Upcoming talent change gutting

[Danuel]

RL during raid progress. "Ok mates 5min break after boss for respec" cool

[Ehuehuecopter]

When you had a 15/31/5 or a 41/5/5 spec it was SO full of useless crap filler talents there I cant begin to tell you. Extra passives that you never understood extra spells that were so situational you forgot to use and most of all time consuming to set up and very costly if u made a mistake and clicked ok. Now we come back to that with a twist. "free of charge in a city or inn or class hall". Awesome.

*

OLD TALENTS were really a crap "WOW 5% MANA???? WORTH 5 points."


NEW TALENTS otherwise are pretty different if not "playstyle change" it is OK to "pay" a price (that is gold or consumable) to change your minmaxepeen spec for gain 0.4% dps on recount and yet be on the bottom of recount.


But until we see how they implement this change....you can only cry on nothing

[Deleted]

My only issue with this is that it is another piece of junk to carry in the bags.

How? You have respec tomes in your bags now. You'll sell them and replace them with group tomes in Legion and that's it.

TBH the whining here is pathetic. Even if the item will be semi-valuable during first weeks/months it will soon go down in price (like flasks or anything). If you'll in a raid guild, you'll have 20 stacks in your bank anyway. If you're not, you're likely not going to need it anyway, and if you do, it's a simple matter of getting a stack from a scribe or making it on your own scribe.

An at the same time, it's another stable source of money for Inscription. What's not to like?

[RobertoCarlos]

We think its lame but some people call this "identity". I rest my case at this point.

Guess logic isnt at the forefront of blizzard atm. Its like how they think taking away more spells will make classes more diverse again.

[l33t]

Fail logic coupled with a fail approach to a common problem. You want people out in the world not hugging their class hall/garrison. So why restrict them? Oh yeah because of the illusion of having a "meaningful" choice. Same meaning as "choosing" between burgers in a mcdonalds.

I thought people buy burgers in McD to eat, not to enjoy the meaningful choice of ordering cheeseburger or hamburger. Not to mention that, with a new system, you really can't have a hamburger with both mayo and ketchup, you have to choose one; and also, you can't apply the sauce of your (meaningful) choice to your food where you eat it, you have to go back to the McD's cash register or buy yourself a special expensive Sauce Applier, which, upon use, allows everyone around you to apply the sauce to their food as well.

What the fuck, Blizzard. What. The. Actual. Fuck. /facepalm

But if we want to go there, then sure. Making mount choice more meaningful /could/ help with character identity too.

Yeah, I bet if Blizzard removes the ability to use any mount of your choice and instead locks the choice between race/class/etc, you'd be one of first here to jump out of joy, because less is more, rejoice people, much choice, so diverse, yay!

[RobertoCarlos]

So you play suboptimally. That's the whole point.

Your character should NOT be the best at everything as you just instantly switch to be the best possible for the situation because you....went out of combat.

Playing sub optimally is not good for my OCD. And I'm sure theres a lot of gamers in the same boat as me.

[bewbew]

Yeah it is hard but not impossible (see vanilla or TBC as an example).

the reason were not seeing that anymore is mostly because wow 3.0 shifted the game from an utility based game (classes started being self sufficient, when before they relied on synergies) to a pseudo action based game.

I agree it's doable.

Coming from a PvP player, I'm actually amazed at how many cool, utility-based talents the PvP trees have, and many of the PvE ones too. Even for tanks.

If they used some of those PvE ones for Raids, that would be very fun.

The problem, however, is that Blizzard still is trapped into an old, failed model of "We must have enemies generic enough that a group of 20 guys with interrupts, dispels, heals and taunts can complete this raid", without the nuances of very class and spec specific abilities being relevant.

[Aggrophobic]

This is... Not what I wanted.
Respecing on the fly was one if the really nice things about the new talent system.

[bewbew]

Playing sub optimally is not good for my OCD. And I'm sure theres a lot of gamers in the same boat as me.

So you go through the effort and spend your gold and time to change back.

Your OCD is no reason for characters to have no identity and thus be, ultimately, devoid of choices.

[Deleted]

NEW TALENTS otherwise are pretty different if not "playstyle change" it is OK to "pay" a price (that is gold or consumable) to change your minmaxepeen spec for gain 0.4% dps on recount and yet be on the bottom of recount.

We're talking about more than 0.4 % DPS, for some classes the difference between some talents on some encounters can currently amount to tenth of thousand of DPS.

