keto diet

[Proskill]

what is the highest amount of carbs u can eat while still mantaining ketosis state ? carbs that mostly come from fruits, not grains.

would i mantain keto at 80-100g carbs per day ? i eat 4-5 apples and 2 tomatoes a day on a workout day. when its day off i lower it to 2 apples and 2 tomatoes

[Triks]

what is the highest amount of carbs u can eat while still mantaining ketosis state ? carbs that mostly come from fruits, not grains.

would i mantain keto at 80-100g carbs per day ? i eat 4-5 apples and 2 tomatoes a day on a workout day. when its day off i lower it to 2 apples and 2 tomatoes

23 grams meaning no fruit, bread, starches, etc.

[Dawon]

There are a shitload of nice things you can eat and avoid carbs... I've tried it myself a bit (never been overweight but wanted to test to skip carbs) and I can only tell you how much fresher I feel.. not as tired, no "lump in the belly" after lunch, just feeling more healthy from this.

I've taken recipes from all over the web and mostly from "lchf" (low carb high fat) sites... one that I like almost all food from is lchf.ro.. tho it's in Romanian, google translate helped me figure stuff out!

[AlphaOut]

Man, just take the plunge and go vegan. I went vegan for a fitness experiment for 63 days and I swear by it for anyone dieting for any reason. Whether it's fitness or health. The most important question is why are you dieting in the first place? What is your goal?

Anyways, after the 63 days I went back to no specific diet for the following winter. When spring came around I went back to vegan for a year. It's hard at first, wisely choosing your nutrients, but the best part about it is you don't have to limit yourself on any amount of the food you are eating, this eliminates the binge eating consequence.

The experiment i set up involved my platoon in the army when we came back from deployment and wanted to get back in shape after eating powder eggs and cardboard beef for a year. I can tell you that the results of vegan, even temporary, was incredible. Unfortunately, I love meat and especially fish, so it was a challenge

[ItachiZaku]

I did this awhile back with good results, but when I added moderate exercise to it, I had to dump it for more legit carb energy. I was getting light-headed after only 20-30 minutes of exercise and when I boosted carbs from 20-30g a day up to 80, I leveled out but that high of carbs of kicking me out of Keto, so I abandoned it completely.

[Inay]

Man, just take the plunge and go vegan. I went vegan for a fitness experiment for 63 days and I swear by it for anyone dieting for any reason. Whether it's fitness or health. The most important question is why are you dieting in the first place? What is your goal?

Anyways, after the 63 days I went back to no specific diet for the following winter. When spring came around I went back to vegan for a year. It's hard at first, wisely choosing your nutrients, but the best part about it is you don't have to limit yourself on any amount of the food you are eating, this eliminates the binge eating consequence.

The experiment i set up involved my platoon in the army when we came back from deployment and wanted to get back in shape after eating powder eggs and cardboard beef for a year. I can tell you that the results of vegan, even temporary, was incredible. Unfortunately, I love meat and especially fish, so it was a challenge

Why go vegan if you like meat and fish? There are multitude of unhealthy lean meats and fish that you can eat and get in good shape.
Honestly you can achieve your goals with multitude of different diets and something that got you specific results wouldn't be exactly same to everyone else.
In any case if the basic principle is there that you eat on deficit or surplus you will gain results eventually. Also I always thought going vegan is more about environmental statement than actual diet to get in good shape though not saying you can't go that way either.

[skitzin]

One of the worst things medicine did was tell us that fats (speciffically animal or saturated fat) was linked to heart problems. It forced us to tern to high carbs and sugars to make up the difference.They told you to eat the fruit for the vitimin C yet in the process you get a lot of sugar and you don't need that much of it.

The real key to weight loss is to control your intake of carbs. Think of crabs as sugar because that is effectively what they are.

Once your liver is full with as much carbs and sugar as it can hold then the rest goes into fat.

To combat this you can either eat less in general which cause weight loss since you will have fewer carbs in your system. Or you can switch to an alternative fuel - proteins and fats.

Keto works on this second method and it works quite well.

There are dozens of variations around but the best that worked for me is this:

Ignore breakfast. It's overrated.

Drink several hot drinks until lunch time. By this I mean hot tea or coffee. Skip the milk, sugar and sweeteners if you can.*

At lunch eat high protien food with fat. If it's a lean meat then add some. Fish for example go get some olive oil and poor it on.

