Upcoming talent change gutting

[Ragnarocket]

lol what a dumb way of thinking.

the point of talents is versatility. not playing subpar and shitty.

Maybe, but if you're just going to always pick the most optimal setup for every fight (not just bosses but trash too) then what is the point of the system? Why not just give everyone all the abilities in the talent set up? There's no reason to have a talent system if it is meaningless.

[Tharkkun]

there's no choice when it's literally single target vs aoe talents.

nobody wants to be the retard using aoe talents on a ST boss.

That wasn't the original design of the talent system. But elitist players would hearth/portal back to town for a respec for every fight. So Blizzard caved in MOP when they redesigned the talents. We were fine with it for Vanilla + 3 expansions. Heck, we had single spec for 2 or 3 expansions. I forget when we got dual spec.

So they gave us tomes in MOP. Now it seems like Blizzard is unhappy with that choice and they want to go back but at the same time they are offering you full access to all your specialization trees. But players want it all now. They cry about LFR and easy dungeons because they remove barriers to gameplay and then get mad when Blizzard adds new barriers. They can't win.

[Triskell]

lol what a dumb way of thinking.

the point of talents is versatility. not playing subpar and shitty.

Actually you are so wrong. The point of talents is to make choices.......you have 2 specs. You pick talents for the 2 specs and away you go. You know like it used to be.

If you play subpar and shitty based upon the talents you choose that is your problem. Game design is that you make a choice and go with it.

There is WAY TO much time being spent on this non-issue. You people will complain about EVERYTHING!!!!

[Adramalech]

Maybe, but if you're just going to always pick the most optimal setup for every fight (not just bosses but trash too) then what is the point of the system? Why not just give everyone all the abilities in the talent set up? There's no reason to have a talent system if it is meaningless.

Because even though you can always adap, you still can't be good at everything at the same time. If you pick a ST talent, you won't have the alternatives. You sre still giving something up.

Where did this idea that being able to adapt talents to the situation makes us good at everything at once...

OT: fuck typing on a phone.

[Tharkkun]

I am beyond baffled by this change.

Specs have now been designed to be so linear with talent choices. You cant AoE/Cleave if you take your ST talents, you cant ST if you take your cleave talents. That is how they designed it. Take away all your core abilities and shove them into talents and make you tailor to how you need to perform. Yes, it was a lot of tinkering between pulls, but that was the beauty of how it was now designed! Play the spec you want right?

Well now that I can't change between being useless for trash clearing and good at bosss.. or good at trash clearing and crap on boss... without some fucking regent.. do I have to spec out of my spec to one that has AoE talents? Is this what they wanted? instead of allowing me to play the spec I want like they designed it in the first place?

So fucking stupid

Guess I'll spec one spec for AoE, one for ST and pretend I'm still playing WoD. GG

That's good and all but with all your specs open there's no doubling up on 1 specialization now. You get your 3 specs or 4 if you're a druid. You can't choose 3 BM specs (as an example) now if I recall my 15 minutes in beta.

[kamuimac]

You have to chose which talents you use at any given moment.

good so instead pointles annoying stupid change they should give us convinince tools like ability to save talent builds and then swap them while using 1 button to our own premade talent settings - this actully would be great addition.

- - - Updated - - -

That wasn't the original design of the talent system. But elitist players would hearth/portal back to town for a respec for every fight. So Blizzard caved in MOP when they redesigned the talents. We were fine with it for Vanilla + 3 expansions. Heck, we had single spec for 2 or 3 expansions. I forget when we got dual spec.

So they gave us tomes in MOP. Now it seems like Blizzard is unhappy with that choice and they want to go back but at the same time they are offering you full access to all your specialization trees. But players want it all now. They cry about LFR and easy dungeons because they remove barriers to gameplay and then get mad when Blizzard adds new barriers. They can't win.

well duh - but what hs been proven by the whole war for flying blizzard cannot reverse the convinience changes they made else they will loose ton of customers - same will be with talent changes - they will eventually cave in and made no changes only keep current model

[Dianthe]

That wasn't the original design of the talent system. But elitist players would hearth/portal back to town for a respec for every fight. So Blizzard caved in MOP when they redesigned the talents. We were fine with it for Vanilla + 3 expansions. Heck, we had single spec for 2 or 3 expansions. I forget when we got dual spec.

So they gave us tomes in MOP. Now it seems like Blizzard is unhappy with that choice and they want to go back but at the same time they are offering you full access to all your specialization trees. But players want it all now. They cry about LFR and easy dungeons because they remove barriers to gameplay and then get mad when Blizzard adds new barriers. They can't win.

No, actually they changed the talent system because it was a boring useless part of the game. You chose a class, you had a cookie-cutter talent tree that you specced in, and that was the end of it. There was no choice, no thought, no adaptability. We were not "fine with it for Vanilla + 3 expansions" - we did not give a damn or a second thought about it for all that time. And that was the issue.

