Why are people against wendys self service kiosk ?

[Revi]

Less flexible service, zero of the savings benefiting me as a consumer, loss of low-skill jobs.

In shops with self-checkouts I do a lot more work myself to help the company save money while still paying the same price. Not sure why that's a good deal for me.

[vindicatorx]

A kiosk won't give you an attitude or talk about you behind your back. I don't eat fast food anymore but I see nothing but benefits.

A) no one likes it when a perceived huge company announces it's taking measures to cut jobs while making $161 million in profit. B) Most people are not aware that of the 6,000+ stores only 600 are owned by Wendy's themselves this kiosk thing will mainly affect franchise owners. C) who really cares if an employee working at Wendy's talk about them behind their back?

[Mad_Murdock]

A) no one likes it when a perceived huge company announces it's taking measures to make a profit.

I think that edit better sums up some of the attitudes on MMO champion. All companies should be non-profit, Else they are evil!

[Shudder]

I went to Mcdonalds last week and they had those touch pad machines to order your food. Won't be going back.

[Zython]

These things wouldn't be a problem if we actually got rid of the idea that people need work in order to survive. Technology is rapidly pushing us past that, but we're being cruel to others and holding tech back solely to maintain capitalism for...some reason.

[Mythbredor]

Could someone provide a link to what exactly this is about apparently I missed something and I'm a bit interested in what the heck this means xD

[Twdft]

Basically, and I say this having run a small business, an employee whose only responsible is inputting orders at the counter, maybe sweeping the floor between, arranging boxes, etc... they do not provide an economic benefit to the business of $15 every hour worked. They simply are not doing work worth that much money to the employer.

The goal of minimum wage is not to reflect the economic benefit to the business but to make sure a person working 8 hours a day is able to live of that income.

Say you as a business owner benefit about $5/h and pay that to your employee. That would mean 200$ per week. Your employee actually is a human being and 200$ income a week isn't exactly living a decent life. If you can't figure out how to pay your employee $15/h then just don't hire one.

People demand $15/h not because they think the job is worth it, but because they are not slaves and want to live a decent life after spending 40 hours a week for you.

[Stormdash]

The goal of minimum wage is not to reflect the economic benefit to the business but to make sure a person working 8 hours a day is able to live of that income.

No... that's just the goal of hiring anyone to do any job at all.

Sigh.

If the boss had the time, energy, arms, and inclination to do every job in their business themselves, they would. But they can't or won't, so they need other people to do it -- but there's no point at all in bothering to hire that person if the work they are going to do is worth less money to you than having them do it benefits your business. You follow?

If I have a list of tasks I want someone to do in my store, and the dollar value on the P&L of those tasks being completed is about $6.50 every hour worked, why in the hell would I hire someone to do those tasks if I had to, by law, pay them $9.50, or $12, or $15 per hour worked? I'm not going to do that... I'll do some of them myself, I'll cross-train other employees to incorporate some of their tasks into their other responsibilities.

Or in the case of the Wendy's kiosks, I put down an upfront capital expense for machinery and then it's off my plate as a labor cost entirely.

Say you as a business owner benefit about $5/h and pay that to your employee. That would mean 200$ per week. Your employee actually is a human being and 200$ income a week isn't exactly living a decent life. If you can't figure out how to pay your employee $15/h then just don't hire one.

The business does not exist to solve that problem for the employee. That's what finding other jobs or additional jobs is for, that is what modifying their lifestyle or having good relationships with others is for. Their work for Employer A is worth no more and no less than Employer A is willing to pay them and they are willing to agree to work. Labor is no different from any other retail good or service in that regard, it's price is determined solely by the willing buyer and willing seller.

People demand $15/h not because they think the job is worth it, but because they are not slaves and want to live a decent life after spending 40 hours a week for you.

They aren't slaves at $7.95 and weren't slaves at $4.25 either. Because, y'know, $. And also, free will. There are actual slaves in the world today and obviously throughout history that would probably love to peckerslap you for that metaphor, which is basically the moral equivalent of the whole "rape in video games" metaphor.