[Ehuehuecopter]

I cannot remember a single post that said "Please make respeccing free again but give talent changes a group-effort cost". But I'm sure you can find the retard that asked for that.

the people who wanted vanilla server, go check the threadS there and on offi forum.

[RobertoCarlos]

Explain how from a roleplaying perspective it suddenly makes sense that your character is able to do A, but not B, and when they go out of combat for a moment suddenly remember how to do B, but not A anymore?

That is basically what it comes down to. Some people /do/ like that RPG part of MMORPGs.

If you think putting barriers around changing your style of play in todays world of gaming is a positive thing for creating an RPG element then I strongly disagree. There are far more creative and funnier ways to add RPG elements to the game than more pointless barriers.

[RobertoCarlos]

So you go through the effort and spend your gold and time to change back.

Your OCD is no reason for characters to have no identity and thus be, ultimately, devoid of choices.

More time barriers to changing gameplay is not a creative or inventive rpg toolkit. I think they can do better. And should do better.

[Ehuehuecopter]

We're talking about more than 0.4 % DPS, for some classes the difference between some talents on some encounters can currently amount to tenth of thousand of DPS.

that is a core problem for some class design, eg retri, but isnt a problem of "respec" its a problem of class design

[Raiju]

If you think putting barriers around changing your style of play in todays world of gaming is a positive thing for creating an RPG element then I strongly disagree. There are far more creative and funnier ways to add RPG elements to the game than more pointless barriers.

Technically game design is entirely about limitations & barriers, once you get past initial concept.

[RobertoCarlos]

Technically game design is entirely about limitations & barriers, once you get past initial concept.

Well hope you have fun changing from city to city when you want to do different things in game. Tbh I don't think this change will actually stay.

It really is a pants on head crazy idea when the full playerbase realizes how much of an inconvenience this will be. And stupid.

[bewbew]

If you think putting barriers around changing your style of play in todays world of gaming is a positive thing for creating an RPG element then I strongly disagree. There are far more creative and funnier ways to add RPG elements to the game than more pointless barriers.

There is nothing pointless about it.

It's only through limitation that you can create the identity of anything in the game.

What makes a paladin different from a shaman? Limitations on what abilities they are allowed to use, races they're allowed to be, resources they are allowed to acess, specs they are allowed to choose, gear they're allowed to equip.

Then what makes a paladin different from another paladin? These very same criteria.

And then, what makes a paladin of one of the Paladin specs DIFFERENT from the other Paladins of the exact same spec?

As you can see, everything is about RESTRICTIONS.

[RobertoCarlos]

Technically game design is entirely about limitations & barriers, once you get past initial concept.

I dont know what you mean, game design is to make money and hopefully entertainment.

- - - Updated - - -

There is nothing pointless about it.

It's only through limitation that you can create the identity of anything in the game.

What makes a paladin different from a shaman? Limitations on what abilities they are allowed to use, races they're allowed to be, resources they are allowed to acess, specs they are allowed to choose, gear they're allowed to equip.

Then what makes a paladin different from another paladin? These very same criteria.

And then, what makes a paladin of one of the Paladin specs DIFFERENT from the other Paladins of the exact same spec?

As you can see, everything is about RESTRICTIONS.

You're looking at the glass half empty. Try looking at it half full.

[l33t]

It is just as idiotic as water strider mount restrictions were (even with the same idiotic watcher's rhetoric, by the way). And, I think it would last just as long.

I wonder how many more players Blizzard needs to lose, and how many more fails like this one must appear, for Blizzard to finally understand that "less is more" is a failed game design.

[RobertoCarlos]

But from a character identity point these things are very important. Either the lore or background of your character is that it knows how to do A, or it doesn't know how to do A.

Some people absolutely don't give a fuck about character identity and they are fine with their character being a fire mage one moment and a fury Warrior a moment later if it meant they'd have more gameplay fun. They'd be fine with their background story explaining they are a night elf and a moment later an orc instead, if it meant more lulz.

But some of us like RPGs, thus we like them making talent choices / respecs harder. Not that it's the optimal solution, but we're appreciative of Blizzard trying to focus back on such RPG elements such as character identity (a pet peeve since whatever changes happened after Vanilla) and class fantasy (identity).

Why do I need to go back to my class trainer to learn how to use shadowstep when I have used it millions of times and have defeated the lich king and archimonde with it. /micdrop