Can space colonization unite the human race?

[--Code--]

I think about this all the time, and I just thought I'd see what other people think.

I don't think we can solve our issues through politics or wars, we just can't. We have been killing each other since the dawn of man and what have we gained from it? A redistribution of power? Finding new creative ways to kill each other? It just dumbfounds me how we have learned nothing from our history. Most wars have been over religion, and that's a serious issue but I don't want to get into that. The only real way in my eyes towards unification is leaving Earth. I don't think it would eliminate our problems immediately, but it's a step, and it would take time. Discuss!

Cue "Come Together, The Beatles"

[s_bushido]

No. It would just be one more thing to fight about. Exploring new territory on this planet didn't exactly unite people...and while we may have progresses a little since then, we're still human.

[Unionoob]

I can see that as uniting force on earth but I think new colonized planets wouldn't want to be united with earth.

[--Code--]

No. It would just be one more thing to fight about. Exploring new territory on this planet didn't exactly unite people...and while we may have progresses a little since then, we're still human.

Good point, we are only human, and I hope we can overcome our flaws some day, but realize this isn't merely discovering another continent, this is virtually unlimited space and having the ability to occupy that space. I think that would make people drop what they were doing and take a good long look at themselves.

[McDeloud]

No, just additional reason to fight for.

[Skroe]

Fuck no.

Quite the opposite actually. We should make sure that Mars has a distinctly Western character. We should go with the ESA, and keep going with the ESA. Russi and China can play in Low Earth Orbit.

Why do I believe this? Well for a few reasons.

First and foremost look at the history of the Colonization of the Americas. The Spanish arrived first, but they rapidly focused on just central and south American. And here we are, over 500 years later, and their distinct culture formed the foundation on which all of Latin America was built (along with Portugal for Brazil).

Same with North America. New England certainly has more of a Colonial "British" cultural identity than Loisisana, which maintained French traditions, and so forth. And this is hundreds of years later.

The point is, whoever goes to Mars to STAY is likely to form the foundation of whatever society forms organically on mars over the centuries. I've long believed that Mars colonization will go slow. The first mission will be 6 astronauts on a round trip, then long duration (ten year missions lets call them) will begin that will see the populations well to the 20s, and then probably 50 by the end of the century. I'd say that by the end of the 22nd century there will be a few hundred people on Mars, and it will be the 23rd before we're talking a few thousand.

Think about that for a moment. How long will it be before missions to Mars stop being just government employees and start being contractors? And what happens when people are vetted less stringently, crimes happen and people on 10 year missions start having sex and children? There is going to need to be a legal system, a civil society that takes shape on Mars or anywhere else.

It is in the West's long term interests that that has a Western character. Not a Chinese one. Not a Russian one. Because chance are, that'll stick. We adopt some kind of globally-representative United Nations approach, that is mostly pointless by the way (Bangladesh has nothing to contribute to going to Mars, for example), and Mars will adopt that social character. We'll be stuck with it.

Mars may be independent some day. It may be an American State. It may be a legacy project. Who knows. But let's not make the mistake of adopting early 21st century willy-nilly idealism for really no practical purpose onto something that will have permanent effects. So no, no sharing, and no unity. Space is for the West. Everyone else is stuck on Earth.

[Deleted]

I don't think it will be some grand cause or threat that will unite humanity.

It will be globalism, interconnectivity, technology, entertainment, that kind of stuff. I like to think that eventually the entire world will have roughly the same standard of living, which i think will happen simply through greed of the stronger countries. Once everybody has food, shelter, education and entertainment a lot of the reasons for conflict will ebb away. At that point entertainment, language, globalism etc will take off to a whole new level and people will start to realise they aren't so different.

what i mean by it happening through greed is this: the west invest in china to build their shit, the jobs require the population to be educated a bit and for the region to be politically stable. Eventually china becomes to expensive, so they start to invest/stabilize/industrialize the next poor place. eventually you run out of poor places and each country is strong enough to catch up to the stronger nations on their own power.

[Chirri]

We may unite under threat, but not over "bonus resources" out in space unless. I can also see a single, wealthy company hiring from around the world and putting people to work for them out in space... but not as countries or as a species until some of our behavioral quirks get worked out. Greed and egos are issues yet to be solved, and I don't see a life of plenty solving them. If we're all healthy, housed, fed, and comfortable, people will still want to out-do one another and try to keep the accomplishment as theirs alone. Not all, but enough.

[Gamdwelf]

No it will make us spacys hate you dirty Earthlings.

[Demona3]

Not really. The only thing I can see is perhaps uniting the human race to set off into space to colonize it somehow. However, once we colonize one area, I'm willing to bet a lot of the humans would set off into different directions - unless there is a resource that everyone must have that's only found on one planet or something.