[vindicatorx]

I think that edit better sums up some of the attitudes on MMO champion. All companies should be non-profit, Else they are evil!

I would say people in general assume that companies that are pretty large, meaning > 1000 stores they are rolling in the cash big time and automatically assume they are fucking their employees. In this case Wendy's which is mostly owned by franchisees did this to save those owners who are barely making it and can't afford to near double an employees wage without jacking the prices.

[Tijuana]

[Cthulhu 2020]

When I worked at a fast food cafe about a decade ago, we got a self-order kiosk that allowed customers to walk up and type in their order. It came with full customization, like no mayo, extra mayo, extra extra mayo, and otherwise all toppings and ingredients for all dishes. It was an all around great system. When we first implemented it, people used it out of what I figure was novelty. It was something new and the customers got a kick out of using it for a bit...

But after awhile, it saw almost no use whatsoever. They eventually got rid of it because of the costs associated with continuing to rent the software, and it never succeeded in replacing anyone.

This is found throughout retail and food jobs. Customers WANT face to face interaction, even when a machine can do the same thing.

I'm sure the wendy's kiosk is here to stay, and will see some use, but let's face it, it's not replacing cashiers.

People who like to proclaim doom and economic collapse from the minimum wage of course always argue that automation is coming for minimum wage jobs, but that makes so little sense. Why replace minimum wagers when they're cheap and do labor that can only be accomplished by big heavy machinery? No, the jobs that are being replaced by automation are largely middle class since they cost a lot and can be easily replaced with software that costs far less than bulky and expensive robots.

[Twdft]

The business does not exist to solve that problem for the employee. That's what finding other jobs or additional jobs is for, that is what modifying their lifestyle or having good relationships with others is for.

So who else should solve that problem? Businesses are the main source of income for people and if they don't pay enough just get another job, is it? Just work 16 hours, I thought civilisation was past that shit. Also: there isn't even enough work to do for everyone having an 8h job and with more automation even less.

Another way but I guess you'll like it even less: unconditional basic income. Let the government solve the problem and give everyone the equivalent of $15/h full time job pay just for being alive. Businesses then could pay whatever small amount they want and find people for to stock boxes and flip burgers.

[Fenixhart]

People who look at the short term are against automation. In the end, automation is happening and simply reflects our tech evolution. Ultimately it's a good thing.

Assuming the Economy is prepared to adjust for it.

When you replace human labor with machine labor, what are people supposed to do for income?

[XangXu]

On my trip recently I went into a Mc. Donald's that had self order Kiosks. The manager says that they have upped business and they've actually had to hire more kitchen staff.

[Deleted]

When I worked at a fast food cafe about a decade ago, we got a self-order kiosk that allowed customers to walk up and type in their order. It came with full customization, like no mayo, extra mayo, extra extra mayo, and otherwise all toppings and ingredients for all dishes. It was an all around great system. When we first implemented it, people used it out of what I figure was novelty. It was something new and the customers got a kick out of using it for a bit...

But after awhile, it saw almost no use whatsoever. They eventually got rid of it because of the costs associated with continuing to rent the software, and it never succeeded in replacing anyone.

This is found throughout retail and food jobs. Customers WANT face to face interaction, even when a machine can do the same thing.

I'm sure the wendy's kiosk is here to stay, and will see some use, but let's face it, it's not replacing cashiers.

People who like to proclaim doom and economic collapse from the minimum wage of course always argue that automation is coming for minimum wage jobs, but that makes so little sense. Why replace minimum wagers when they're cheap and do labor that can only be accomplished by big heavy machinery? No, the jobs that are being replaced by automation are largely middle class since they cost a lot and can be easily replaced with software that costs far less than bulky and expensive robots.

Not all customers want face to face time with some McDonald's employee.
I would take the machine any fucking time I am at the airport looking for a quick burger before getting on my flight.

Fuck having to talk to some 40 year old freckled fucker with an IQ lower then the burger they are serving.

[Deleted]

Some people really arent able to press more than 2 buttons without losing their shit.

I've seen people completely stressed when they had to buy a train ticket from a machine once.

