Upcoming talent change gutting

[Delimit]

Scribes just make the item. Anyone can use the item. I imagine you could find these items on the AH if your guild just has no scribes whatsoever.

That doesn't fix the issue. He stated that the typical player won't be carrying these around due to the costs involved, which means that it will likely have a very high minimum cost to make. (high value vendor item as part of recipe I would guess) You're never going to be able to properly balance that kind of cost for a basic function like changing a talent, because not everyone has the same amount of gold.

[Molis]

Great change, and I approve.

Please go get outraged about something that really matters.

[Neevs]

I am beyond baffled by this change.

Specs have now been designed to be so linear with talent choices. You cant AoE/Cleave if you take your ST talents, you cant ST if you take your cleave talents. That is how they designed it. Take away all your core abilities and shove them into talents and make you tailor to how you need to perform. Yes, it was a lot of tinkering between pulls, but that was the beauty of how it was now designed! Play the spec you want right?

Well now that I can't change between being useless for trash clearing and good at bosss.. or good at trash clearing and crap on boss... without some fucking regent.. do I have to spec out of my spec to one that has AoE talents? Is this what they wanted? instead of allowing me to play the spec I want like they designed it in the first place?

So fucking stupid

Guess I'll spec one spec for AoE, one for ST and pretend I'm still playing WoD. GG

Couldn't agree more.. I really liked the Idea you had to change between talents on a given fight.. choosing between AoE or ST forced you to make some choices, and After WoD/HFC i really took that change with open arms.. hated that i had to swap between Destro/aff depending on the boss.. So was really looking forward to the change to talents..

A completely welcome idea. Talents are not extra buttons to switch up after every encounter - the game is not all about competitive raiding after all.

come on.. You don't have to do "competitive raiding" for this change to matter...
I can't see why you wouldn't want to swap between talents in a raid/dungeon given that pretty much every specc I've seen/tried out in Alpha would make you choose talents for ST or AoE/cleave, while you'd be pretty significant worse/horrible at the other..
Making the whole "only for competive raiding" argument is just silly, it's not just people who're raiding competitive who'll want to change talents..

And while some argue it'll make Inscription valid again, given how much people would be changing talents that's just not a good choice for making it valid IMO...
People would be spending regants on swapping talents so often, that they'd be using a crazy amounts of that regant, or have to choose to be rather horrible on either AoE/cleave or ST in many given situations where the oppesite would be the obvious choice for that fight/situation..
And if you instead go back to your Order hall/town to respecc talents and then summon people back, is gonna be so time consuming between pulls/fights that you'll get less time to raid/do dungoens, and is gonna be insanely boring in the long run.. (can't really see this being a valid option)

[Ragnarocket]

Ah, I'm not sure about that yet but that would be a good way of doing it. Wouldn't mind it if that's how this worked.

A couple of clarifications, one of which will probably be a relief and the other likely less so: The Inscription consumable as currently planned would be something that anyone could drop, not a profession-requiring item like a Jeeves. But, in terms of the materials required, we're thinking of something that's more aimed at groups, and probably not the sort of thing an individual is likely to carry a stack of and use freely.

This is what Watcher said at any rate...

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That doesn't fix the issue. He stated that the typical player won't be carrying these around due to the costs involved, which means that it will likely have a very high minimum cost to make. (high value vendor item as part of recipe I would guess) You're never going to be able to properly balance that kind of cost for a basic function like changing a talent, because not everyone has the same amount of gold.

I didn't state this fixed the issue (I personally think people are making this molehill a mountain, but whatever). All I was doing was letting him know that what he thought wasn't valid based on what Watcher said. Argue the costs all you want...all I'm saying is that Scribes make the item, they aren't the only ones that can drop it in a raid environment.

But they've designed the talents to require this! you don't just dial it back now that you've got the core toolkit for specs all tied up in talents. That's the frustration point. It doesn't matter how easy it is to drop whatever the fuck the regent does before a boss fight... Its the point that they designed it to be changed, but now saying they dont want you changing..

Raid.. before boss fight.. thats fone thing...

what are you going to do for the 5 man....? "Hold up dont pull yet I need to.." boss is pulled.

Then fix the talent system. I posted an in-depth thought process about the restoration shaman talents (my main spec) and where I think this system is flawed. If you put all AoE talents on a single tier then you fix this issue. It no longer becomes "Do I pick the AoE option or the Single Target option?" it becomes "How do I prefer to do AoE?"