More hot drinks over the afternoon.*

For dinner is where the carbs come into play. Dinner try to mix in about 60%-40% protein to carb ratio. Now those 40% carbs. Since carbs are effectively sugar it doesn't matter what they are really. You can have steak and chocolate if you want. Or you can swap out the carbs for 2 serves of vodka/gin.

Then you will find yourself getting peckish later. This is where you can eat one of the following: 50g ice cream, nuts, yogurt, a serve of fruit, cheese (remember this is high in sugar) or alternatively 2 serves of vodka/gin. If you go with the former try to retate so you only eat them once a week or so.

*-Hot drinks cause your body to spend energy to cool itself down. This means more fat gets burnt.

If needed take a multivitimin once a week. You don't to eat lots of them as your body doesn't need truck loads of them.

[Triks]

One of the worst things medicine did was tell us that fats (speciffically animal or saturated fat) was linked to heart problems. It forced us to tern to high carbs and sugars to make up the difference.They told you to eat the fruit for the vitimin C yet in the process you get a lot of sugar and you don't need that much of it.

The real key to weight loss is to control your intake of carbs. Think of crabs as sugar because that is effectively what they are.

Once your liver is full with as much carbs and sugar as it can hold then the rest goes into fat.

To combat this you can either eat less in general which cause weight loss since you will have fewer carbs in your system. Or you can switch to an alternative fuel - proteins and fats.

Keto works on this second method and it works quite well.

There are dozens of variations around but the best that worked for me is this:

Ignore breakfast. It's overrated.

Drink several hot drinks until lunch time. By this I mean hot tea or coffee. Skip the milk, sugar and sweeteners if you can.*

At lunch eat high protien food with fat. If it's a lean meat then add some. Fish for example go get some olive oil and poor it on.

More hot drinks over the afternoon.*

For dinner is where the carbs come into play. Dinner try to mix in about 60%-40% protein to carb ratio. Now those 40% carbs. Since carbs are effectively sugar it doesn't matter what they are really. You can have steak and chocolate if you want. Or you can swap out the carbs for 2 serves of vodka/gin.

Then you will find yourself getting peckish later. This is where you can eat one of the following: 50g ice cream, nuts, yogurt, a serve of fruit, cheese (remember this is high in sugar) or alternatively 2 serves of vodka/gin. If you go with the former try to retate so you only eat them once a week or so.

*-Hot drinks cause your body to spend energy to cool itself down. This means more fat gets burnt.

If needed take a multivitimin once a week. You don't to eat lots of them as your body doesn't need truck loads of them.

Oh my God this is awful and this coming from a guy that absolutely LOVES Keto for fat loss and weight maintenance. The Ketogenic is already a big enough shock for your organism when starting out and you want people to cut out breakfast? Seriously? I mean, fasted cardio is great and all but when you start out you need that feeling of satiety before your body enters ketosis, after that you will have more energy because you rely on body fat and not muscle glycogen.

But before you fully enter that stage you need to keep yourself fed. People lose weight on keto fast because they don't store glycogen anymore - this could be up to 5kg for the first 2-3 weeks - COMBINED with the already low-calorie and high-satiety nature of it. However, people have been known to collapse on that diet as in lose consciousness because they can't get the calories in needed to run a sane deficit.

[AlphaOut]

People tend to get the wrong idea about carbs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them as long as you utilize the energy they provide. For example, a big pasta for a late dinner is horrible, because you're basically just storing fat at that point. Late night carbs are where people fail, horribly. Ive consume a ton of carbs before anything strenuous, like a 12k or a hike, because it gives me the energy I need and I'm going to utilize all of it.

Secondly, don't listen to anyone who tells you to skip breakfast. It's literally your most important meal. It stimulates your metabolism for the day and starts your burning process. With that said, it's better to have 4 or 5 smaller meals per day than 3 generous portions. I eat 6 times per day when I want drop below 8% body fat.

The only time you should have a large meal is for breakfast and immediately after training. At 180lbs I eat 40-60 grams of protein and 40-80 grams of carbs. The only fats I have are generally from nuts, olive oil, and fish.

Carbs are a very mismanaged and misunderstood nutrient. Can they make you fat? Absolutely. But they are crucial to building muscle. Carbohydrates increases your insulin, which in turn forces protein into muscles and levels out testosterone levels. And you testosterone generally falls short after a workout due to too few carbs. When you don't workout, consume less carbs or you'll get fat.

One of my meal plans...