[Hiricine]

Assuming the Economy is prepared to adjust for it.

When you replace human labor with machine labor, what are people supposed to do for income?

Well on the plus side, they don't need as much income. In the 1800's more than 85% of people had to be farmers, now the number is down to like 4-5% because of technology. We have vastly more unemployed people in every country (even the third world ones), and yet they live a better lifestyle than they ever would 100 years ago. You don't see alot of them forgoing technology to live off the land, grow their own food, and build their own shelters, because the technology which displaced their labor allows them not to do it instead of starve.

[Ryme]

When I worked at a fast food cafe about a decade ago, we got a self-order kiosk that allowed customers to walk up and type in their order. It came with full customization, like no mayo, extra mayo, extra extra mayo, and otherwise all toppings and ingredients for all dishes. It was an all around great system. When we first implemented it, people used it out of what I figure was novelty. It was something new and the customers got a kick out of using it for a bit...

But after awhile, it saw almost no use whatsoever. They eventually got rid of it because of the costs associated with continuing to rent the software, and it never succeeded in replacing anyone.

This is found throughout retail and food jobs. Customers WANT face to face interaction, even when a machine can do the same thing.

I'm sure the wendy's kiosk is here to stay, and will see some use, but let's face it, it's not replacing cashiers.

People who like to proclaim doom and economic collapse from the minimum wage of course always argue that automation is coming for minimum wage jobs, but that makes so little sense. Why replace minimum wagers when they're cheap and do labor that can only be accomplished by big heavy machinery? No, the jobs that are being replaced by automation are largely middle class since they cost a lot and can be easily replaced with software that costs far less than bulky and expensive robots.

America seems very set in their ways, from a retail perspective, maybe that's being stubborn maybe it's because the logistics of rolling out new platforms in America are so much more demanding than in smaller countries. I think they've only just picked up chip and pin, which about a decade behind other western countries who are even now moving to the next step in removal of plastic altogether.

I've just realised that I've totally assumed you're American here, but underlying point remains: self serve has been shown to work in other countries and areas with great success, since it's cheaper to use for the company once it's in place and used it will likely never stop spreading at this point.

[Eroginous]

Yes, it's a skillless job and most people could do it in their sleep.

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Your opinion is so far removed from reality it makes me sad that there are powerful people in the world in agreement with you, actively working against any attempt to increase wages/benefits in general. For some unfathomable reason you think that the value of someone's time is worth nothing. That they have to scrape by and live paycheck to paycheck because it's supposed to be that way. That when someone in a job like that gets sick or injured, they should just lose everything and be unable to pay for any of it because they work a job that in your opinion, requires no 'skill' and that someone could do 'in their sleep.' No, flipping burgers is not an unskilled job. Have you ever done it? Have you ever done it for 8 hours a day? I'm sorry, but people like you have no concept of reality.

Working a grill, cash register, mop bucket, or any other 'unskilled' job takes a specific type of skill that quite frankly, people like you don't possess. You can't possess it because you have the opinion you have of the people who do possess it. What skill am I talking about? Well, to be perfectly fucking frank, it's the skill to take a completely shit task that sucks to do for 5 minutes, endure that shit task with competency and accuracy for up to 8 hours a day, and then turn around and please people like you who shit on them all day long.

If you had ask someone like that what they dislike most about their life, it would be that they have to deal with unappreciative assholes who treat them like garbage because of their position in life. I'm sorry, but you don't deserve to have an opinion on this matter, you can't see past your own goddamn self entitlement.

That's right. Anyone who sits here and defends making more money over anyone else for any reason is every bit as entitled as anyone else. You get paid what you get paid because someone thought you deserved to get paid that much. And you act like you deserve it because you have a different skill than a guy who flips burgers. Let me ask you something. How much skill does it take to be a garbage man? You drive a big truck and you dump cans full of shit people don't want into it. If one garbage man is making $9 an hour, while another garbage man is making $26 an hour, explain to me why either one should be making what they are making, considering the fucking obvious lack of 'skill' required.

Please explain it to me without using the word 'entitled,' if you can.

