I think Legion's loot system is going to be its downfall.

[Deleted]

Green fire or the old vanilla class quests for epic weapons would fall under this category but I agree most wouldn't want well tuned solo content. Never mind it need to be tuned per class.

When green fire was relevant i roll an alt and in shit gear it took me 6 attempts on last boss to down whole Green fire thing. It was fun and story part was amazing. Good bit about was that nobody could carry you through it as you had to do it solo.

[primalmatter]

I think I am not seeing eye to eye with the OP about what "downfall" means. If WoW turned into something with the difficulty of Farmville, but continued to generate the same profit for Blizzard, is that a "downfall" in your eyes? @primalmatter

From my perspective yes it would be as I would no longer be a part of the game.

[Stacie]

The only loot issue im not overly keen on would be the legendary items. The rest i am cool with.

[WowIsDead64]

I actually don't like this loot system. Why? Because I don't like to be baited and I don't like to look motley. If I do Tanaan only and 695ilvl is maximum for me - I want all my items to be 695ilvl. I don't want to see THAT item on my character, that has much higher ilvl and that is an eyesore. This is partially the reason, why I've stopped doing pug raids - I want to have rewards, that may be have worse quality, but are guaranteed. Not to look like a clown due to having a terrible mix of different items equipped.

[kamuimac]

Every rpg ever?

and where are those rpg now ? its quite clear with all those drastic changes that wod was last try to force playerbase into raiding - you can fight it all you want but if legion wont loose 4-5mln players in 6 months only 1-2 it will forver prove to blizzard that any focus on raiding is wasted resource - nobody can know how this will end up but blizzard is clearly finally giving chance to world content outside of raiding - which imo will be very healthy for the game in long run - time will tell who was right.

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From my perspective yes it would be as I would no longer be a part of the game.

and maybe this will be more healthy for the game overall too- the less super burned out people and the more fresh players the better for the game and playerbase.

[primalmatter]

and where are those rpg now ? its quite clear with all those drastic changes that wod was last try to force playerbase into raiding - you can fight it all you want but if legion wont loose 4-5mln players in 6 months only 1-2 it will forver prove to blizzard that any focus on raiding is wasted resource - nobody can know how this will end up but blizzard is clearly finally giving chance to world content outside of raiding - which imo will be very healthy for the game in long run - time will tell who was right.

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and maybe this will be more healthy for the game overall too- the less super burned out people and the more fresh players the better for the game and playerbase.

Witcher 3,darksouls, skyrim, bravery default just to name the big titles their are countless others on steam.

If WoD has proven anything giving out free gear to awful players is a trap. They gotta take a step back. Burn lfr to the ground limit loot upgrades to no better then one mode up rather then raid gear and volla instant success.

Casuals and good players have fought from vanilla... funny how only raid realms have anything but low pop now isn't it?

Kind of remind me of this video. Nothing preachy just a song... though who is who in the song is up to you.

[Daffan]

PvP shouldn't even drop gear that can be used in PvE and the whole idea of RNG lockbox is stupid if they keep it.

Makes no sense.

1) Gear doesn't matter as much in PvP anymore.

2) They have a PvP gear scaling system. Eg. 700 scales to 730 in PvP. Why cant they make Normal Dungeon level equivalant items that scale differently each Season.
(S1 800/850, S2 800/880, S3 800/910)

3) Why can people skip PvE content just by afking in a battleground in later seasons.

[Nethlord]

The game now was made for casual players...

Never before has so much of a expansions resources gone towards them nor have the rewards ever been better (725 dungeon gear says hello)

Wod was the expansion for casuals it isn't a surprise to me it brought in casual profits.

I try to spend time with my rebuttals. I am not one to just throw a one line "zinger," drop the mic and walk out of a thread; but dear lord are clueless. In the 11 years I have ever played this game has there never been a more raid heavy expansion than WoD. Casual game? There was no game other than raiding?!? They might at as called WoD "Raid simulator-WoW edition."

You're not special, raiders are not special. I raid, because I play this game, i'm not a "raider." When you call someone "causal" we know what that means. It means "bad player" or "lazy player." And the thing is...you are the exact thing you disdain. You focus on one single aspect of the game, Man is that lazy I bet you haven't done all the world content have you, or is that beneath you? Call me wrong, but this mentality broke this game, Legion corrects this.

Be prepared to play with all the spooky "casuals" you are apparently afraid of playing with because now they actually have an avenue to obtain the "Super special gear" you so prize! In fact what you are afraid of, is for all that hate you throw at "casuals" they might just be doing the exact same DPS as you, or HPS or TANK!!! DEAR LORD YOU MIGHT BE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT THAN THE FILTHY CASUALS!!!

And this is why you are wrong.

<Drops mic, leaves thread>

[SteveRocks]

I think the whole any gear from any source can become a highest ilv piece available for that tier is going to backfire hard. I am trying to think of who such a system benefits and I really can't see anyone coming out ahead.

1. Raiders: The easy example. This boils down the progression race largely into whoever can get the most good rng in terms of drops. It doesn't add depth of game play nor ease of access. All I can see this doing is increasing requirements to join groups.

2. PuGs: After three weeks pugs are going to demand outrageous entry restrictions. Gear will not be even the slightest indicator of skill (not that it has been a amazing one for a while). People will fall back to having extremely high requirements in desperation to try and filter out players who only spam one ability from the rest of the group.