6am
10 egg whites
1.5 cups of oatmeal with protein powder in it, not a lot.
Orange juice

9am
Chicken breast
1 medium potato, sweet potato is better but I don't lIke them to much.

12pm
Protein shake
Fruit

3pm
Turkey breast
3 cups past or white rice
Grain of some sort

6pm
Ground beef, lean
Cottage cheese, no fat
Grain of some sort
Your choice of fruit, I like pears.

9pm
Protein shake

So with this, I consume over 3000 calories, over 300g or protein, over 400g of carbs, and 20g of fat.

Again, this is just an idea of a day for me. The point is, don't misunderstand carbs, when you eat, or how you eat. Because those all have a considerable impact on whatever your goal is.

[Triks]

People tend to get the wrong idea about carbs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them as long as you utilize the energy they provide. For example, a big pasta for a late dinner is horrible, because you're basically just storing fat at that point. Late night carbs are where people fail, horribly. Ive consume a ton of carbs before anything strenuous, like a 12k or a hike, because it gives me the energy I need and I'm going to utilize all of it.

Secondly, don't listen to anyone who tells you to skip breakfast. It's literally your most important meal. It stimulates your metabolism for the day and starts your burning process. With that said, it's better to have 4 or 5 smaller meals per day than 3 generous portions. I eat 6 times per day when I want drop below 8% body fat.

The only time you should have a large meal is for breakfast and immediately after training. At 180lbs I eat 40-60 grams of protein and 40-80 grams of carbs. The only fats I have are generally from nuts, olive oil, and fish.

Carbs are a very mismanaged and misunderstood nutrient. Can they make you fat? Absolutely. But they are crucial to building muscle. Carbohydrates increases your insulin, which in turn forces protein into muscles and levels out testosterone levels. And you testosterone generally falls short after a workout due to too few carbs. When you don't workout, consume less carbs or you'll get fat.

One of my meal plans...

6am
10 egg whites
1.5 cups of oatmeal with protein powder in it, not a lot.
Orange juice

9am
Chicken breast
1 medium potato, sweet potato is better but I don't lIke them to much.

12pm
Protein shake
Fruit

3pm
Turkey breast
3 cups past or white rice
Grain of some sort

6pm
Ground beef, lean
Cottage cheese, no fat
Grain of some sort
Your choice of fruit, I like pears.

9pm
Protein shake

So with this, I consume over 3000 calories, over 300g or protein, over 400g of carbs, and 20g of fat.

Again, this is just an idea of a day for me. The point is, don't misunderstand carbs, when you eat, or how you eat. Because those all have a considerable impact on whatever your goal is.

Listen to this man, he knows his shit.

[Celista]

Listen to this man, he knows his shit.

Nah. Skipping meals, frequency of meals etc does not matter at all. Also that is a crap ton of fruit, which is mostly sugar. Fruit is obviously not bad for you, but if you're on a reduced-calorie diet there are better options.

He is right that carbs are of a benefit to our bodies, as they are a cheap and fast form of energy (good for endurance exercise) and are protein-sparing.

[belfpala]

6am -- bacon and eggs, plus cheese if I already had coffee

Throughout the day -- Olives, nuts, and some grapes or berries here and there

2pm -- Greens, cheese, nuts, berries, and maybe a side of shrimp

Moving on -- more olives, nuts, grapes, and berries

8pm -- Give me a goddamn steak with some goddamn greens

Later in the night -- Vodka tonics, multiple

I'm not on a keto diet, but that works for me.

[AlphaOut]

Nah. Skipping meals, frequency of meals etc does not matter at all. Also that is a crap ton of fruit, which is mostly sugar. Fruit is obviously not bad for you, but if you're on a reduced-calorie diet there are better options.

He is right that carbs are of a benefit to our bodies, as they are a cheap and fast form of energy (good for endurance exercise) and are protein-sparing.

The idea behind eating more often is you're still eating the same amount as if you were eating 3 meals, but you portion smaller. A general serving of a 3 meal day is way more than our body can actually utilize at once, or digest properly. Therefore you store more fat. Eat smaller and more often, then your body has a steady amount of fuel throughout they day while keeping your metabolism stimulated. Its just science, and it definitely makes a difference.

As for the fruit, there's really only 2 times I eat fruit in a day, this could be 1 banana and 1 pear for example. Orange juice in the morning is just me. I like orange juice, what can I say? As for the sugar, fructose isn't bad for you in moderation. Just like anything else. Look at the times. I eat 1 fruit then in 6 hours I eat another. Then that's its for the day.

