Upcoming talent change gutting

[deadman1]

So what's really changing in practice here? Won't people just stockpile the new books so they can pop a book and swap talents like that? Or are these scribe books going to require significant resources and be too expensive for individual uses like that? If the books are cheap to make it'll just be a slightly less convenient alternative to the vendor tomes which seems pointless. It'll all depend on how much the tomes go for I guess.

The new scribe thing is an object you place on the ground (like a campfire) that will allow everyone in a certain range to respec. They are tuned to be used in group activities meaning they will be significantly more expensive.

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Oh wah wah!!!! We actually have to visit our class trainers for once!

Common thread of people that like this change, a lot of them throw insults out instead of making civil comments.

"don't pull the raid boss I have to pop back to dalaran to respec for this fight can you 29 other people just wait for me"

[bledgor]

Oh no, please stop, the sky is FALLING!!!!

Whatever, instead of tomes you have whatever the new item is. Honestly wont affect me much, as I will probably still run one spec for AoE fights (I now use for trash) and one for cleave/single target (now my boss spec). Sounds fine to me.

[Gevoth]

Good change. Not a perfect solution, but a much better option than continuing with the switch every pull nonsense.

Talent choice should be something other than a toggle to click before each pull. Talents that are switched on a pull by pull basis aren't choices, they are clunky game design. They aren't a specialization, they are just a temporary limitation.

That said... I'd prefer talents not add buttons. Meaning you should have your full toolkit. And then you should be choosing talents that alter your spells for better AE, ST, CC, damage reduction, healing, support, or a hybrid of those.

The "choice" to switch talents every pull that is being made on the beta currently should be the choice of which skills to use not which skills to take.

[thrill]

Oh no, please stop, the sky is FALLING!!!!

Whatever, instead of tomes you have whatever the new item is. Honestly wont affect me much, as I will probably still run one spec for AoE fights (I now use for trash) and one for cleave/single target (now my boss spec). Sounds fine to me.

You're going to grind out a separate artifact for AoE pulls? You can't have two of the same spec anymore.

[deadman1]

Oh no, please stop, the sky is FALLING!!!!

Demeaning everyone that doesn't agree with you. #useful

Whatever, instead of tomes you have whatever the new item is.

Except unlike the tomes they won't be available from vendors and will cost expensive materials because they are meant for raiding groups not individual people.

Honestly wont affect me much, as I will probably still run one spec for AoE fights (I now use for trash) and one for cleave/single target (now my boss spec). Sounds fine to me.

It's not to change specs it's to change talents ...

Another person that blindly agreed with the change without actually knowing what they were agreeing with.

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Good change. Not a perfect solution, but a much better option than continuing with the switch every pull nonsense.

Talent choice should be something other than a toggle to click before each pull. Talents that are switched on a pull by pull basis aren't choices, they are clunky game design. They aren't a specialization, they are just a temporary limitation.

That said... I'd prefer talents not add buttons. Meaning you should have your full toolkit. And then you should be choosing talents that alter your spells for better AE, ST, CC, damage reduction, healing, support, or a hybrid of those.

The "choice" to switch talents every pull that is being made on the beta currently should be the choice of which skills to use not which skills to take.

The thing is, it isn't going to stop people from switching every pull, it's just going to make switching every pull slightly more annoying and costly.

I don't understand why people think that people are not going to switch just because it's annoying.

[JustRob]

This is fucking bullshit. Why the hell is this necessary? Things like this make me wanna cancel my pre-order.

[Daffan]

I don't really like the idea of freely changing talents every 5 seconds.

buuuuuut. I'm not sold on their idea either.

[sykoex]

I think the problem stems from how insanely difficult and competitive WoW is compared to other RPGs. Like in Skyrim it's okay to pick any random build just because you think it's fun and still make it through the game.

[Arenis]

I don't really mind it, but I wonder how it will work out with those "world-quests" or something, where you group up for the objective. People can't quickly change roles if they need a tank or healer that way.

[deadman1]

I don't really mind it, but I wonder how it will work out with those "world-quests" or something, where you group up for the objective. People can't quickly change roles if they need a tank or healer that way.

You can freely switch specs, you can't freely switch talents.

[Dhrizzle]

I don't really mind it, but I wonder how it will work out with those "world-quests" or something, where you group up for the objective. People can't quickly change roles if they need a tank or healer that way.

Changing specialisation (eg. prot/holy/ret paladin) is (under this system) free and can be done anywhere out of combat. The tiers of talents that let you optimise your specialisation (eg. single target or AoE optimised ret paladin) are locked unless you're in a safe/rested zone or within range of the proposed item.

[Delimit]

You can freely switch specs, you can't freely switch talents.

But you won't necessarily have the proper talents for the job.

[Grimreaper]

I've concluded argueing this is pointless, some people have no grasp on game design or the idea of Talent System being a CHOICE that is supposed to be, indeed, restrictive - Pick THIS out of these, you can't have it all.

Spoiled brats.

As been said a million times here already, we will still be switching talents on a per boss basis like we always have done. This change does nothing besides putting a inconvinience timer on talent switching.