And frankly - I think people have a right to be mad. It has nothing to do with "wanting it all". Blizzard has built a talent system that simply does not work with the crap they are trying to pull off. They are adding something that is not beneficial in ANY way. It doesn't make you think harder about your talents at all. I will still spec into Divine Star rather than Halo for a given fight if that is the best spell to use. The only thing they are adding is a time sink, and an unnecessary inconvenience. They are not fixing the system - they are just adding a random hoop to jump through.

If they actually wanted a "meaningful" talent system they should have started thinking about it when they began developing Legion, and made some meaningful changes to the talents themselves, and how they work to reach that goal.

There are few things I dislike more than half assed changes like this, with no thought behind it whatsoever.

[Tharkkun]

People enjoy different things, don't resort to petty insults just because someone likes something different than you. It's unbecoming.

The argument is quite petty in itself. I don't see myself respecing to Beastmastery as a hunter for trash and back to Marksmen for bosses. That's a pain and a waste of time.

[Narwal]

When you go back to a resting place to change talents, the change should take days. One doesn't simply learn a new combat move in an instant. It takes time to master the ability.

[nazrakin]

Which is a big portion of min/maxing your performance, which many people enjoy. Not everyone is picking the proper talents for each fight, and sometimes you need to be able to adapt because of a shortcoming in the raid.

Baking things into baseline won't remove dev time, because they still have to design the abilities. Those abilities are a big part of the carrot that gets rolled out for every expansion. One of the carrots for Legion was the ability to change to those talents when necessary without the hassle of tomes, they've now backtracked and want to make it more difficult.

Min/maxing is completely superficial when there is right and wrong way to build your class. Many folks here are suggesting that their specs are deficient without the ability to swap to the "proper talent" because they are balanced around having those AE talents for ae centric encounters and the single target talents for single target encounters. Real min/maxing exists above expectation, so if the game expects me to have a certain talent set up then there's just not much point in having a system where I'm given choices. Having a single baseline design would definitely make balancing the classes a lot more straight forward and you wouldn't have to support 21 "optional" talents for each spec. You create a few that make sense and roll those out every expansion.

I do agree that the proposed change is a terrible idea because it wont actually accomplish anything. They need to fully commit to a system of permanence with extremely limited talent swapping or they need to embrace the hotswapping and just give me a Call of Duty style loadouts so that we can at least minimize the tedium of switching every 10minutes.

[deadman1]

The argument is quite petty in itself. I don't see myself respecing to Beastmastery as a hunter for trash and back to Marksmen for bosses. That's a pain and a waste of time.

It's not switching specs ... it's switching talents. Either way, people do switch specs and talents on a boss by boss basis, "i don't see myself doing x" isn't a valid or valuable statement, you do not represent the progression raiding community or the CM community.

Try not to comment on things if you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

[Deleted]

There should never even have been a dual spec feature. You pick your spec and talents once and that is it. Any changes you want, you need to go to your trainer and pay up. This is supposed to be a MMORPG not an action hack and slash.

[Tharkkun]

It's not switching specs ... it's switching talents. Either way, people do switch specs and talents on a boss by boss basis, "i don't see myself doing x" isn't a valid or valuable statement, you do not represent the progression raiding community or the CM community.

Try not to comment on things if you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Same damn thing as switching a talent for aoe.

[deadman1]

There should never even have been a dual spec feature. You pick your spec and talents once and that is it. Any changes you want, you need to go to your trainer and pay up. This is supposed to be a MMORPG not an action hack and slash.

Funnily enough, arbitrary timesinks do not in fact change the combat system of the game. Whoda thunk.

- - - Updated - - -

Same damn thing as switching a talent for aoe.

No it's not the same, switching between bladestorm and bloodbath is not the same as switching from fury to arms.

Also people DO in fact switch between specs for different bosses. A lot of people do. At least other people in this thread that disagree with me a honest and admit that people switch specs and talents.

[Krom2040]

There should never even have been a dual spec feature. You pick your spec and talents once and that is it. Any changes you want, you need to go to your trainer and pay up. This is supposed to be a MMORPG not an action hack and slash.

Strong work backing up your point of view.

[Sorrowseer]

'We felt this would enhance the RPG feeling.'

...

Such rp-ing...

[Deleted]

They should just remove this boring profession(Inscription) and be done with it.

[thrill]

The argument is quite petty in itself. I don't see myself respecing to Beastmastery as a hunter for trash and back to Marksmen for bosses. That's a pain and a waste of time.

That's not a good example, MM has fine AoE, it just isn't as good as BM.

Look at a spec like a affliction, you might as well afk on trash if you aren't going to swap talents for cataclysm (or sow the seeds+ phantom singularity in legion) or swap specs, because affliction baseline contributes virtually nothing on low health mobs.

[Florena]

So what's really changing in practice here? Won't people just stockpile the new books so they can pop a book and swap talents like that? Or are these scribe books going to require significant resources and be too expensive for individual uses like that? If the books are cheap to make it'll just be a slightly less convenient alternative to the vendor tomes which seems pointless. It'll all depend on how much the tomes go for I guess.

[Beefkow]

Oh wah wah!!!! We actually have to visit our class trainers for once!