Also: there are people out there who literally get paid to sleep. People participating in sleep studies are actually working in their sleep. Everyone else is just sleeping or working, not both. Stop with the nonsense hyperbole, you already don't have an argument. Hyperbole doesn't help.

That is why its poverty level pay.

No. It's poverty level pay because a complex series of events have unfolded in history, allowing for these hugely profitable companies to emerge and pay their workers very little with very little oversight by the government. The idea that a company could hire you, pay you less than what you need to support yourself (much less a family), for time you spend doing something for them (not yourself), and then this is all supposed to be normal, is fucking indefensible at best.

Other countries look at how we treat our employees and they fucking cringe.

McDonald's doesn't pay you minimum wage because that's what your labor is worth, they pay you minimum wage because that's what the law allows them to do. The law allows them to pay you less for your time and effort. The law allows for them to give you far fewer hours than you need to sustain an income. The law allows for them to deny you benefits based on the number of hours you are given to work per week on a 6 week average. Are you starting to understand the problem here? It's not that workers want higher wages. It's that companies are allowed to treat their employees poorly, and you're making excuses for them to keep doing it.

That's fucking despicable.

Do you know why garbage men can make a liveable wage for unskilled labor? Because they have the protection of the unions. Something most retail and fast food companies refuse to let employees have. They don't get paid $26 an hour because they have some unique skill that most other people don't have. Same goes with people in YOUR profession. They don't have some unique skill that most other people don't have. What they DO have is a position in a company who has decided their employees are more valuable than the value companies such as Walmart place on their employees. Unless you actively use the things your degree says you learned on a daily basis in your job, you do not possess anything unique that makes you more valuable than the next guy. You just happen to be employed by a company who isn't shafting you for whatever profit margin they are trying to gain by doing so.

That's right. Your wage is happenstance. So don't be a fuckwit and try to argue that someone who flips a burger is worth less than whatever it is you do. Because frankly, teachers, doctors, and scientists are far more valuable (based on the amount of skill and knowledge their jobs actually require) than anyone and they are dealing with the same problems for the same reasons. If you know someone who is any of those three things IRL, ask them how much the average person in their office makes. You'll be surprised.

And yes, I realize I'll probably get a couple points for this, but this stuff needs to be read.

Less flexible service, zero of the savings benefiting me as a consumer, loss of low-skill jobs.

In shops with self-checkouts I do a lot more work myself to help the company save money while still paying the same price. Not sure why that's a good deal for me.

As someone with a lot of experience working in retail/food service I can try to parse this out a little bit for you. The idea behind self checkout is not to save money, but to better accommodate the kind of clientele who come in just for a couple items. I don't know about you, if I go into a store, I avoid any line with more than 3 people. I never really go shopping and fill up a cart and then force someone to spend 15 minutes scanning all my stuff, and most of the time I'm getting less than 10 things. Or what I'm getting can fit in a basket with a carry handle and I don't need a cart. So from my standpoint, I'd rather not wait behind someone with a mountain of shit in a cart. I value the option of being able to check myself out and spent less time waiting around for an underpaid part-timer to do the thing and get me out of there.

On the flip side, companies like Walmart under staff their stores to begin with (especially the registers) and create the need for things like self check out so that the two registers open don't have lines 15 people deep all the time (they do anyway). But I worked for Fred Meyer when they installed theirs (before Walmart) and they are manned by someone who spends as much time helping people checkout as they would just doing it for them. I really don't see the displacement except in circumstances where companies are already doing things poorly. As I said before, automation will always require some form of human aid.

So there will always be a job for someone (maybe just not for Everyone).

[Deleted]

Less flexible service, zero of the savings benefiting me as a consumer, loss of low-skill jobs.
In shops with self-checkouts I do a lot more work myself to help the company save money while still paying the same price. Not sure why that's a good deal for me.

That is kinda what I meant with "I am too lazy". Using a self-checkout is quite a bit more work for me as a customer, personally - why do it when I can just go up to a normal checkout? At least in our stores, the time I could save would be minimal (if any at all).