Do we expect too much?

[Relapses]

Because we all know - WoD was Quality Content after waiting forever for it to come out. /s

WoD's raids were some of the best we've ever seen. And since most people equate raiding to content, I don't see how you can make that argument. That's why I mentioned ToGC as it was the one time Blizzard half-assed a raid tier while working on ICC. And as a result, it was almost universally disliked by players.

There's ample reason to argue that the sheer lack of things to do outside of raiding in WoD was an issue -- I'd agree with that. But that's something being changed in Legion so it remains to be seen whether that pans out.

[Mythbredor]

WoD's raids were some of the best we've ever seen. And since most people equate raiding to content, I don't see how you can make that argument. That's why I mentioned ToGC as it was the one time Blizzard half-assed a raid tier while working on ICC. And as a result, it was almost universally disliked by players.

There's ample reason to argue that the sheer lack of things to do outside of raiding in WoD was an issue -- I'd agree with that. But that's something being changed in Legion so it remains to be seen whether that pans out.

Dreanor flopped because of garrisons removing player interaction almost all together. I couldn't raid I play on a dead realm, can barely pvp unless I go look on other realms but I don't feel like moving realms costs a lot and I couldn't move all my characters so :/ kinda boned atm. Tanaan was a bad attempt at a new Timeless Isle. Timeless Isle didn't have flying made pvping there a whole lot more fun, also had the "Neutral Faction" item to let you attack allys was a super fun/infuriating thing I loved it.
But honestly I think Dreanor's biggest killers was, flying ruined the immersion of the zones making them feel pointless, Tanaan daily log in kill crap get ganked not very compelling gameplay, and DRUM ROLL PLEASE! Garrisons were extremely badly executed they promised us a LOT of stuff we never got, moving our garrisons to other zones, garrisons customization, a new capital city in dreanor, more compelling story lines.
We got screwed in dreanor and now a lot of people are scared of what legion has to offer being that they promised a whole lot like they did with dreanor. It's still up in the air but the beta is extremely promising.

[WowIsDead64]

Simple reason - most players grown up. When you're child, even small things can excite you. Toy car for example. But when you grow up, world starts to seem smaller and you start needed bigger things to be excited. Real car for example. All this players, who come back, when new xpack is being released, and then quit again with reason "I want Vanilla/TBC back" - they overgrown Wow. They can't, don't want to realize it or even do it principally, but they overgrown Wow. Yeah, I have a good memory and I also remember, that when I was playing Wow for the first time - it was interesting to simply run around and explore world. But this feeling disappeared pretty fast. And worst thing - is that Blizzard listen to this players. They don't take nostalgia factor into account. And via doing it, they kill game for players, who still play it. They remove flying, because they want world to be felt more like Vanilla/TBC. Yeah, it so bad, when Blizzard listen to some 40 years old streamers, no matter, how popular they are. You know... This players will never be satisfied. NEVER! No matter, how much Blizzard will degrade Wow back to Vanilla/TBC state - this players will always say "Wow isn't cake". And I'm here. I play Wow and I still enjoy it. And I state with all responsibility - WOD/Legion changes are terrible. Don't try to revive, what is dead for a long time already! Move forward!

[Schmilblick]

Justified, just look at WOD.

[Oggudrai]

The thing is, I would probably have returned to Legion if not for two things I feel aren't meeting a certain standard of quality, quality that I would expect from people getting paid to take care of that aspect of the game. The first is the writing, it was never terriffic but pre-WoD they held to that minimum basic standard of quality in my opinion. In legion I'm seeing symptoms demonstrating a similarly amateurish handling of narrative, so that's one thing.

But my biggest gripe, and kind of the least I expect, is that such a basic feature as the PC models are actually of the same quality across the board: that customization options provided in an RPG are graphically comparable. For anyone that's checked the thread in my sig, or similar threads, should be able to see why that isn't the case.

In light of that, I don't feel I'm expecting that much of WoW and its developers. Mind, these are two things that the majority don't care about, but I don't care, it's about having some pride in your craft... Especially in the case of the latter issue.

[Daralii]

If anything people don't expect enough. Blizzard effectively has infinite resources and hundreds of employees on WoW alone, and yet messes like the current situation happen. They happen because they know they can get away with it.

[Vaelorian]

Probably because gamers seek greatness, and they feel that WoW has failed them, when the truth is that they failed themselves. Also nostalgia and selective memory... it's not the game they thought they enjoyed anymore.

precisely, we failed ourselves. I mean why would I want to have more meaningful "difficult" leveling experience? Why would I want to have more difficult dungeons from level 1 to maxlevel and at the end game? Why would I want a world where people know eachother? Why would I want to be entertained as I used to be back in the day for 100% of my online time instead of already being done after 45 min currently? Why? Well we failed ourselves. I am nostalgic and have a selective memory.

Kidding aside... the game changed, I did not. Should I quit? I already quit. Would I come back when things would be better? Yes I would.

[Cannibalus]

precisely, we failed ourselves. I mean why would I want to have more meaningful "difficult" leveling experience? Why would I want to have more difficult dungeons from level 1 to maxlevel and at the end game? Why would I want a world where people know eachother? Why would I want to be entertained as I used to be back in the day for 100% of my online time instead of already being done after 45 min currently? Why? Well we failed ourselves. I am nostalgic and have a selective memory.

