Legion has been in-dev since TBC.

[purebalance]

Lol, I highly doubt they were thinking ahead at all, given how they completely squandered Kael'thas and Illidan so hard.

They were hardly squandered. Hell I'd sooner say Kael was since he had a bit more character to him than Illidan. "Oh man I want power because I want to impress Tyrande and damn the costs" is not deep.

[Cosmophile]

Wow. Reading this post really made me miss what WoW used to be, even moreso than I already did. Thanks for the share!

[Shiftyfish]

yup the wow story is amazing, but when that story is surrounded by 1 year of content but the expansion is 2 years long, the epic story is lost, and all you have is a bitter angry community, lets hope legion gives us story and content in equal amounts so we're not twiddling our thumbs for 12 months saying how we're all sick of this xpac and it's the worst ever.

don't really understand the logic of this, this is like saying the story of game of thrones is destroyed because there is time between seasons, or star wars story is ruined because episode 8 won't be out for some time.... or literally any episodic content that has decent lengths of time between installments can be placed into this analogy.

I get that you feel the downtime between xpacs is too long but this argument you've made here doesn't hold any water.

[purebalance]

So if Metzan is involved in Legion, are we going to see another orc centered expansion to make it four in a row?

Only WoD was SEMI orc centered, but let's keep that myth going.

First tier of Cata: Dragon, Ogre, Windlord and no real sign of Thrall or orcs in general short of TH.

Second tier: Had a single Thrall chain, but other than that it was night elf and tauren centric(druidic) with Firelands being the primary concern

Third tier: Dragon centric where Thrall only came into play with the Dragon Soul itself.

MoP first tier: Mogu, Sha, and Mantid with the only relation to the orcs being that they were a horde race.

6.1/6.2: Faction centric and really between that and 6.2 more blood elf centric if anything.

6.3: Troll centric

6.4: Orc centric to an extent.

[Golden Yak]

They've probably been setting aside 'Burning Legion specific' elements for quite a while now, building them up for the time when they'd do another Legion expansion. Not impossible that bits and pieces of notions and ideas have been stewing all this time. Recent developments in WoD and Chronicle were likely informed by all this stuff that's been waiting in the wings for the right moment.

[Irian]

Isn't this the same guy that got fired for making Warlocks massively op?

If by "massively OP" you mean "they were actually doing better than mages for once" then yeah, Xelnath was the guy. He was pretty much said to be in charge of redesigning warlocks in MoP and in that regard he made the class more fun than it had been in the game's history, as a warlock main.

But in truth he was only fired because he openly voiced his personal opinions on changes and talked intimately with the playerbase about his own investment in the class, which was pretty much against their terms. His biggest crime was actually giving a shit about the game and communicating on a real level with the playerbase here on MMO-C.

That being said, in the time when he took charge of warlock class design, the class was really balanced. It was only in SoO - well after he was fired at around patch 5.3's release - that warlocks actually became anything resembling OP at all, so you can't blame that on him.

[Deleted]

When they say thinking ahead, I think it's more like thinking ahead with the bigger picture rather than the small details like individual characters.

I believe in this as well.

Pretty interesting read, thanks OP.

[Dastreus]

Only WoD was SEMI orc centered, but let's keep that myth going.

Not a myth. Cata was about the war between horde and alliance, but almost entirely focused on the orcs as far as horde goes and human for alliance. The other races were just kind of there aside from the bit of fun Sylvanas got. Even moreso, if doing quests hordeside in 1-60 or 80-85 content, it's very apparent. The quest dialogue is written like it's meant for orcish immersion and no other races in mind. Yes the raiding was TH, but you know everything else was about that war.

MoP was extending the cata human/orc war. Then we saw a bunch of orcish shit happen and the final raid was orcs. Props where due, at least the Thunder King patch had that wicked Blood elf story, but again anything involving horde was just very "muh orc" themed.

WoD: How can you state WoD was anything BUT orc centric? Even the gear in WoD all looked orc. You can be doing quests with draenei in Shadowmoon Valley and get orcish looking garbage armor and weapons. Shit with tusks and rocks and bone strapped to spiky, primitive looking bullshit.

On the Legion bit, I was mainly joking. I've seen enough of the Legion leaks to tell if anything, it'll have a nice Kaldorei theme (finally). However, Subtlety and Assassination rogues got fucked with the look of their artifacts... and all the skins. Their daggers look again, like primitive, rocky looking garbage, regardless of what skin you use. Fuck Blizz, I stalk in the shadows, like a majestic mother fucker, and kill without being seen. I am sleek. I am not a loud mouthed brute frothing at the mouth and stabbing people with fucking sharpened rocks.

[Florena]

Not a myth. Cata was about the war between horde and alliance, but almost entirely focused on the orcs as far as horde goes and human for alliance. The other races were just kind of there aside from the bit of fun Sylvanas got. Even moreso, if doing quests hordeside in 1-60 or 80-85 content, it's very apparent. The quest dialogue is written like it's meant for orcish immersion and no other races in mind. Yes the raiding was TH, but you know everything else was about that war.

