Not enough Raiders in Trion Rift - Raids nerfed 50% ???

[Thes]

The people who keep asking for raid attunements have no idea what a massive pain in the neck they really are!).

It's not like people who ask for them did not complete them . I still use my Hand o' adal.

And I was wearing rare weapon and a rare trinket for quite some time even though I already had slain bosses like Archimonde, so there was a reason to go run something like Karazhan and SSC/TK while attuning people up. Gear wasn't handed so freely back then (or I was just super unlucky), so the content didn't get outdated as fast as it does now.

At the same time raids weren't tuned for cutting edge gear, so it was not as bad as it would be now.

Catchup badges were cool, but still quite a grind.

[Eleccybubb]

Never fear, folks, Trion have introduced the ultimate Raid Gear "catch-up" mechanism:

Six guilds (worldwide) have cleared T3, time to sell T3 gear!

Only US$300! Discount for Patrons, only US$270!

So much for never selling current gear........

[theWocky]

"On F2P, one of their spokesman (Daglar) assured players that they would never remove features from veterans. They did."

I do remember them saying this. I am pretty sure I am considered a veteran, as I played vanilla Rift. I no longer have the ability to que for specific dungeons, so they have taken something away from me. However, if you buy the most recent DLCs and pay for Patron, how is it any different from how it was before the F2P transition? I am genuinely curious here as I am sure there are multiple differences I am just not seeing yet.

I also bought every edition as a collectors pack, Telara + SL.

When F2P first launched - what was different to now?:

* 50% reduced Auction House fees and commissions (this is what it used to be prior to some stupid excuse a few months ago that the Auction House was lagging the game, so they would up the AH fees) - suddenly, it's introduced as a patron/subscriber "feature"
Original complaint of lag: http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...ag-freeze.html

* You could actually make money selling artifacts. Trion realized how lucrative this was and gave EVERY person an artifact on login each day - flooding the (laggy) auction house. Ironically, it was speculated that artifacts were the cause of auction house lag in the first place.

In addition to these new bonuses, the following convenience perks are now exclusive to our Patrons: (removed from F2P veterans)
- stacking charges for Dungeons, Warfonts, and Instant Adventures
- accumulating rest experience
- queuing for specific Warfronts and Dungeons

So, yup - all things taken away.
Look at all the happy positive folk in this thread: http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...en-better.html

Also, don't bother using a Recruit-a-Friend Code to try earn REX - that's gone too.
More happy fans here: http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...ral-coins.html

Lets not even get into the crafting P2W and minion fiasco. BiS essences crafting mats locked behind RNG in "credit only" minion adventures.

Then the grind and lockboxes - it's simply just a no-brainer that the grind is deliberately so insane and there is a feeling of a deliberate attempt to frustrate with RNG behind everything to just buy every damn upgrade item component you need off the auction house.

While you're at it, check out how many people are OFF-LINE in those two threads (grey icon) on the forums and just haven't bothered coming back - check their activity.

[stomination]

Please, tell me more about how difficult content keeps players engaged, satisfied and subscribed.

Lfr isn't keeping me subbed.

[alturic]

[I]While you're at it, check out how many people are OFF-LINE in those two threads (grey icon) on the forums and just haven't bothered coming back - check their activity.

I have to admit, I love your anti-Trion stance and the other guys pro-Trion stance, but this is taking it a little fucking dumb now. You do know how the Online and Offline system works on forums, right? You do know it has zero to do with them actually playing the game (actually, if they were playing the game they would be Offline) and whether or not they are Online in regards to the forum, right?

[theWocky]

I have to admit, I love your anti-Trion stance and the other guys pro-Trion stance, but this is taking it a little fucking dumb now. You do know how the Online and Offline system works on forums, right? You do know it has zero to do with them actually playing the game (actually, if they were playing the game they would be Offline) and whether or not they are Online in regards to the forum, right?

He He. I am happy to entertain.

However, what I was "actually" pointing out that a lot of those forum posters haven't bothered commenting since 2015 after being regularly active on the forums. Online does not post as activity, only comments and likes do. Yes, obviously if you're logged in, you're online. My point was they haven't been back. They're gone.

[justinhalfout]

He He. I am happy to entertain.

However, what I was "actually" pointing out that a lot of those forum posters haven't bothered commenting since 2015 after being regularly active on the forums. Online does not post as activity, only comments and likes do. Yes, obviously if you're logged in, you're online. My point was they haven't been back. They're gone.