[--Code--]

Space is for the West. Everyone else is stuck on Earth.

So you want the Empire? I don't think Alderaan would like that.

[Powerogue]

Only if we unite in taking that land away from the aliens.

[Alvito]

The chance for new land and resources, that will cause more problems at first. Some day humans might figure it all out and stop trying to kill each other or take from each other. None of us will ever see those times though.

[Skroe]

So you want the Empire?

No. I want the seed of what's to come have Western characteristics and be Western owned and operated for as long as possible.

That is unless you think the Chinese Legal system is something that should be held in such high regard it should be exported across the solar system.

Furthermore the International Space STation is empirical evidence that international space cooperating doesn't work. Sure the US, JAXA and ESA get along swimingly. But the US+Friends have been at loggerheads with Russia over pretty much everything since day one. Russia's a decade behind schedule on consutrction. It's segment's early history was deeply troubled. It's utterly gouging for Soyuz seats. That legal example I told - the ISS partners worked for about a decade on establishing a legal code for the ISS (as in, what happens if an American punches a Russian)... and ended up abandoning it because of intractable differences, instead operating under the assumption that every ISS crew member is so thoroughly vetted that such a situation is unlikely in the extreme.

The ISS design itself is far more complicated than its direct predecessor plan, Space Station Freedom, was, in large part because of the inclusion of Russia. The segments operate on different voltages, have different air locks (which require different space suits because the US suits won't fit through Russia's cramped airlocks).

There is a historic analogy in this. Operation Allied Force in 1999 was very complicated, and during the Invasion fo Afghanistan 2.5 years later, the US intentionally did not make it a NATO mission because it didn't want the complications that plagued NATO at the time. The ISS is the exact same deal. The complications of it, and the difficulty of dealing with the Russians, have informed the follow up SLS / Orion program. The ESA is building the Orion Service Module, but Russia will play no role going to Mars.

And on top of that, under the law, the US space program cannot work with the Chinese. That includes SpaceX, an American company, selling flights to China.

[Yunru]

Nope:


There will be still wars. But for sectors. If your company would find some rare mineral that is worth milions on earth i am 100% sure some other company would try to take it over for themself, since space is pretty much a lawless zone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty

[--Code--]

No. I want the seed of what's to come have Western characteristics and be Western owned and operated for as long as possible.

That is unless you think the Chinese Legal system is something that should be held in such high regard it should be exported across the solar system.

I hold no high regard for any single government, they all have faults and merits. The ability to colonize other planets, not just Mars, would defeat conflicting governments would it not? There's enough space for all of us. We are human, all of us, space doesn't belong to "the West", nor should it. This kind of thinking terrifies me because I know it's the most likely outcome. Perhaps we don't deserve to leave Earth until we've overcome our human faults, or gone extinct.

[Khadgar]

Not until Religion and Race don't exist anymore.

kinda like that South Park episode that features future humans / goobacks which are a hairless uniform mix of all races" with the same skin color, while their language is a guttural mixture of all world languages.

[Skroe]

I hold no high regard for any single government, they all have faults and merits. The ability to colonize other planets, not just Mars, would defeat conflicting governments would it not? There's enough space for all of us. We are human, all of us, space doesn't belong to "the West", nor should it. This kind of thinking terrifies me because I know it's the most likely outcome. Perhaps we don't deserve to leave Earth until we've overcome our human faults, or gone extinct. Not sure...

There actually isn't enough space for all of us.

Of the "prime real estate" in the solar system, your options are parts of the Moon, Mars, parts of Callisto and Gaynemede, maybe Titan and that's it.

There's hundreds of moons but most offer no economic incentive to go or others (like Europa) are too radioactive for humans to live.

So no. No sharing. The West needs to buy up all the best property.

And they wouldn't defeat conflicting governments at all, because no government will want to share either. They'll want to protect and expand their interests and those of their citizens. They will not and have no reason to be selfless.

And besides the fact of the matter is the "whole of humanity" brings basically nothing to the table. The US and ESA have by far the most advanced space programs on the planet. Russia is good at putting people and sattelites into LEO and little more. China's rockets are woefully inadequate for anything substantial beyond LEO work.

[Wells]

Wait, you think a planet and multiple significant moons and asteroids is too little to share?

[--Code--]

Not until Religion and Race don't exist anymore.

kinda like that South Park episode that features future humans / goobacks which are a hairless uniform mix of all races" with the same skin color, while their language is a guttural mixture of all world languages.

I agree, I'm just hopeful that can happen before we go extinct. There are people today that live without religion or race issues and they're stuck watching the world burn.