You want talent switching to be even more restrictive? More ways to keep us from switching talents whenever we feel like it? Then we'll just have alts or people on standby to hop in instead.

No matter how difficult they are gonna make talent/spec switching, it serves NO purpose besides holding up the raid for a couple of minutes. None whatsoever.

[purebalance]

This is 1 minor step forward with about 500 steps back...

Not even remotely. All steps forward. The only one with backwards thinking is people who think they should be able to just swap on the fly.

[Gevoth]

The thing is, it isn't going to stop people from switching every pull, it's just going to make switching every pull slightly more annoying and costly.

I don't understand why people think that people are not going to switch just because it's annoying.

People will not wait for Timmy to switch talents so that his numbers will be a little better on the next pull. They will keep clearing and he will hang back and cry about combat not dropping so that he can switch. Meanwhile his damage is shit because he spends more time crying than killing mobs.

People will build specs that are strong in both AE and ST situations. The most common switches will happen in raiding guilds when a boss either has a many or zero adds.

Do what you like I plan on choosing talents that work well in both situations rather than going full tilt back and forth for that bleeding edge that so rarely matters. I also don't plan on playing with players who will need set up and sit around a campfire once a minute for 2% more dps. Having friends allows me that choice.

The solution to players who will still switch talents every pull even in the most trivial of situations is to make the mats for the consumable a serious grind. If they still do it constantly make it a long annoying cast to put down. If they still do it every damn pull it sucks to be them.

[deadman1]

But you won't necessarily have the proper talents for the job.

Sure potentially, I'm just saying switching between arms and prot isn't going to cost anything and you don't have to be in a rest area.

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People will not wait for Timmy to switch talents so that his numbers will be a little better on the next pull. They will keep clearing and he will hang back and cry about combat not dropping so that he can switch. Meanwhile his damage is shit because he spends more time crying than killing mobs.

People will build specs that are strong in both AE and ST situations. The most common switches will happen in raiding guilds when a boss either has a many or zero adds.

Do what you like I plan on choosing talents that work well in both situations rather than going full tilt back and forth for that bleeding edge that so rarely matters. I also don't plan on playing with players who will need set up and sit around a campfire once a minute for 2% more dps. Having friends allows me that choice.

The solution to players who will still switch talents every pull even in the most trivial of situations is to make the mats for the consumable a serious grind. If they still do it constantly make it a long annoying cast to put down. If they still do it every damn pull it sucks to be them.

If you think high end raiders don't switch talents for bosses you are misinformed.

ST spells on an AoE fight aren't small number losses they are large% losses.

[Elkas]

It feels like Blizzard went full retard with this change. Holy fucking shit, penalizing talent swapping almost more than spec swapping after basically designing classes around talent swapping.

I'm seriously at a loss for words.

[deadman1]

It actually /is/ an important factor.

I'm a top-end mythic raider, I've been 13/13M for well far over half a year now and because of it earned my alpha (and beta) invite to participate in the raidtesting.

Citation needed

But even for me, someone that hasn't roleplayed (the kind where you type paragraph long emotes and stories) ever in WoW, it has always been an important factor to feel some semblance of character identity. The current talent system just doesn't have much of that, with talent choices being a bit more meaningful (in combination with artifact weapons being akin to Path of the Titans, taking ages to level up at end-game) I actually feel satisfied, finally, for the first time since Vanilla, that they're adding some of it back again. Satisfied they are putting some of that RPG I've been missing a lot back into the MMORPG.

Then add it to the RP servers.

It doesn't stop people from switching talents, nor will it, it's simply a arbitrary timesink.

It will never achieve the goal you are proposing, so what is the actual point of it?

[Dhrizzle]

But you won't necessarily have the proper talents for the job.

In open world or LFR content I'm guessing it won't be too important. In organised raiding I'd hope the cost won't be too restrictive.

[Grimreaper]

People will not wait for Timmy to switch talents so that his numbers will be a little better on the next pull.

Yes, they will. Stop talking nonsense.

They will keep clearing and he will hang back and cry about combat not dropping so that he can switch. Meanwhile his damage is shit because he spends more time crying than killing mobs.

Not gonna happen, unless you're doing LFR.

People will build specs that are strong in both AE and ST situations.

Nope. I'm guessing you dont actually play this game.

The most common switches will happen in raiding guilds when a boss either has a many or zero adds.

It's going to be more than just switching from AOE to ST.

Do what you like I plan on choosing talents that work well in both situations

Does not exist. Or do you still put out cookies for santa?

rather than going full tilt back and forth for that bleeding edge that so rarely matters. I also don't plan on playing with players who will need set up and sit around a campfire once a minute for 2% more dps. Having friends allows me that choice.

With current balancing on beta it's not going to be 2%. It's going to be 200%. Shit all over your friends all you like, i for one wont be doing that.

The solution to players who will still switch talents every pull even in the most trivial of situations is to make the mats for the consumable a serious grind. If they still do it constantly make it a long annoying cast to put down. If they still do it every damn pull it sucks to be them.

Regardless of how 'hard' and annoying they make it, it's not going to change a damn thing. Ever. You are going to sit on your ass and whine about me having to spend those 2 minutes on switching talents, i am not. It's actually your loss, not mine.