They've probably all been banned

[Eleccybubb]

They've probably all been banned

Don't worry they probably voiced they concerns on reddit... oh wait.

[alturic]

He He. I am happy to entertain.

However, what I was "actually" pointing out that a lot of those forum posters haven't bothered commenting since 2015 after being regularly active on the forums. Online does not post as activity, only comments and likes do. Yes, obviously if you're logged in, you're online. My point was they haven't been back. They're gone.

Wrong. "Online" is when someone is logged into the forum. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. If you don't mind me asking (haven't logged in since re-downloading Rift heh) what's your current game of choice?

[Slipmat]

Six guilds (worldwide) have cleared T3, time to sell T3 gear

You do know that what you can now buy in the Store is not BiS gear right? to upgrade it to Relic BiS gear you need **gasp** upgrade items which only **double gasp** drop from the new raid, imagine that, to get the best gear in the game you have to raid and earn it

[Edge-]

You do know that what you can now buy in the Store is not BiS gear right? to upgrade it to Relic BiS gear you need **gasp** upgrade items which only **double gasp** drop from the new raid, imagine that, to get the best gear in the game you have to raid and earn it

Have there been more than 3 tiers in the past, though? I feel like I remember 3 in chocolate/SL, so them adding in a 4th now that the gear is monetized like this can definitely be viewed on as a bit suspect. Especially with so few guilds actually clearing the content.

The cynic in me can't help but look at this as more of a move to drive more monetization in an environment where folks aren't spending much time raiding as it is.

I mean, it doesn't impact me as I don't raid, and the price reductions for older tiers for IGC are nice. But it doesn't really look good for the game : /

[Lathais]

You do know that what you can now buy in the Store is not BiS gear right? to upgrade it to Relic BiS gear you need **gasp** upgrade items which only **double gasp** drop from the new raid, imagine that, to get the best gear in the game you have to raid and earn it

I still think it's insane that you cen buy even the 2nd BiS gear, even if it was the 3rd BiS, that's crazy. It's one thing to offer the World gear, or gear to get you in to the first stage of raiding a bit easier, or when only the first tier is out to get you IN to Experts, but offering the 2nd BiS gear there for sale is just really really odd to me. Especially when I am pretty sure I remember them saying that gear with stats will never be for sale, only cosmetics.

[justinhalfout]

You do know that what you can now buy in the Store is not BiS gear right? to upgrade it to Relic BiS gear you need **gasp** upgrade items which only **double gasp** drop from the new raid, imagine that, to get the best gear in the game you have to raid and earn it

Dosen't matter,you can still pay real money to have a rather big advantage over someone who can't afford it,which equals to pay to win.

I'd be fine with the store overall if gear,upgrade parts and crafting materials were not sold for real money and everyone had to grind it out the same way,but for as long as one can shortcut "grinds" by opening their wallet hence giving them a clear advantage over those who play the traditional way,some people will perceive the game as "pay to win".

[alturic]

You do know that what you can now buy in the Store is not BiS gear right? to upgrade it to Relic BiS gear you need **gasp** upgrade items which only **double gasp** drop from the new raid, imagine that, to get the best gear in the game you have to raid and earn it

For all intents and purposes, to the majority of the player-base they don't care if it's super-duper-uber BEST IN SLOT gear. It's still sad to see current tier gear being able to get purchased in a game. Wait wait wait, does this really mean I can literally hit 65 and buy T3 gear and be raid-ready?

- - - Updated - - -

Dosen't matter,you can still pay real money to have a rather big advantage over someone who can't afford it,which equals to pay to win.

I'd be fine with the store overall if gear,upgrade parts and crafting materials were not sold for real money and everyone had to grind it out the same way,but for as long as one can shortcut "grinds" by opening their wallet hence giving them a clear advantage over those who play the traditional way,some people will perceive the game as "pay to win".

Let's be completely honest here - this Slipmat guy that is definitely (and I just joined this thread yesterday and see it) pro-Trion nothing you can say will change his mind - but there is literally no way to NOT call the store P2W, it is LITERALLY the epitome of "Pay to Win". When you can buy current tier gear, crafting materials, upgrade parts(?) on a cash-shop. The game has devolved from a "F2P game with simple items" to "F2P game with everything purchasable for real money". I digress though, it's not full BiS gear, which again, the majority of players will not have the need for nor care if they had.

[Eleccybubb]

You do know that what you can now buy in the Store is not BiS gear right? to upgrade it to Relic BiS gear you need **gasp** upgrade items which only **double gasp** drop from the new raid, imagine that, to get the best gear in the game you have to raid and earn it

Trying to justify pay to win. Just hilarious.

