Upcoming talent change gutting

[BiggestNoob]

BASICALLY
Picking a talent isnt just deciding on what bonus to have, its also choosing what you will be forced to deal without, making a tradeoff. being able to swap on the fly really undermines the 'do without' part of the decision making process by being able to pick everything when you need it

That's not really true. Talents which are large CDs can't be switched out of quickly right now because you have to wait for the CD to be up. All this means in reality is performing significantly lower in terms of throughput or not having a CC ability that's suited to the thing you're about to do.

The concept of making an AoE mage and being shit at ST and being stuck that way is 1990s thinking. It's also undermined by the fact that you can switch specs already, so I could make a fire mage specialized in AoE and an arcane specialized in ST and then just spec swap. So this doesn't actually even implement such a limitation.

It's just a massive annoyance that effectively provides nothing to the game except making the option of uninstalling more appealing.

I'm talking about the guild flask cauldron.

It's a similar mechanic, so I was relating the items because we don't know the cost yet.

All we know is

with a cost aimed at groups.

TFW the devs don't realize that this negatively impacts those of us who carry LFG and LFR content. "group" content where not a single person other than me is going to put up the cost of letting me and anyone else talent switch in order to maximize the group's performance.

[Dhrizzle]

TFW the devs don't realize that this negatively impacts those of us who carry LFG and LFR content. "group" content where not a single person other than me is going to put up the cost of letting me and anyone else talent switch in order to maximize the group's performance.

If you're in LFR or LFG content you shouldn't need to change talents.

[deadman1]

If you're in LFR or LFG content you shouldn't need to change talents.

There are still ST bosses and AoE bosses.

Also I don't really understand why "needing" to change talents should be the only time I'm allowed to change them.

PS - @Cooper - this is an example of autonomy or lack thereof.

[Cooper]

There are still ST bosses and AoE bosses.

Also I don't really understand why "needing" to change talents should be the only time I'm allowed to change them.

PS - @Cooper - this is an example of autonomy or lack thereof.

Nope, it's not. You are absolutely free to make your own choices. Just because the choices have costs doesn't strip you of your capacity to independently make them. You can either - of your own volition, which is the key here - choose to keep the talents you currently have, or spend the time and resources to change them.

"Autonomy" has zero to do with this.

[Tucci]

Not sure how I feel about this as it's just going to make it harder on players/guilds to maximize whatever their role is, which they're going to do anyways (especially in things like CM's), even if they have to jump through some hoops. Back in the day you were stuck with what you chose for talents unless you wanted to go all the way back to town and fully respec. While I can't say I love constantly changing talents between fights, I don't know if this helps or not. I feel like people will still do it, but now it'll just be more of a pain in the ass. Some will need to change, some won't, the raid will be halted, etc. The tomes will probably cost an arm and a leg as well and will constantly need to be stocked, like feasts.

I don't know. I like maximizing my dps, I don't love constantly switching talents but I'd rather have it one way or the other and not just keep things the way they pretty much already are but make it harder to do.

[deadman1]

Nope, it's not. You are absolutely free to make your own choices. Just because the choices have costs doesn't strip you of your capacity to independently make them. You can either - of your own volition, which is the key here - choose to keep the talents you currently have, or spend the time and resources to change them.

"Autonomy" has zero to do with this.

Well it's surely not good for the player, and it's a step in the bad direction. Even if it isn't a direct removal of autonomy, it's surely an attempt at limiting autonomy.

And look at that you made it through a whole post without an insult, and you actually clearly laid out your point instead of saying "HAHAHA" or calling me stupid.

If I just said "limiting player autonomy" instead of "taking away player autonomy" You wouldn't have called me a baby and stupid?

[BiggestNoob]

Nope, it's not. You are absolutely free to make your own choices. Just because the choices have costs doesn't strip you of your capacity to independently make them. You can either - of your own volition, which is the key here - choose to keep the talents you currently have, or spend the time and resources to change them.

"Autonomy" has zero to do with this.

You can't. I'd like to pre-pot on bosses in LFR because it's a significant DPS increase, but I can't because there's no pull timer, people just pull when they want. You think an LFR is going to sit around and wait for someone to drop one of these and let people change talents?

Right now I can, while running to the boss, quickly switch things around in about 10 seconds. It has 0 impact on the rest of the group and I have the autonomy to do it if I so choose (and nobody else needs to unless they want to). In situations like this I can no longer reliably make a decision on my own, it's up to whether the group is willing not to pull, and this is LFR so the answer is no.

[Zandro]

I don't see where the inconvenience is... You will have one extra item in your bags that needs to be bought or created. Am I missing something?

