Upcoming talent change gutting

[Risale]

Well at least warlocks are going to have a guaranteed raid spot.
Now all we need to make sure of is that non of the raiders respecs/glyphs and goes to check on his auctions and orderhall.

[BiggestNoob]

Feasts are also "tuned for groups". Did you have any problems accessing feasts in WoD?

No because food is free in WoD, and you rarely want to sit down and eat a different food so you have an hour and if you don't die you're fine. Their impact is also minimal (< 1% overall) vs talents which can be enormous.

[Teebone]

So... they're bringing back the re-spec tome from Lich King. Why? What possible good or benefit does this have? Immersion? Why do they even waste time on changes like this? Jesus fucking Christ quitting Blizzard old turkey was the best thing I ever did game wise. This studio needs either a) good, directed leadership or b) to just fucking fold already.

This kind of chaos... I don't get it. It's so god damned counter-productive.

[Aggrophobic]

Feasts are also "tuned for groups". Did you have any problems accessing feasts in WoD?

Having to pop out 10+ of thoes every dungeon will hurt, yes. Never had to do that in WoD as there was food that was affordable for a single player.
Ion clearly stats that that is not the intent with this new system though.

They are trying to promote "spec identity" by limiting what you can do with your spec while letting you switch to other specs as you want, with no cost.

They are more or less rewarding people that are to lazy or cheap to respec while they are punishing players that actually want to to the best they can to beat an encounter

Makes no sense what so ever.

[dextersmith]

That's the best news yet. Since you can eat in dungeons, how is the new talent thing different from now?

[deadman1]

That's the best news yet. Since you can eat in dungeons, how is the new talent thing different from now?

It's a group wide item, like a feast that allows you to swap talents, so it will be relatively expensive, it's not intended for individual use. And if you don't have one of those items, you'll only be allowed to switch talents when in a rest area city/inn.

[Dhrizzle]

No, but did you drop feasts in solo play or 5 mans? Especially early on?

Do you need feasts, or respecs, in solo play or 5 mans?

[deadman1]

Do you need feasts, or respecs, in solo play or 5 mans?

5 man challenge modes yes.

Either way, it's not about need.

Do you need a car to drive to work? No, but is it more convenient? Yes.

[Dhrizzle]

5 man challenge modes yes.

I do foresee a problem for 5-man groups trying to clear Mythic runs, though perhaps it could be countered by large cash payout on the boss.

Either way, it's not about need.

Part of me does think that restricting talent changes when out in the world could be a good thing. Currently when I switch talents I quickly go back to the ones I'm more familiar with because it's my comfort zone (I have a similar problem with D3.) If my talents were locked when I head out to quest I'll probably give them a better test. Whether this encouragement is better for the game than the freedom to switch at will I couldn't really say.

[dextersmith]

It's a group wide item, like a feast that allows you to swap talents, so it will be relatively expensive, it's not intended for individual use. And if you don't have one of those items, you'll only be allowed to switch talents when in a rest area city/inn.

I know, but people are resting when they recover health/mana in dungeons and in the wild.

[deadman1]

I do foresee a problem for 5-man groups trying to clear Mythic runs, though perhaps it could be countered by large cash payout on the boss.



Part of me does think that restricting talent changes when out in the world could be a good thing. Currently when I switch talents I quickly go back to the ones I'm more familiar with because it's my comfort zone (I have a similar problem with D3.) If my talents were locked when I head out to quest I'll probably give them a better test. Whether this encouragement is better for the game than the freedom to switch at will I couldn't really say.

I don't agree but that is neither here nor there, I don't think forcing people or even trying to tempt people to do things in a game that they don't want to just for the sake of doing them is good.

But either way it doesn't stop people from hearthing or running to a quest hub to change their talents, it just makes it more inconvinent.

Beware personal anecdotes ahead - The reason I said "this doesn't make your talents more impactful is because I know for a fact if I forget to spec into mirror image while questing, I'm just going to mount up, run to the nearest inn and change. It's not going to make me say "oh well better just use inacnters flow" it's going to make me say "fuck now I have to go back to the quest hub and stand next to the innkeeper." Maybe not everyone will be like that, but for me as a mage, Mirror image helps me kill bigger mobs because they tank for me as a fluffy little mage.

So maybe you can see from my point of view why it's annoying. Right now I can just use a tome in my inventory, but now I'm going to have to go to an Inn (and I will) I won't just stick to the talents that I don't want to use. That isn't fun for me.

- - - Updated - - -

I know, but people are resting when they recover health/mana in dungeons and in the wild.

No no, that isn't what that means you're just thinking about being "out of combat". "Rest areas" is a proper noun in this case it refers to the places where you can log out without waiting 20 seconds.

So think cities, class halls (garrison), innkeepers, that kind of thing.

[xChurch]

"brb going to Dalaran to respec" about sums it up.

[Kurve1776]

I don't know why you keep insisting that the old system was any different.

The old system COULD also be tailored to switch talents around for every fight or taking into consideration your specific group needs - I specifically remember our Naxx 40 runs with people hearting to change spec on occasion (Specially if one of our Blessing of Kings paladins were missing). But you know what? It was such a hassle that most people simply didn't BOTHER, which is precisely the point.

It's inconvenient enough that people just opt into sticking with their spec, making-do with their restricted options. That is good design.

Personally, I find a cooldown a much more elegant solution, but WoW is still a very casual-friendly game.

The point I'm making is that the new system is designed around switching around as needed on the field, it is the whole reason we have it and didn't just stick to the old system. The system we have now is designed around NOT being a hassle to switch talents as needed, and now suddenly they're trying to make it work exactly like the old system (adding the consumable item to the mix) for no reason whatsoever, screwing people that base their playstyle around switching quite often.

It is just plain unnecessary and a waste of development time.

[nyc81991]

What I really don't like is that they are admitting to intentionally designing talents where you have to constantly change between them to stay competitive, rather than make competitive talents that change your play style and set you apart from other people playing your class / spec.

[Delimit]

What I really don't like is that they are admitting to intentionally designing talents where you have to constantly change between them to stay competitive, rather than make competitive talents that change your play style and set you apart from other people playing your class / spec.

On top of punishing the players for having the audacity to actually want to pick the talents.

[Fynzie]

It's not abount being a good designer at this point, it's about being born of inbreeding

[melodramocracy]

the point of talents is versatility

What makes you say this exactly? Talents are what creates a less versatile, more specialized version of whatever class you play (well, at least in Blizzards terribly simplistic system). The fact that you've been able to change them recently at a moments notice, while absurd, has nothing to do with why they exist in the first place.

[Schattenlied]

I would be perfectly ok with this if switching talents on a fight to fight basis wasn't required... But unfortunately, Blizzard is stupid and puts AoE and ST talents in the same rows, effectively stripping the player of any actual choice... They force us to use what's best for the given fight based on "Does this fight have AoE? Y/N" instead of "How do you want to do your AoE?"... If they only put AoE talents in a row with other AoE talents, and only put ST talents in a row with other ST talents, it wouldn't matter, because then it would be purely a play-style choice.

For example: http://i.imgur.com/pYh48HE.png

[Unholyground]

You have to factor the massive increase in competition you'll have as so many people level inscription just to be able to switch talents on their own terms.

Partly true, but I have a feeling they will craft in stacks of 10, so 50g for 10 maybe? I don't thing anyone is going to be hurting in the wallet. It may not stay that way anyhow it is still beta.

[grexly75]

Vannila players are totaly ok with this.

I am pretty sure they are, I am thinking more of those players that say they want vanilla because they weren't playing at the time.. Whether they could handle it and well with this change they will have to handle it in Legion.. lol