[Wildpantz]

This is a good change. It would suck having ro respec every pull for optimal setup if youre not doing that youre saying fuck you to your fellow group

[deadman1]

Great change, and I approve.

Please go get outraged about something that really matters.

There is a difference between dislike and outrage.

Also I'm glad you took the time to explain your great reasoning for enjoying this.

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This is a good change. It would suck having ro respec every pull for optimal setup if youre not doing that youre saying fuck you to your fellow group

What?

Those are conflicting statements ...

[Aggrophobic]

This is a good change. It would suck having ro respec every pull for optimal setup if youre not doing that youre saying fuck you to your fellow group

You will still need to respec every pull, it'll just cost you quite a bit of money.

[Kazgrel]

Looks like the #makeazerothvanillaagain campaign is breaking through.

I'll just stick to changing class at will with little to no penalty in FF14 (you incur a 30 second lockout on combat skills if you switch while outside of a town/rest area, but that's pretty much it).

[Ragnarocket]

What?

Those are conflicting statements ...

I believe he means it will be nice not to have to feel forced to swap for EVERY trash pull just to put out slightly more DPS.

At least I think so...

[Mic_128]

Raid.. before boss fight.. thats fone thing...

what are you going to do for the 5 man....? "Hold up dont pull yet I need to.." boss is pulled.

...you don't need to change talents for 5 man trash. :/

[deadman1]

...you don't need to change talents for 5 man trash. :/

He didn't say trash he specifically said "boss"

Also with the new challenge modes ... you may need to change.

[Ragnarocket]

...you don't need to change talents for 5 man trash. :/

Dude, you can't be suboptimal. That's just insanity.

Edit: Challenge modes are a totally different story. True. You'd more than likely want to swap on a boss - boss basis.

[Aggrophobic]

...you don't need to change talents for 5 man trash. :/

If the tuning stays the way it is now, you really do have to change talents, even between different packs of trash.

[deadman1]

Dude, you can't be suboptimal. That's just insanity.

He said boss, not trash.

[Neversage]

I'm not sure how I feel about this change. I get what they are trying to do, and part of me thinks that it will help bring a sort of vanilla feel back to some things, but at the same time another part of me groans at the potential results of hearthing and resummoning all the time between pulls or fights. It's like this idea is a step toward something good, but until it actually gets to the good, it sucks.

Trivializing talent choices is a problem, but I'm not sure this is the best solution.

[Ragnarocket]

He said boss, not trash.

In challenge mode yes, but do you really think you'd need to swap to the 1% extra build from boss to boss in normal and heroic? Challenge mode will have lots of extra stuff I'll agree to that.

[deadman1]

I'm not sure how I feel about this change. I get what they are trying to do, and part of me thinks that it will help bring a sort of vanilla feel back to some things, but at the same time another part of me groans at the potential results of hearthing and resummoning all the time between pulls or fights. It's like this idea is a step toward something good, but until it actually gets to the good, it sucks.

In all fairness you don't have to hearth every time, you can use the inscription item.

Trivializing talent choices is a problem, but I'm not sure this is the best solution.

Why is it a problem all of a sudden? It hasn't been for like half of WoWs lifespan.

[Artunias]

Or you know, they could design classes/talents properly so you don't feel like you constantly have to swap just to be effective at the game.

Talents that enhance, rather than enable entire aspects of the class? There's a novel fucking thought.

[deadman1]

In challenge mode yes,

Challenge modes are still 5 mans, if the materials price is tuned to 10+ people it may be too expensive for 5 mans who knows.

Either way the point of my post is to point out that he said boss and not trash since that was what your "witty joke" was about.

but do you really think you'd need to swap to the 1% extra build from boss to boss in normal and heroic? Challenge mode will have lots of extra stuff I'll agree to that.

Again there is the "needing to do something" vs the "freedom to do something"

I mean I still change talents when I run HCs in WoD because I enjoy having better talents even though the stuff is trivial.

Why does me switching to living bomb on certain fights ruin the game for you?

[Delimit]

Or you know, they could design classes/talents properly so you don't feel like you constantly have to swap just to be effective at the game.

Talents that enhance, rather than enable entire aspects of the class? There's a novel fucking thought.

Nope, it's far more fun to design talents that practically force you to swap between them to be effective against packs/single target/bosses/different defensives, while simultaneously sticking it to you with gold cost.