[Delimit]

I don't see where the inconvenience is... You will have one extra item in your bags that needs to be bought or created. Am I missing something?

Apparently so. A little thing called convenience, and excessive gold costs.

[deadman1]

I don't see where the inconvenience is... You will have one extra item in your bags that needs to be bought or created. Am I missing something?

You're missing that the item has a high cost so it's not viable to use it for a single person, only for a large group.

[Wildpantz]

You will still need to respec every pull, it'll just cost you quite a bit of money.

Wait didnt they change it so you had to go to town or safe zone for it

[deadman1]

Wait didnt they change it so you had to go to town or safe zone for it

Or use an expensive item that scribes can make.

Changing talents out in the field will require a reagent crafted by Inscription with a cost aimed at groups.

[BiggestNoob]

Wait didnt they change it so you had to go to town or safe zone for it

Presumably you drop this item and everyone within a certain radius can change their talents, which means you must be stationary to use it. It could also have some large cast time or CD which makes it even more annoying to use.

Contrast that with current tomes -- you can respec while running to the next encounter. This instead means you have to hold up a group if you want to respec.

[MachoSasquatcho]

I actually miss this aspect of the game: Having a talent choice that actually matters. I honestly don't care for how it is now where you can just spam switch talents so you basically always have the answer to everything 100% of the time. Respeccing between each boss fight isn't fun to me. It takes away from the identity of whatever class/spec I'm playing. I guess I just felt that it was alot more fun when a talent choice defined how you were going to play your character and the decision wasn't so easily reversible. Having access to all the talents all the time really takes away from the RPG aspect of the game because like they said it really feels like you just have all the spells anyway.

Whether or not this is the correct way to address this problem I don't know.

[Aggrophobic]

Wait didnt they change it so you had to go to town or safe zone for it

That or buy thoes items that has their costs "tuned for groups" so... Gonna cost quite a bit.

[deadman1]

I actually miss this aspect of the game: Having a talent choice that actually matters. I honestly don't care for how it is now where you can just spam switch talents so you basically always have the answer to everything 100% of the time. Respeccing between each boss fight isn't fun to me. It takes away from the identity of whatever class/spec I'm playing. I guess I just felt that it was alot more fun when a talent choice defined how you were going to play your character and the decision wasn't so easily reversible. Having access to all the talents all the time really takes away from the RPG aspect of the game because like they said it really feels like you just have all the spells anyway.

Whether or not this is the correct way to address this problem I don't know.

Well considering it doesn't actually stop "spam switching" I'd say this isn't the correct way to get what you're talking about.

You're still going ti be respeccing between each fight if you are in any sort of progression guild.

[BiggestNoob]

I actually miss this aspect of the game: Having a talent choice that actually matters.

Except this is the opposite of that. Restricting this takes away choice. It encourages people to pick generalist talents and then there's a "one right set of talents" that everyone uses all the time.

When you can change your talents depending on what you need to do, there's a depth of choice added and those choices matter. If you don't switch to a better talent, you don't perform as well. It also allows players to experience the other abilities that would otherwise never see use because they're too niche.

I honestly don't care for how it is now where you can just spam switch talents so you basically always have the answer to everything 100% of the time.

Except you don't, because you can't change them while you're fighting or when the abilities are on CD (and some of them are many minutes long).

I guess I just felt that it was alot more fun when a talent choice defined how you were going to play your character

It still does.

and the decision wasn't so easily reversible

You don't have to change your talents if you don't want to. If you want to play the permanent talent game, feel free. Why do you need to impair the game for everyone else, though?

Having access to all the talents all the time really takes away from the RPG aspect of the game because like they said it really feels like you just have all the spells anyway.

Except you don't, you still have to make tradeoffs and make the right decision. It's not always easily clear which talent is best for which scenario, but you never really get to experiment and find out if you're stuck with a decision you made without the ability to test things out or without enough information.

[MachoSasquatcho]

Well considering it doesn't actually stop "spam switching" I'd say this isn't the correct way to get what you're talking about.

You're still going ti be respeccing between each fight if you are in any sort of progression guild.

Agreed and I'm not a fan of that gameplay design at all. But that's just my opinion.

[Deleted]

That or buy thoes items that has their costs "tuned for groups" so... Gonna cost quite a bit.

Feasts are also "tuned for groups". Did you have any problems accessing feasts in WoD?

[deadman1]

Feasts are also "tuned for groups". Did you have any problems accessing feasts in WoD?

No, but did you drop feasts in solo play or 5 mans? Especially early on?