[Edge-]

Dosen't matter,you can still pay real money to have a rather big advantage over someone who can't afford it,which equals to pay to win.

No it doesn't. Pay to win literally means being able to pay to get power that can't be earned in-game. Buying the second best PvE gear gives you a leg up on getting into current tier raiding, but you still need to be good enough to clear current tier raids to get the best gear.

The earring slots/PWW are more P2W than this, mostly because this isn't P2W at all.

[alturic]

No it doesn't. Pay to win literally means being able to pay to get power that can't be earned in-game. Buying the second best PvE gear gives you a leg up on getting into current tier raiding, but you still need to be good enough to clear current tier raids to get the best gear.

The earring slots/PWW are more P2W than this, mostly because this isn't P2W at all.

I'm pretty sure most "gamers" consider anything except cosmetic items, mounts, pets, "boost" potions, etc to be "pay to win". As soon as actual "gear" comes on shops. The game is a laughing stock for the majority of gamers. Rift is definitely a P2W game, you even said it is, all the while saying justinhalfout was wrong about it being P2W.

[justinhalfout]

No it doesn't. Pay to win literally means being able to pay to get power that can't be earned in-game. Buying the second best PvE gear gives you a leg up on getting into current tier raiding, but you still need to be good enough to clear current tier raids to get the best gear.

The earring slots/PWW are more P2W than this, mostly because this isn't P2W at all.

As I said before it's quite subjective what people refer to as P2W or not,in my opinion it is,sorry.

[Edge-]

I'm pretty sure most "gamers" consider anything except cosmetic items, mounts, pets, "boost" potions, etc to be "pay to win".

Actually, most folks using the term nowadays (in my experience) have never played one of the games that spawned the term, so they use all kinds of personal definitions. Sell desirable cosmetics in cash shop only? P2W! Sell experience boosts? P2W!!! Sell high level characters? P2W!!! etc.

P2W originated from the Korean imports that legitimately sold items and buffs through the cash shop that were more powerful than anything that could be obtained in-game. It's still a practice that's in-place in many games in Korea/China and it makes them a ton of money.

As soon as actual "gear" comes on shops. The game is a laughing stock for the majority of gamers. Rift is definitely a P2W game, you even said it is, all the while saying justinhalfout was wrong about it being P2W.

LOTRO introduced gear long ago, and Rift has had gear in its cash shop since day one. LOTRO gear was mid-level stuff, and most of Rift's gear spread across all levels.

Rift dipped its toes over the line with P2W when they removed the earrings/PWW from void stones, but it's still far from full on P2W.

As I said before it's quite subjective what people refer to as P2W or not,in my opinion it is,sorry.

See, this is an issue, though. Because if the definition is so wildly subjective then it's extremely difficult to have any meaningful discussions around it : /

[alturic]

Actually, most folks using the term nowadays (in my experience) have never played one of the games that spawned the term, so they use all kinds of personal definitions. Sell desirable cosmetics in cash shop only? P2W! Sell experience boosts? P2W!!! Sell high level characters? P2W!!! etc.

P2W originated from the Korean imports that legitimately sold items and buffs through the cash shop that were more powerful than anything that could be obtained in-game. It's still a practice that's in-place in many games in Korea/China and it makes them a ton of money.



LOTRO introduced gear long ago, and Rift has had gear in its cash shop since day one. LOTRO gear was mid-level stuff, and most of Rift's gear spread across all levels.

Rift dipped its toes over the line with P2W when they removed the earrings/PWW from void stones, but it's still far from full on P2W.



See, this is an issue, though. Because if the definition is so wildly subjective then it's extremely difficult to have any meaningful discussions around it : /

Sell desirable cosmetics in cash shop only? P2W! - Nope.
Sell experience boosts? P2W! - Nope, close though just because XP boosts are usually really nice, ha.
Sell high level characters? P2W!!! - HELL YEA! :P

I know, not your definition.

As for the second quote of mine, I didn't know there was certain "levels" of P2W now. Almost all of the gamers on here (anedoctal obviously) seem to all agree that gear, actual leveled toons, etc are considered P2W.

I'm curious though, based on YOUR definition of P2W and how Rift is "far from full on P2W", what is a "low-grade" P2W game and a "high-grade" P2W game? See? It's extremely silly trying to put "levels" on how P2W something is. It either is, or isn't. Rift is, and while our reasoning for why it's P2W is different, you even stated that it is. That's all these last few back and forths were over. =D