[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Vanyali]

Wouldn't the 4 second window of Momentum be mostly over by the time you started with the Annihilation spam, thanks to Eye Beam channel and Felblade GCD? Or do you Fel Rush at some point in there too?

you can substitute Fel rush for felblade if you have blind fury, then fel rush + felblade after

[Warstar]

I rather like the new graphic for it, but LOL at the size difference per different sixed mobs. That's gonna be fun as shit to use xD

I think they're the same size over all just one screen shot was zoomed out and the other was closer. The close up one was on a book mob in Azshara which is pretty tiny and shows the graphic much better and the other was on a normal sized naga so you can see it only goes up about waist high on it. Using it on really large mobs you don't even see it. It's not like using chains of ice on Archimonde that make a graphic that takes up the whole screen. On a boss that big it would prolly look like a lil turd below him haha.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

I think they're the same size over all just one screen shot was zoomed out and the other was closer. The close up one was on a book mob in Azshara which is pretty tiny and shows the graphic much better and the other was on a normal sized naga so you can see it only goes up about waist high on it. Using it on really large mobs you don't even see it. It's not like using chains of ice on Archimonde that make a graphic that takes up the whole screen. On a boss that big it would prolly look like a lil turd below him haha.

Yeah, i figured as much, either way i like the fel look it has now over the earthen spike it was before. Looks much more appropriate among other fel skills in our toolkit.

[Warstar]

Yeah, i figured as much, either way i like the fel look it has now over the earthen spike it was before. Looks much more appropriate among other fel skills in our toolkit.

Totally the other one wasn't even really much of a graphic at all. I mean it made sense as a physical ability and all but now that it's chaos damage this one makes a lot more sense... and just looks pretty rad.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Totally the other one wasn't even really much of a graphic at all. I mean it made sense as a physical ability and all but now that it's chaos damage this one makes a lot more sense... and just looks pretty rad.

Yep, pretty excited to spec for it personally. Hopefully they can bring Prepared more in line so that when i do waddle around in some dungeons i can still use it and not feel goofy for doing so.

[Deleted]

Hello guys!
Shy poster here.
I just wanted to discuss something that.. It doesn't really need a thread per se, and is related to the DPS DH, so I'll stick it here. Feel free to move this post wherever it's more appropriate, if needed.

So, straight to the point:
Have you ever noticed that, if you check the spells on the database, under the 'specialization spells' category, opposed to EVERY SINGLE OTHER class, the Demon Hunter has absolutely none?
Not. A. Single. One.
Well, aside from 'demon hunter', the mastery and shattered souls, that is.
I find this choice pretty... odd, if anything.
You see, one can argue that the specialization forge itself through talents and whatnot, but... Still, having absolutely nothing that completely separates the Havoc spec form the Vengeance one (prior to talents) sounds like a bit... over-semplification, to me at least. Yes, fel rush is an exlusive of Havoc, if I recall right, yet Vengeance have... that... charged charge attack (sorry for redundance)... Infernal strike? that's basically heroic leap-like, but usable 2 times. Both have VR, afaik, and throw glaive.
And that's pretty much it. Vengeance has Sigils!
Havoc has...
...
Blade dance? It's not really the same thing, don't you think? Assuming that BD is Havoc exclusive.

Now, I'm not in Alpha, nor in Beta, so I can't really... Know, what I'm talking about aside from seeing 'datas'. Is that MMO-C database is bugged? Is there more to Havoc that is not categorized in the right place?
Mind that I'm not writing this just for the sake of a rant, and I apologize if I sound like that. I'm VERY VERY SUPER HYPED of this class, and I REALLY want to play the headstart in Legion's prepatch! (can't wait!) - and is very possible that it will become my main (CAN'T. WAIT. SRSLY.)
It's just that.. Coming from Paladin/Hunter class, seeing so much... nothing, under the spec-spell list... levaes me somehow uneasy.

So, what do you think? It's VERY late to write about something like this, but nevertheless... I'd like to hear you guys

Peace!

[bryntjl]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how the new demonic still beats out your other two talent choices now that Chaos Nova no longer activates it, and no longer extends meta itself. I know eye beam is a great CD, and Demonic makes it that much stronger, but enough to beat out the other two options? Or is It still in the air, and we just don't know yet?

[wordup]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how the new demonic still beats out your other two talent choices now that Chaos Nova no longer activates it, and no longer extends meta itself. I know eye beam is a great CD, and Demonic makes it that much stronger, but enough to beat out the other two options? Or is It still in the air, and we just don't know yet?

It's better because Annihilation is exactly double the strength of Chaos Strike, your GCD is dropped to 1sec for the 5sec window, and you can pool Fury/activate Prepared before you enter so you can empty it into a stream of Annihilations that hit like a truck.

[chooi]

I've got so fond of animation cancelling by now. Well, it's actually a love-hate relationship.

It's so rewarding when you jump in and out like a ninja while hammering down on the boss. Sometimes frustrating when you fuck up (or lag) but all the more reason to practice! Performing that well is a huge motivation for me currently. If it's really gone it definitely sucks some fun and skill component out of DH :/


I'm really concerned about Momentum (+ Prepared + Fel Mastery). Without animation cancelling it becomes quite unattractive to me.

They should just completely rework Momentum (and VR + Prepared). Because without AC it makes no sense. I already wrote earlier why VR is a stupid ability for a melee class. Now it becomes even more so because you can't do anything against its dumb disengage (and no, having to use Felblade - or even worse Fel Rush - to get back in melee is not good design).

Also, the non-Momentum builds are all quite boring in comparison...hope we'll see something interesting for the next build.