MoP was extending the cata human/orc war. Then we saw a bunch of orcish shit happen and the final raid was orcs. Props where due, at least the Thunder King patch had that wicked Blood elf story, but again anything involving horde was just very "muh orc" themed.

WoD: How can you state WoD was anything BUT orc centric? Even the gear in WoD all looked orc. You can be doing quests with draenei in Shadowmoon Valley and get orcish looking garbage armor and weapons. Shit with tusks and rocks and bone strapped to spiky, primitive looking bullshit.

On the Legion bit, I was mainly joking. I've seen enough of the Legion leaks to tell if anything, it'll have a nice Kaldorei theme (finally). However, Subtlety and Assassination rogues got fucked with the look of their artifacts... and all the skins. Their daggers look again, like primitive, rocky looking garbage, regardless of what skin you use. Fuck Blizz, I stalk in the shadows, like a majestic mother fucker, and kill without being seen. I am sleek. I am not a loud mouthed brute frothing at the mouth and stabbing people with fucking sharpened rocks.

The war this time seems to be more Worgen/Gilnease vs Forsaken than human vs orc which is a fresh change of pace, and gives the worgen and Greymane some much needed screentime. Even the horde/alliance areas in Dalaran are named for Greymane and Sylvannas and have worgen/undead guards instead of the Silver Covenant/Sunreaver angle from Wrath. Really Legion seems to have little to do with orcs in general aside from Gul'dan himself.

[WolfRider]

What are you referring to in the bolded? I can't recall most of Cataclysm as I hardly played. What was cataclysms last patch? Deathwing and the fall of the aspects?

Titan's Legacy : In Uldum there is a Titan's artifact called the forge of origination. The questlines in Uldum teach you about why Titans built it. They also reffer to the Curse of flesh used by Old Gods on guardians.
Old Gods influences : The Twilight Highlands are under Cho'Gall's attack and the dragonflights are attacked by OldGods creatures. You learn that Deathwing corrupted a new breed (the Twilight Flight in reference of the Twilight Hour, which is Old Gods' advent).
The last patch was the Dragon Soul

[Florena]

Titan's Legacy : In Uldum there is a Titan's artifact called the forge of origination. The questlines in Uldum teach you about why Titans built it. They also reffer to the Curse of flesh used by Old Gods on guardians.
Old Gods influences : The Twilight Highlands are under Cho'Gall's attack and the dragonflights are attacked by OldGods creatures. You learn that Deathwing corrupted a new breed (the Twilight Flight in reference of the Twilight Hour, which is Old Gods' advent).
The last patch was the Dragon Soul

Almost every expansion though really has expanded upon old gods. Vanilla introduced them. BC didn't really touch them outside of the Arakkoa trying to summon one, and the last boss in Arcatraz. Wrath introduced Yogg-Saron and the titan keepers in Northrend. Cataclysm you've covered, no old god appears but they had a strong presence in the overall lore. MoP introduced more old god backstory with Y'shaarj and Ra-Den etc. WoD took a break from it though, I don't recall any old god lore there. We'll see what Legion brings to the table.

[WolfRider]

Almost every expansion though really has expanded upon old gods. Vanilla introduced them. BC didn't really touch them outside of the Arakkoa trying to summon one, and the last boss in Arcatraz. Wrath introduced Yogg-Saron and the titan keepers in Northrend. Cataclysm you've covered, no old god appears but they had a strong presence in the overall lore. MoP introduced more old god backstory with Y'shaarj and Ra-Den etc. WoD took a break from it though, I don't recall any old god lore there. We'll see what Legion brings to the table.

WoD hinted some Old Gods stuff with Cho'Gall. That Ogre always shown an interest in Old Gods and the Void. That's because in WoD, Gul'dan sent him to get the wounded Naaru in Oshugun. And dying Naaru = Void = a gate to the Void Lords.

And you discover that a Titan visited Draenor, he left some artifacts in Nagrand (and probably in Ashran)

[Colmadero]

Only WoD was SEMI orc centered, but let's keep that myth going.

First tier of Cata: Dragon, Ogre, Windlord and no real sign of Thrall or orcs in general short of TH.

Second tier: Had a single Thrall chain, but other than that it was night elf and tauren centric(druidic) with Firelands being the primary concern

Third tier: Dragon centric where Thrall only came into play with the Dragon Soul itself.

MoP first tier: Mogu, Sha, and Mantid with the only relation to the orcs being that they were a horde race.

6.1/6.2: Faction centric and really between that and 6.2 more blood elf centric if anything.

6.3: Troll centric

6.4: Orc centric to an extent.

Might have gotten 6.0 and 5.0 confused there buddy.

[Deleted]

It's my headcanon that Chris Metzen wears a key around his neck.

This key opens a door on the top floor of Blizz HQ.

Beyond this door is a dark room.

Inside the dark room is a padlocked chest.

Only Metzen and Morhaime know the combination.

