human racial got changed you know, 1% str is not going to suck compared to the other 1% stats.

[Rikhart]

I would say 1% crit classes will be even more valuable, because BT no longer having bonus crit. Maybe rampage enrage will offset that though?

[Ferozan]

Very interesting. Thank you

Legion is still work in progress but how valuable do you think Haste is to be in PvP? Would you rate Gnome, Goblin and Troll for Fury PvE and PvP?

Can't really say because tuning hasn't happened yet and i almost never played PVP as Fury.
Haste always lost its value in PVP as melee due to uptime and almost no dots that melee classes have scaling off it.
With Crit doing 150% damage in pvp on legion as well, stats for PVP would probably follow WoD's as Versa > Mastery > Crit >= Haste, however, as someone posted above, PVP will have Fixed Stats, so you shouldn't even bother with them.

For Races, since i only play horde and actually do not know the alliance racials, i believe

Goblins will be OK, 1% haste is not bad and rocket jump is a nice utility, even though we already got mobility covered.
Trolls' berserking is still 15% for 10 secs with 3 min cd. Even though haste is good, i don't know if a haste CD will be that good.
Orcs still have Blood Fury, which is good but not the best.
Taurens got 2% crit damage, which will be good for warriors in general, because of battle cry. Fury's battle cry, however, already adds +30% crit damage with traits, possibly more if the relic gives it additional rank, so the bonus would increase from 230/240/250/260 to 232/242/252/262. Every point in this talent kinda devalues that racial, because the % gains are less and less with every trait level-up.
Blood Elves are still good with 1% crit, however, i still think Arcane Torrent is the best racial for raiding because of the silence that interrupts mobs in PVE.
Undeads i don't know if the life drain racial had any changes, but it always kinda sucked. Gotta wait the theorycrafters on this one to see if it is remotely viable.

With that said, i can't really rank them right now, i can assure, however, that if they do not change them, undeads will be at the bottom.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Human racial got changed you know, 1% str is not going to suck compared to the other 1% stats.

Didn't know that, is it 1% of base STR or scaling with gear though? Because if it's base then it's worthless.

*edit*
Checked and it actually scales with gear, actually really strong, probably best by miles if it sticks?
At 680 ilvl (starter on beta) it's 45 strength bonus, could get very strong at least when compared to Draeneis 65 strength (not scaling).

[Khelon]

Didn't know that, is it 1% of base STR or scaling with gear though? Because if it's base then it's worthless.

*edit*
Checked and it actually scales with gear, actually really strong, probably best by miles if it sticks?
At 680 ilvl (starter on beta) it's 45 strength bonus, could get very strong at least when compared to Draeneis 65 strength (not scaling).

Draenei will scale with level, but it will probably end up being better than human in the first raid/pvp season and then human will pull ahead with more gear/2nd season.