[videnfost]

As a member of the No-Beta club, I'm a little curious about the timing for VR/Felblade, and how it meshes with Demonic... The 4 second duration on Momentum seems like it would be somewhat wasted if you have to spend a GCD on Felblade, then use Eyebeam... Do you use VR/Felblade just as Eyebeam finishes and Demonic Meta begins, then Annihilate spam until it ends?

Without Blind Fury: Before Eyebeam, VR + Felblade into Eyebeam. Momentum Falls off as Eye Beam is ending, so you get a new Momentum with Fel Rush and begin Annihilation spam.

I'm really concerned about Momentum (+ Prepared + Fel Mastery). Without animation cancelling it becomes quite unattractive to me. They should just completely rework Momentum (and VR + Prepared). Because without AC it makes no sense. I already wrote earlier why VR is a stupid ability for a melee class. Now it becomes even more so because you can't do anything against its dumb disengage.

This is where Felblade comes into play, I believe. It's basically a sanctioned playstyle to animation cancel as you can use it while in the air after a VR. That, coupled with Blade Dance (and therefore First Blood) nerf, Felblade seems to be the go-to for any Prepared & Momentum build.

[Warstar]

Sans animation canceling I feel that Felblade is going to be the go to talent since even without the First Blood nerf the fact that Felblade will get you back to the boss much faster will give an added dps boost over the down time of walking back to the boss.

One thing I really hope they add to Momentum is the Pandemic function so if you do run into a case where you Fel Rush/VR out and then Fel Rush back in you get a larger buff and don't essentially "waste" one of them.

Also I hope that all the beta tester make a huge outcry and get them to add learning talents to the starting zone so that we have all of the talents available to us to level up with. Only positive to them not doing that and keeping it as is is that it will prevent a lot of people from playing them since they're going to try to mess around with them for the pre-release of DHs and find they're kind of terrible with only having access to 2 talents so potentially that will stem the influx of people wanting to main them for Legion.

[wordup]

There's really not much of a realistic discussion atm, Felblade is better than First Blood in all but an AoE situation where you're already casting Blade Dance anyway.

[Vanyali]

This is where Felblade comes into play, I believe. It's basically a sanctioned playstyle to animation cancel as you can use it while in the air after a VR. That, coupled with Blade Dance (and therefore First Blood) nerf, Felblade seems to be the go-to for any Prepared & Momentum build.

might be lag, but i've had little luck doing that. you can't get the charge until you touch down unless you hit the exact millisecond the way you do for canceling right now.

[Warstar]

might be lag, but i've had little luck doing that. you can't get the charge until you touch down unless you hit the exact millisecond the way you do for canceling right now.

Pretty sure it's lag. Was doing it pretty easy at the peak of the arc back. With Felblade because it is a melee attack you need to be outside of melee range to get the charge back in other wise you'll just tag the mob with a melee hit and keep going back.

[videnfost]

There's really not much of a realistic discussion atm, Felblade is better than First Blood in all but an AoE situation where you're already casting Blade Dance anyway.

Assuming they get rid of animation cancelling, even in an AoE situation I don't think the damage gained from First Blood is worth giving up Felblade.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

First Blood might be worse than Felblade now, but at least it isn't Demon Reborn, right? Right.

[wordup]

Assuming they get rid of animation cancelling, even in an AoE situation I don't think the damage gained from First Blood is worth giving up Felblade.

It is simply because you're having the reduced Fury on a spell you're using on CD anyway, and gain free damage on top of that for less GCDs than Felblade requires.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

It is simply because you're having the reduced Fury on a spell you're using on CD anyway, and gain free damage on top of that for less GCDs than Felblade requires.

FIrst Blood best multi-target talent on that row confirmed?

[Warstar]

FIrst Blood best multi-target talent on that row confirmed?

Wouldn't that make Felblade even better in that situation for Chaos Cleave?

[videnfost]

It is simply because you're having the reduced Fury on a spell you're using on CD anyway, and gain free damage on top of that for less GCDs than Felblade requires.

Yeah you're not wrong. That being said, what you're really looking at is Momentum vs First Blood. Without Felblade or animation cancelling you also lose Momentum, or at least half of your Momentum uptime. Things might be different if Nemesis were a buff on yourself, or if you could manage a Nemesis to attach to yourself right before the AoE starts, but otherwise Momentum will reign supreme on AoE. The 20% damage is way more valuable than 20 less Fury on BD. That 20% buff will affect your cleaved Chaos Strike, Inner Fury, Blade Dance, Eye Beam, Anguish, Fury of the Illidari, and double dip on Rage of the Illidari, all of which are considerable AoE skills. If you're using both VR and Fel Rush, you'll be ending up with somewhere around 60% Momentum uptime, most likely centered around the skills I mentioned for even further value.

First Blood doesn't contribute a lot to raw AoE damage output, it just gives you ~20 more Fury to work with (which will probably be put into a Chaos Strike) and adds a damage boost to one target. Felblade, on the other hand, does contribute heavily to raw AoE damage output, as it allows you to save your Fel Rush Momentums for the moments after VR has fallen off. Not to mention the actual damage Fel Rush does as an AoE, which is considerable and may not reach an entire pack if cast from the back end of a VR arc, as you would without Felblade.

All of that doesn't really take into consideration how good Bloodlet ends up being. I haven't tested it very much, but if it's good enough to rival Momentum on a 3+ target situation, then First Blood would most definitely come ahead of Felblade for those AoE situations. But again, if you're using Momentum and they do fix animation cancelling you basically have no choice but to also pick up Felblade.