Inside the locked chest is a single piece of paper with coordinates written on it.

The coordinates lead to an abandoned building outside Pasadena, California.

Inside this abandoned building is a dark, winding set of stairs heading deep underground.

Deep underground is a titanium-reinforced, pressurized vault built to withstand a nuclear blast and/or the complete disintegration of the San Andreas tectonic plate.

Inside this vault is a large gold-inlaid book detailing in absolute precision the entire pre-determined list of all WoW expacs until potentially expansion 50. Alongside the book a row of USB drives containing the entirety of Vanilla WoW with each subsequent expansion alongside it. A server blade is among them, along with an urn containing the ashes of J.R.R. Tolkien, H.P. Lovecraft, Lord Dunsany, Robert E. Howard and E.R. Eddision.

Once, every BlizzCon, Metzen slips away into this most guarded of places after the opening ceremony, scoops a small handful of the ashes, cuts his finger and mixes his blood into them, then stores the mixture into a vial.

He gets on a plane and flies to England, where he slathers the mixture upon the gravestone of William Morris - father of high fantasy, on the night of a full moon.

Metzen closes his eyes, a grin overtakes his face, he turns his head upward and whispers "epic..."

I truly believe in this no h8 plz religion bashing not tolerated here.

Old badass metalhead Metzen probably did this. New tired burnedout Metzen probably doesn't.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not that surprising. When they say expansion is in development all these years, it kinda confirms they think things pretty early.

[Mehrunes]

So what's the big link between that Voidwalker and Legion again?

[Florena]

Not that surprising. When they say expansion is in development all these years, it kinda confirms they think things pretty early.

Also 'in development' doesn't necessarily mean working on the content, but could also mean brainstorming and plotting etc.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Also 'in development' doesn't necessarily mean working on the content, but could also mean brainstorming and plotting etc.

I know, I was referencing how Blizzard said we'd been working said expansion for a long time. It doesn't surprise me they had some kind of concept for Legion back then. Course I am interested what details they had at the time.

[Koryn123]

Not a myth. Cata was about the war between horde and alliance, but almost entirely focused on the orcs as far as horde goes and human for alliance. The other races were just kind of there aside from the bit of fun Sylvanas got. Even moreso, if doing quests hordeside in 1-60 or 80-85 content, it's very apparent. The quest dialogue is written like it's meant for orcish immersion and no other races in mind. Yes the raiding was TH, but you know everything else was about that war.

This. It really feels like the other races are nothing more than hostages being forced to fight for the orcs/humans just because. It's Now instead of the groups involved solving the problem amongst themselves, with a satisfying outcome, like what would happen in WC3, the conflict is started, then left hanging, then just tossed in the pile of Horde vs. Alliance, never to be explored again, and just left there to justify the other races leaving their own problems behind to help the orcs kill humans and the humans' friends, evidently in the hopes that the orcs will return the favor, which they have not, at least in the Blood Elves' cases. You'd think "crush the last vestiges of the enormous zombie army that nearly consumed the entire planet" might be a little higher on their to-do list. Or at least anywhere on the Argent Crusade's radar. I guess if the zombies are in non-contested territory, they don't care.

The Blood Elves sought help from the Horde against the Scourge in Quel'thalas, and to get to Outland. One of those is no longer needed, but the Horde doesn't seem to have devoted any support beyond what Sylvanas was already giving them before they joined.

Seems most of the Horde's races have very little to gain by being with the Horde, apart from the Alliance possibly attacking them out of spite in overwhelming numbers if they ever decided to secede from the Horde.

Cataclysm had very little for the Blood Elves. Seems Blizzard thinks that as long as the other races get two or three NPCs and a handful of quests with no meaningful outcome or follow-up, and some tents, while the rest is all orcs all the time always dragging you on their bloody campaigns, the fans of the other races will be happy.

It feels really weird to be treated as a super patriotic hero of the Horde as a Blood Elf, joining Nazgrim on the ship to Vashj'ir, to conquer Stormwind with like 5 Kor'Kron grunts, Nazgrim, and yourself.

There's really very few 80-85 Cataclysm Horde quests that feel appropriate for non-orcs, or at least non-Kalimdor Horde. Tauren and Trolls and Goblins can fit in there a little better, but a Blood Elf or Forsaken walking on that ship and doing a super salute and group hug or whatever they did, seems a little silly.

Kind of a bummer that Blizzard seems to think Horde = Orcs and their tall bovine orc, thin pale green eyed pointy eared orc, hunchback blue skinned and tusked orc, undead human shaped orc, and short pointy-eared greedy orc friends.

There's even less in the Horde for the Pandaren than there is for the Blood Elves and Forsaken.

You join the Horde with Tauren hearing about honor and stuff, then immediately are thrust into orcs blood and thunder rawr me smash kind of stuff.

[Gamevizier]

I believe there was some sort of "general concept" in their mind for a long time. but it wasn't a very detailed or polished concept, and what they did for the chronicles is that they stitched together these general concepts that they had developed over time and expanded upon them a little further.