Spoilers: Who is right? Captain America or Iron Man?

[Darkeon]

While both sides had legitimate reasons and I can see where they'd be coming from... gonna have to side with #TeamIronman.

[Mihalik]

Iron Man.

There's no way we'd let vigilantes with super powers do whatever they want and not hold them accountable.

Their Super Power? The US Military and the US economy.

Held accountable? Not.

[Deleted]

Their Super Power? The US Military and the US economy.

Held accountable? Not.

They're elected leaders, not vigilantes though :P.

[Deleted]

Both were. I expected to be on Tonys Team (even tho Cap is my favorite character - yes, I am that boring).

Spoilers aside I did not feel strongly to either side while watching the movie. It balances out both standpoints quite well. In combination with being a very good movie overall - I enjoyed my time with it.

[Ratyrel]

I thought the petty nature of the charges advanced against the avengers was quite a good commentary upon our times. This kind of lack of perspective would be exactly what would happen nowadays, and it was exacerbated by the existing faultline between Tony and the others; Tony basically blackmailed everyone else onto his side and he paid the price in that the conflict crippled his friend.

The Avengers saved the world from complete destruction twice. The Wakandans died because they were protecting it from future destruction. Small interest groups like the Wakandans making a big deal out of completely negligible, though of course painful, collateral damage is a core issue of world politics and I thought the film addressed that very well and painted a scenario for the fallout it can cause, using the Avengers as a metaphor for world unity in the face of far more important matters.

I guess that makes me Team Cap. There is no accountability for the greatest or the worst. That has always been so. Accountability procedures exist to organise our world. The Avengers are a metaphor for forces far beyond that kind of thing.

[rogueMatthias]

If all the Avengers were super powered I think it'd be a much deeper discussion.

As it stands, most of them are just using tech supplied to them.

Effectively they're a small privately funded and equipped militia, who operate in whatever country they deem fit with no regards of borders, and get away with it just because of their celebrity status and super-rich connections. They're paid mercenaries who carry out their "missions" based ENTIRELY on what Cap does or doesn't see as the "right" thing to do; dependent entirely on the belief in his moral infallibility.

Obviously in a real world that would be a HORRENDOUSLY bad idea.

Already, if you look at Lagos, are you really telling me that there weren't bigger issues worldwide that they could have dealt with instead of Crossbones robbing a police station? (their original belief). You really think that whole mission wasn't at least part a personal vendetta of Cap's against Crossbones? The entire of AOU was just dealing with the repercussions of Starks unchecked actions to make the world a better place.

[Deleted]

Captain America

The reason being that laws that cant be enforced shouldnt exist. Obviously "mere mortals" cant really control or hold people with superpowers accountable anyway, at least not without have some really OP weapons (which would make having superheroes kinda pointless anyway).

So such laws, if superheroes were real, would only serve to turn more of the grayer ones into super villains instead. Like ok, I tried to do that good thing that one time.. but whoops, I destroyed $20mil worth of property doing so and nope, Im not going to jail cause what are those lame bitches gonna do anyway? And while there, they might as well commit more crimes cause theyre wanted anyway.

[Sylreick]

That is what you get with resisting arrest on such a scale.
They could have explained all this to a judge.

Except for that guy who used those keywords to unhinge the winter soldier to get info and cause havoc, turning the situation into a "kill on sight" scenario. Kinda left Captain with no choice but to go rogue, if he didn't want his friend to die.

[Shadowferal]

They're elected leaders, not vigilantes though :P.

I disagree.

But I'm in the wrong forum to continue that line of thought.

This "Accords" thing was a bad idea anyway, since it's only is selectively enforced.

[ItachiZaku]

Black Panther saw Bucky as a victim...even though he killed his beloved father, he was able to see clearly after hearing everything and judging as a wise king would do. Unlike IM, who allowed himself to be manipulated.
#TeamBlackPanther

Oh, not me. If I'm BP, I'm torturing the shit out of him for eternity. Let them come!

[Shadowferal]

Oh, not me. If I'm BP, I'm torturing the shit out of him for eternity. Let them come!