Kidding aside... the game changed, I did not. Should I quit? I already quit. Would I come back when things would be better? Yes I would.

I mean why would I want to have more meaningful "difficult" leveling experience?

You can, just don't use heirlooms, even though everyone else does, so they cater to the majority.

Why would I want to have more difficult dungeons from level 1 to maxlevel and at the end game?

The majority doesn't want them hard, they just want them fast. We had challenge modes and in Legion we'll have dungeon progression.

Why would I want a world where people know eachother?

I have almost capped my 200 real id friends and i know a lot of people with which i do meaningful activities and fool around from time to time. They are all great players that i've encountered through my wow life, some of them have been friends from my day 1. Your problem is that nowadays no one has to kiss ass, you force them to do what they don't want to they say "fuck off" in your face, you kick them, they will find another guild and laugh about you with their new friends. No one is a "god" anymore as opposed to vanilla/BC where people had to ass-kiss like there was no tomorrow just because content wasn't hard and you could master it with 4 main buttons and an ordinary mouse. A good comparison would be random chicks singing, becoming stars overnight, not because they are talented singers but because they are talented with their mouth, pussy and ass.

Why would I want to be entertained as I used to be back in the day for 100% of my online time instead of already being done after 45 min currently?

I remember this one time when i had 5 hours of free time and i tried to make a pug (this happened in WOTLK mind you when it was better) for Ulduar 25. I spent almost 3 hours making the group, people taking friends in, me inspecting them at Dalaran south bank, all good. So after we killed the 1st boss, we wiped on Razorscale twice and ~ 10 people left. I tried for the next 30 mins to get people in, i got 1 in, 2 left so hey, fuck it i said. I know these things can happen and i know that they happened a lot back in vanilla/BC or even worse, you would make a group for 5 hours only to wipe for 2 until deciding that you can't kill a certain boss. If you are a masochist, go ahead, i've personally had it and so i've been in good guilds constantly since the end of WOTLK and the only pugs i've ever done were for achievement/x-mog/fun runs.

Well we failed ourselves. I am nostalgic and have a selective memory.

Cut the sarcasm and look at the problem as it really is. People playing a game, any game don't instantly think "oh a game that lets me min-max and play with math and numbers oh boy i didn't have enough of that in school", they think at a game as a "way to greatness", just like those guys and gals in the game trailers, they wanna smash walls and slay powerful creatures and stand on a pile of skulls and be awesome. We all know greatness can be better achieved in single-player games, but ye it's better to have real people cheering at you, only most of the time real people tend to be toxic and call you a noob, even though it's not your fault, people tend to get geared from HFC HC by buying a boost and brag in your face about their dps. Ah well, it's good that you quit, son, because today you're either going big (Mythic raiding) or going home, i guess you went home.

[Deleted]

WoD's raids were some of the best we've ever seen. And since most people equate raiding to content, I don't see how you can make that argument. That's why I mentioned ToGC as it was the one time Blizzard half-assed a raid tier while working on ICC. And as a result, it was almost universally disliked by players.

There's ample reason to argue that the sheer lack of things to do outside of raiding in WoD was an issue -- I'd agree with that. But that's something being changed in Legion so it remains to be seen whether that pans out.

SOME WoD bosses were good, 50% of them were utter trash - especially a few in HFC. And the new loot rules (ilvl ramping, secondary stat values) ruined HFC alone already, making half of the raid instance useless after 3 months.

[Relapses]

SOME WoD bosses were good, 50% of them were utter trash - especially a few in HFC. And the new loot rules (ilvl ramping, secondary stat values) ruined HFC alone already, making half of the raid instance useless after 3 months.

I'll agree that the ilvl ramping was kind of silly, I'm hoping Blizzard learned from that. As for boss design, I personally only truly disliked HFA and Iskar on Mythic difficulty and both mostly because they felt like little more than glorified trash packs.

[clevin]

Why not just play FFXIV then? Instead of stressing over the game you find disappointing?

I think you touched on this in your OP - people have invested time and effort into WoW. Getting into a new MMO is a project - you have to learn the lore, systems, find a place in the community etc. WoW, if you've played it for years, is home.

Should people be less freaked out and dramatic about it? Yeah, but some of that feeling is the medium we're using. Text on a page doesn't carry the same nuance and back and forth that we'd have if a few of us were talking WoW over some beers.

Should people be satisfied? Eh. The big issues I see are the year long dead times at the end of expansions - it feels off for Blizzard to say "we can't do content to fill that time AND an expansion" when a) others do and b) Blizzard *is* the home of the most successful MMO ever. The other big issue I see is that they don't always seem to explain major decisions well and fall back on 'the team feels...' too much. The classic example here is flight.

I do think people need to realize that, as Watcher noted recently, there are a lot of subsets of players and if the game does something for a subset you're not in it might feel like a waste but that no player = all players.

[Bathory]

I don't think we expect too much, but I do think there's not enough organization/consensus to speak up for the things we DO want. It falls to a yelling match and insults, calling for devs to get fired rather than having the conversation.

And it always feels like, at least to me, that most requests are unobtainable, uneducated, or just emotionally charged. "Transmog is destroying WoW!" "Remove LFR and 12million subs will return!"