Upcoming talent change gutting

[deadman1]

I did. And it is annoying as fuck, but still something you do in environments that require optimal performance.
If you make it an expensive group-tome kind of thing though, you kinda take that away. Which is a plus in my book.

So what you are saying is "In legion guilds will preform sub optimally for the sake of convenience" and you are saying that with a straight face and actually saying it's a positive thing?

I now understand why we don't see eye to eye on this.

[Mafic]

Nobody says it's a crime. It just seems like bad design counter to the entire traditional idea of a talent system in the first place.

The problem is they have weak talents that are highly situational and highly niche. If they want talents to be meaningful, powerful and cause a large opportunity cost then they need to buff them across the board.

So, for example a Rogue that choose a passive run speed like hit and run but wants to switch to Grappling Hook to do quests in High Mountain is breaking the game how?

[Triskell]

holy freaking cow, you people will bitch about anything! Blizzard could remove the sub fee and start paying players to play their games, and you people would be right here bitching about "i don't want free money!"

get a fucking life, will ya?

The gold charged for respec'ing wasn't even noticeable. It was such a small amount, there really wasn't any point to it. On top of that, why should we be given a system to switch specs as we need, but be punished for it? Hardly any other mmos have restrictions on respec'ing and switching like wow does. There's just no reason for it, and now they're finally doing away with it.

If you want to be a masochist and punish yourself for every little detail you get in a game, go play something else.

so much this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[deadman1]

Because switching talents between A and B and B and A on the spot, between pulling packs etc is very much part of the reality of the game right now. It might not be as drastic as being talent A:"able to teleport from mob pack to mob pack" and talent B: "deal 300% increased damage to mobs", but it's leaning towards that in some cases.

Nope sorry, switching between a movement talent and a dps talent isn't a reality of anything nor has it ever been.

It's not useful conversation because it's not based in reality.

[threads]

all this bullshit cause 1 guy didnt want to pay 70g for a respec lol

[Mehrunes]

The gold charged for respec'ing wasn't even noticeable. It was such a small amount, there really wasn't any point to it. On top of that, why should we be given a system to switch specs as we need, but be punished for it? Hardly any other MMOs have restrictions on respec'ing and switching like WoW does. There's just no reason for it, and now they're finally doing away with it.

If you want to be a masochist and punish yourself for every little detail you get in a game, go play something else.

Who exactly is complaining about the change to spec changing? The discussion is about the talent changing. Where the part in bold applies. I get a feeling that you consider such design bad since you used it as an argument for removing cockblocks on spec swapping, so it won't be a stretch to assume you can at least understand why people would see cockblocks on talent swapping the same way.

[Dizzeeyooo]

I did. And it is annoying as fuck, but still something you do in environments that require optimal performance.

killing trash in dungeons/raids requires 100% optimal performance?

so in HFC, vs solo trash mobs you are respeccing to 100% single target talents, and then vs trash packs of 4+ mobs, you are respeccing to aoe talents?

before every single trash pack?

my god no wonder you are so keen for this change to happen rofl

[Mafic]

all this bullshit cause 1 guy didnt want to pay 70g for a respec lol

Blizz is creating problems that never existed in the first place. Blizz owns this.

[deadman1]

Holy freaking cow, you people will bitch about anything! Blizzard could remove the sub fee and start PAYING players to play their games, and you people would be right here bitching about "I don't want free money!"

I hate this train of logic. It's nonsensical. It's not based in reality. Those aren't the same people bitching about opposing things that is painfully obvious.

It's like the "first you bitched about not flying now you are bitching about flying" THOSE ARE'NT THE SAME PEOPLE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Get a fucking life, will ya?

"Personal insults lead to positive civil discourse" - No one ever.

[Mafic]

Being able to switch back and forth easily '''breaks''' the game.

It should be a choice when doing an activity:
Either able to run faster, or grappling hook. Not swapping everytime you need a swap while you're doing the same quest.

We will have to agree to disagree, because MoP started off with talents that were really powreful and had glyphs that could change many talents.