Then you wouldn't be a wise king.
More like the Red Skull.

[ItachiZaku]

Then you wouldn't be a wise king.
More like the Red Skull.

My favorite "super hero" has been Magneto. I claim not to be a wise king, but a wise king will know my name (if, you know, i had super powers).

[Faltemer]

It's been awhile since I saw the film but weren't the Avengers and I think the scientist chick really the only ones who knew about who made Ultron anyways? So unless Tony went out and issued a My Bad why would they be blamed in the first place.

They were blamed simply because they were around when Ultron was causing mayhem, which is even weaker point since 2 of the Avengers literally created him.

[Florida Man]

Sadly yes. A shame; if people in super-powered universes had actually taken the time to be rational and compromise, the vast majority of these plots would've been avoided, but rule of drama kicks in so never mind!

Not to mention subversively brainwashing the audience into thinking everything HAS to be black and white. See: atheism vs religion, democrats vs republicans, medical industry vs alternative medicine, it goes on and on. It's always blank vs blank, and the sheep can't critically think to see the middle ground where peace and compromise can always be achieved.

Hollywood: working as intended.

[RampageBW1]

Black Panther saw Bucky as a victim...even though he killed his beloved father, he was able to see clearly after hearing everything and judging as a wise king would do. Unlike IM, who allowed himself to be manipulated.
#TeamBlackPanther

Except Bucky didn't really kill BP's father, as he was framed by Zemo.

That's a little bit bullshit. That's saying there are/were no nazi war criminals, because they were all scared of Hitler, so it was alright. Bucky should fry for his crimes. #TeamIronman

Well, if we're going to prosecute people who've been mind controlled, when do we arrest Hawkeye for all the shit Loki made him do?

[ItachiZaku]

Well, if we're going to prosecute people who've been mind controlled, when do we arrest Hawkeye for all the shit Loki made him do?

He was forced into retirement, rather than arrested due to his previously stellar performance reviews.

[RampageBW1]

He was forced into retirement, rather than arrested due to his previously stellar performance reviews.

lol Well if you say so.

Except I believe he retired because he thought Quicksilver dying to save him was just a bit too embarrassing (and stupid, as I believe Quicksilver could have survive if he didn't just stop after pushing Hawkeye to safety).

[klogaroth]

Captain America's side kinda feels a bit like if the US had actually found WMDs in Iraq. Which they would have done so by complete accident.

Him uncovering the conspiracy from the doctor to get to Bucky was complete blind luck that occurred because he wanted to save his friend. He acted first and found reasons to legitimise his actions afterwards. There was no indication whatsoever from him that he suspected foul play until far too late for him to claim that was the reason behind what he did.

It's one rule for him and his mates and another for everyone else. Crony justice.

He's perfectly happy for his mates to go around killing other people without trial on a similar basis to the situations where law enforcement or the military are allowed to use lethal force. If he were leading a strike team against someone else with Bucky's power he personally would possibly try to bring him in, but he certainly wouldn't be all that concerned if they were killed in the fight.

[ati87]

I hate to say this but both sides are wrong....

Captain America is right when he says that he can't trust politicians or single individuals to do the right thing. IN real life we have the UN security council as example where the countries that have a veto right use their power to get away with bad shit (looking at you US and Russia).

In the movie world you have Shield sending airships out that could potentially kill everybody (what Hydria wanted btw), this was done on the orders of the council.

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ON a individual non political level

You saw Tony Stark create a monster (Ultron) and nobody really had any saying into this, if you had a sort of council he might have never created Ultron.

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So yea I I really hate both sides are wrong arguments but you can't go around that both sides almost destroyed the world by their stance.

Maybe just ask DC if they can license Batman, in 9 out of 10 universes he is the good guy you can't corrupt anyway.

[Varitok]

That's a little bit bullshit. That's saying there are/were no nazi war criminals, because they were all scared of Hitler, so it was alright. Bucky should fry for his crimes. #TeamIronman

Yeah but it wasn't fear driving bucky, it was literal brainwashing into being a soulless killing machine. He had literally no choice to stop it.