3. "casual" players: This crowd seems like it would be the most effected by the change. Not only does it reduce their progression to be no different then a Korean grind mmo it actively outgears them for content that is designed around them. It leads to a shallower and more empty experience.

4. PvP : Gear is going to be rng from this model... enjoy

5: Crafting: While the rework of crafting is good I question how effective it can possibly be when grinding boars for leather produces better leather gear then anything you craft... It seems like a effort in futility.

As for the Pros.

This system honestly does help out people with set group progress further and further in mythic + dungeons. I would be remiss not to show that it has at least some positive impact...

Anyways what do you think? Is there some draw to everything can be anything that I simply can't see from my perspective?

It gives raiders incentive to do something else besides raid. It gives other players more options to progress the power of their character. It helps even out the playing field a bit in terms of item level so that most players will be able to keep up with the content.

[primalmatter]

It gives raiders incentive to do something else besides raid. It gives other players more options to progress the power of their character. It helps even out the playing field a bit in terms of item level so that most players will be able to keep up with the content.

I don't think they should be keeping up...

Keeping up means everyone but raiders has their content turn into a joke they can afk through.

[SteveRocks]

I don't think they should be keeping up...

Keeping up means everyone but raiders has their content turn into a joke they can afk through.

I don't think that's what it means at all. "Keeping up," not "Facerolling-through."

[primalmatter]

I don't think that's what it means at all. "Keeping up," not "Facerolling-through."

What do you think keeping up with raiders means if all you do is world quests and heroic dungeons exactly?

[nazrakin]

Witcher 3,darksouls, skyrim, bravery default just to name the big titles their are countless others on steam.

If WoD has proven anything giving out free gear to awful players is a trap. They gotta take a step back. Burn lfr to the ground limit loot upgrades to no better then one mode up rather then raid gear and volla instant success.

Casuals and good players have fought from vanilla... funny how only raid realms have anything but low pop now isn't it?
[/video]

I cant speak for Bravely Default but none of those other games reward effort. Witcher and Skyrim both have easy mode settings that give the exact same rewards as their hardest. Dark Souls doesnt have a difficulty setting but it doesnt have any real baseline progression. Your starting gear is as good as anything else you find in the game. What defines the "best" weapons are the cheesiest movesets, and many of those drops off random "trash" enemies in the world.

[primalmatter]

I cant speak for Bravely Default but none of those other games reward effort. Witcher and Skyrim both have easy mode settings that give the exact same rewards as their hardest. Dark Souls doesnt have a difficulty setting but it doesnt have any real baseline progression. Your starting gear is as good as anything else you find in the game. What defines the "best" weapons are the cheesiest movesets, and many of those drops off random "trash" enemies in the world.

Witcher you replace gear as you advance... at least its designed for you to do so I guess you could just use your base kit on easy mode.

Skyrim you replace your gear as you advance in level.

Dark souls you replace gear and learn new magic as you advance...

Can you really not smell the bullshit you are selling?

[Sylreick]

So, the garrison system, but where you actually go out and do stuff to get it rather than from a menu? Better than WoD, but still iffy imo.

[SteveRocks]

What do you think keeping up with raiders means if all you do is world quests and heroic dungeons exactly?

Having the necessary gear to run the same raids.

[primalmatter]

Having the necessary gear to run the same raids.

and so raid or die continues.

[Rotted]

Now im not on the beta

nor have I checked up any offical notes,

But Im pretty sure these legenderies are going to be a worse grind than baron mount, or TK or anything along those lines.

[Wingspan]

As a person who spent at least 90% of his time in the open world, this is news about gear drops is actually very cool (I would have loved it).

It's not enough to make me return to the game, but it is a definite plus.

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and so raid or die continues.

Not really.

If questing could give you a relatively parallel gearing path to dungeons/raids, then someone who spends a lot of time in the open world would have the option to get into higher content... but it would not be mandatory to do so. I would have done a lot more dungeons over the years if my questing gear had allowed for it, but I was not interested in investing enough dungeon time to keep my gear valid... as such, I tended to ignore dungeons pretty quickly into new expansions.

The game has made moves towards something like this in recent years (with decent items available through world content) but never at a pace that would allow you to stay really current (at least not prior to WoD when I left). The grinds were a bit too long to be truly effective.

To be honest though, the drop rates in Alpha are probably not going to carry over. So I doubt it will be as cool as it all sounds.

[nazrakin]

Witcher you replace gear as you advance... at least its designed for you to do so I guess you could just use your base kit on easy mode.

Skyrim you replace your gear as you advance in level.

Dark souls you replace gear and learn new magic as you advance...

Can you really not smell the bullshit you are selling?

In WoW you replace gear, learn new spells, and (in legion) gain artifact power as you advance in level.

And I'm not selling anything I'm telling you that none of those games you've mentioned support this notion of "effort=reward". You get all the same rewards whether you playing on the hardest difficulty available or the easiest -- hell, you can switch your difficulties in the middle of an encounter with zero repercussions, so if the game ever does prove challenging you've got the option to immediately remove it and mindlessly mash your way to victory. Trying to hold any of these 3 games up as those which reward skill and effort where "the best players have the best gear" is the only bullshit I smell here.