There is a ton of evidence out there that shows how large amounts of fructose is harmful to the body. However, this excludes fructose coming from fruit (not juice, whole fruit). In fact, its almost impossible to over consume fructose strictly through fruit. Fruit is digested very slowly in our bodies, which means the fructose is going to our liver at a pace in which it can filter. Another reason its good to eat something like an apple at noon is fruit tends to be extremely filling. Look what else I have at noon, just a protein shake. If you're taking 10 apples and juicing them, then later in the day taking 10 oranges and juicing them. You're going to have some health issues. Whole fruits are fine. Whether you believe they have an insane amount of sugar or not, you can't deny the fibers, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and phytonutrients they offer.

[Triks]

Nah. Skipping meals, frequency of meals etc does not matter at all. Also that is a crap ton of fruit, which is mostly sugar. Fruit is obviously not bad for you, but if you're on a reduced-calorie diet there are better options.

He is right that carbs are of a benefit to our bodies, as they are a cheap and fast form of energy (good for endurance exercise) and are protein-sparing.

About meal frequency, well let me put it this way - try going into the gym for a heavy session fasted and then try the same thing when you've had fast-acting carbs. Meal frequency matters when you need energy in a specific time-frame to optimise performance or when you need to increase calories to move up weight categories. Someone could have a problem eating 1000 kcal a meal, 3 times a day so spreading it out makes a big difference.

He is eating fruit twice a day - how is that too much?

[skitzin]

Oh my God this is awful and this coming from a guy that absolutely LOVES Keto for fat loss and weight maintenance. The Ketogenic is already a big enough shock for your organism when starting out and you want people to cut out breakfast? Seriously? I mean, fasted cardio is great and all but when you start out you need that feeling of satiety before your body enters ketosis, after that you will have more energy because you rely on body fat and not muscle glycogen.

But before you fully enter that stage you need to keep yourself fed. People lose weight on keto fast because they don't store glycogen anymore - this could be up to 5kg for the first 2-3 weeks - COMBINED with the already low-calorie and high-satiety nature of it. However, people have been known to collapse on that diet as in lose consciousness because they can't get the calories in needed to run a sane deficit.

As I clearly said that worked for me.

Secondly, don't listen to anyone who tells you to skip breakfast. It's literally your most important meal. It stimulates your metabolism for the day and starts your burning process. With that said, it's better to have 4 or 5 smaller meals per day than 3 generous portions. I eat 6 times per day when I want drop below 8% body fat.

But breakfast is pretty overrated.
It's not nearly as important as people have been lead to believe. Esspecially, when it comes to obesity management. There is plenty of evidence that suggests it has little impact on hunger at lunch time or dinner time nor does it disuade people from eating more than they should due to that hunger.

It also varies from individual to individual. Some find it helps others do not. But it is most certainly not "the most important meal of the day". Nor does it have much solid evidence to suggest it will improve weight loss.

This is because the majority of this evidence is observational. It suggests there’s a relationship — a correlation — without proving cause.

For example: It could be that people who are “healthy” for other reasons — like the fact that they work out more or benefit from a higher socioeconomic status — also eat breakfast. While those who are “unhealthy” — because they don’t exercise or live below the poverty line — skip it.

In this case, breakfast just happens to co-exist with health rather than cause it.

-----

He is eating fruit twice a day - how is that too much?

Because fructose is a pretty evil type of sugar. Your body can turn into fat pretty fast before you get the chance to actually use it.

Fructose, glucose and sucrose (which is basically a mix of fructose and glucose) are all forms of sugar but are metabolized differently.

Your body will convert these into triglycerides. In humans, triglycerides are predominantly formed in the liver, which acts like a traffic cop to coordinate the use of dietary sugars. It is the liver's job, when it encounters glucose, to decide whether the body needs to store the glucose as glycogen, burn it for energy or turn the glucose into triglycerides. When there's a lot of glucose to process, it is put aside to process later.

Unlike glucose and sucrose, fructose enters this metabolic pathway further downstream, bypassing the Liver (aka the traffic cop) and flooding the metabolic pathway. Because of this it is easy to start working against your own weight loss.

Again it's can vary individual to individual but he's right in that you have better options.

[Triks]

As I clearly said that worked for me.



But breakfast is pretty overrated.
It's not nearly as important as people have been lead to believe. Esspecially, when it comes to obesity management. There is plenty of evidence that suggests it has little impact on hunger at lunch time or dinner time nor does it disuade people from eating more than they should due to that hunger.