Legion now has talent system that has been pruned to death and are the majority of weak passives with major glyphs gone. Anytime player choice is taken away it is a step back as that is what Legion is doing. The impact this will have on PVP is also very substantial as many players switch from mobility to defensive (eg Legion Warlocks must make that choice now).

[l33t]

Being able to switch back and forth easily '''breaks''' the game.

It should be a choice before doing an activity:
Either able to run faster, or grappling hook. Not swapping everytime you need a swap while you're doing the same quest.

Says who? I clearly see no point in talents if you can't use them to not be suboptimal in every possible situation.

[Mehrunes]

Not even the most hardcore of raidguilds will be putting down "expensive tomes" between every new pack / mob or obstacle in a raiddungeon.

They will still do it for each boss or even big pack, i.e. what the current talent system was designed around in the first place. So it changes fuck all in terms of the general design and only removes player freedom for those who used it even more often. Again, brilliant and totally introduces all the gameplays.

[deadman1]

Says who? I clearly see no point in talents if you can't use them to not be suboptimal in every possible situation.

Blizzard said it, therefore it's law.

[OGXanos]

I bet that gold cost is looking very appealing right now

It actually is. I prefer it vs not being able to talent swap on the fly. I'm not going to regularly switch them yet again. I'll pick whatever gives me the most benefit in most situations an never flip. Again.

Actually how bout this, since talents are as many call now 'the illusion of choice' lets give everyone everything and scrap the talent system altogether! Might even be able to fill a whole 2 bars with abilities again after that!

[Mafic]

Being able to switch back and forth easily '''breaks''' the game.

It should be a choice before doing an activity:
Either able to run faster, or grappling hook. Not swapping everytime you need a swap while you're doing the same quest.

Imposing a harsh opportunity cost to mask weak talents and make doing things out in the world pointless only reinforces players to not bother doing world content.

[Jessicka]

I bet that gold cost is looking very appealing right now

Not really, the gold cost was about swapping specs, which is now free and can be done anywhere, anywhen. The new costs are about swapping talents which used to be able to be done free (with the endless supply of free tomes from missions) anywhere, anywhen; but now you have to go back to town or an inn, or have an associated reagent cost with doing.

The costs shifted. And they shifted to the talent calculator that actually lets you play a spec 'properly' for an encounter irrespective of role, while the old swapping spec rather than talents saw much less use since mostly the other specs meant a change of role; or another spec was one you were less proficient or skilled at, or just found less enjoyable.

I think they really need to assess what they actually want from Talents; because clearly switching between different kinds of utility or damage type (ST Vs AoE for example) is not about 'playstyle' and certainly nothing to do with "choice" or "character" but simple usefulness which is always going to be very clear cut and what gives cause to the exact issues they describe. That's why I don't think this is the right fix, because the nature of the Talents doesn't change the problem they create in respect to the need and desire for switching every 3 minutes.

[Deleted]

All i see i a casual kid complaining about doing an RPG thing in a mmoRPG .

Now on a more serious note, this is a nice breeze compared to other mmo's, if this is something that will make you not play the game, the mmorpg field is not for you my friend. If you look at the other mmorpg games where RNG is the core element of gameplay like BDO or they are litteraly not giving a hoot about PvP unlike now in legion...yea just suck it up and see you at launch.

[Mehrunes]

It doesn't matter. It's perhaps at best an exaggurated example to explain the flaws of the current system.

If it's something you pulled out of your ass to point out a problem that doesn't even exist and has no application or relevance to anything actually in the game, then yes, it doesn't matter. But for completely different reasons that you think.

[deadman1]

Not even the most hardcore of raidguilds will be putting down "expensive tomes" between every new pack / mob or obstacle in a raiddungeon.

Almost no one switched talents/specs on trash unless it was a very difficult pack.

The main reason to switch talents was for bosses.

[deadman1]

If you want to be able to grapple and have run speed at the same time, if you want to be able to do both while doing the same quest, then Blizzard should just remove the talent system and give you both abilities instead...

... but that isn't the point of a talent system.

You can't have both at the same time, but what if I want to switch between quests? Why is that bad?