It also varies from individual to individual. Some find it helps others do not. But it is most certainly not "the most important meal of the day". Nor does it have much solid evidence to suggest it will improve weight loss.

This is because the majority of this evidence is observational. It suggests there’s a relationship — a correlation — without proving cause.

For example: It could be that people who are “healthy” for other reasons — like the fact that they work out more or benefit from a higher socioeconomic status — also eat breakfast. While those who are “unhealthy” — because they don’t exercise or live below the poverty line — skip it.

In this case, breakfast just happens to co-exist with health rather than cause it.

-----



Because fructose is a pretty evil type of sugar. Your body can turn into fat pretty fast before you get the chance to actually use it.

Fructose, glucose and sucrose (which is basically a mix of fructose and glucose) are all forms of sugar but are metabolized differently.

Your body will convert these into triglycerides. In humans, triglycerides are predominantly formed in the liver, which acts like a traffic cop to coordinate the use of dietary sugars. It is the liver's job, when it encounters glucose, to decide whether the body needs to store the glucose as glycogen, burn it for energy or turn the glucose into triglycerides. When there's a lot of glucose to process, it is put aside to process later.

Unlike glucose and sucrose, fructose enters this metabolic pathway further downstream, bypassing the Liver (aka the traffic cop) and flooding the metabolic pathway. Because of this it is easy to start working against your own weight loss.

Again it's can vary individual to individual but he's right in that you have better options.

Yeah no - performance athletes eat bananas and berries BEFORE STRENUOUS ACTIVITY. That's the key. The sugar from fruits is not good useful for replacing muscle glycogen - that's the job of carb sources such as brown rice, whole-wheat pasta/bread and sweet potatoes - however they are the best source of fast-releasing carbs that you can have.

[AlphaOut]

For breakfast...

You wake up with low blood sugar. Breakfast replenishes.
It kickstarts your metabolism. That's where the eat more lose more idea comes in. While this is observational to an extent, it remains true that it jump starts your metabolism.
There's plenty of research that states otherwise. A notable one is extremely high blood sugar by mid day if you skip breakfast.
Cutting caloried by skipping breakfast is just ignorance in the nutrition world.
People tend to overeat for their next meal if they skip breakfast. It's actually a hunger hormone that causes this.

As for fructose...
Your take on it is primarily from sucrose. NOT fructose from fresh fruits. Also, fructose does not bypass the liver. In fact it's entirely metabolized in it. See my previous post

I'm not here to convince anyone otherwise, we may agree to disagree and thats quite alright.

[Merkava]

I lost a ridiculous amount of weight doing an Atkins burn phase for 2 months. Before anyone says how potentially unhealthy that is, I know, and I was getting blood drawn every two weeks by my doctor, to monitor me. 70lbs in 2 months, all told.

That strikes me as extremely improbable, metabolically. That's more than a pound a day, sustained for two months. Without exercise? Sorry, but that just doesn't add up.

[belfpala]

That strikes me as extremely improbable, metabolically. That's more than a pound a day, sustained for two months. Without exercise? Sorry, but that just doesn't add up.

I'm going to agree with you. It takes about a 3500 kcal deficit to lose a pound in a day. There are other factors, of course, such as water weight.

[Endus]

That strikes me as extremely improbable, metabolically. That's more than a pound a day, sustained for two months. Without exercise? Sorry, but that just doesn't add up.

I really don't have any reason to make it up. It was outside the range of normal expectations, and I don't think I ever suggested it was something anyone could expect. Like I said; my doctor was concerned about it, too, hence the biweekly bloodwork. But I was getting healthier, if anything. I was taking a "break" and having an "eat whatever" day about once every three weeks, but other than that, I ate really well, and ketosis took care of the rest.

I'm going to agree with you. It takes about a 3500 kcal deficit to lose a pound in a day. There are other factors, of course, such as water weight.

You can't boil things down to something as simple as kcal intake. You need to track your resting metabolic rate, because you don't actually absorb all those kcals you eat, and you use up a bunch of them in regular body function. Ketosis, which is what keto diets rely on, also pretty heavily screws this stuff up (which is sort of the point of a keto diet). The entire idea is that your body becomes much more capable of burning off fat stores, while at the same time your appetite craters.

I really don't have any reason to make any of this up. I'm fully aware my experience was well outside the normal margins, but it was what it was.