The change that will make me quit

[Tetramental]

People wanted vanilla. Couldnt change talents unless you respeced at your trainer.

[Maltore]

I'm... a bit confused. I (and my entire guild) have never needed to do this, and we've progress through pretty much all the heroic raid content. Nor do I know any guilds that were better than us having to do this.

Again, is this some niche/mythic thing? I feel like people are overreacting.

You never switch talents to perform better for a given encounter? You certainly can go about it this way, but you're potentially doing yourself a disservice.

I don't know how it is for all classes, but it's a staggering difference for warriors. As an easy example, if you don't spec Bladestorm on HFA or Xhul, you're losing out on a massive amount of damage. But if you stay with Bladestorm on the next boss, Iron Reaver, you pretty much have a useless talent selected. It's not a trivial difference.

[chazus]

You never switch talents to perform better for a given encounter? You certainly can go about it this way, but you're potentially doing yourself a disservice.

I mean, I totally understand min/maxing and getting the 'best' out of each encounter and spec... But when you progress normally without a hitch, it seems a bit pointless. I don't see the point of min/maxing that stuff and getting the best when, by not doing so, no problems are present. Just doesn't seem like something to worry over, let alone get upset about.

[Maltore]

I mean, I totally understand min/maxing and getting the 'best' out of each encounter and spec... But when you progress normally without a hitch, it seems a bit pointless. I don't see the point of min/maxing that stuff and getting the best when, by not doing so, no problems are present. Just doesn't seem like something to worry over, let alone get upset about.

I'm not a mythic raider, but I enjoying getting the most out of my character that I can. It's just a matter of personal preference, I guess.

But you're right, people are overreacting to the issue (even Blizzard).

[RedGamer030]

Another whine thread about this change from players who have zero idea how it will impact... Welcome to the MMO-Champion forums...

[Grumpy Old Man]

There will be an item from inscription that lets the entire raid change talents for a time. And I see people talking like if this item will cost hundreds of gold, but we have no solid info about it yet.
Let's say it will cost 100g. I'm not in beta, but I see people saying that they can earn that amount with some quests. So, in this scenario, no sky is falling.
Better yet: raiding guilds will probably have stacks of that item, and people with inscription to provide them.
As with any change, there will be always people who doesn't like change, but this particular one isn't worth all the negativity I'm reading IMHO.

[Murlocbait]

I'm... a bit confused. I (and my entire guild) have never needed to do this, and we've progress through pretty much all the heroic raid content. Nor do I know any guilds that were better than us having to do this.

Again, is this some niche/mythic thing? I feel like people are overreacting.

If you play a warrior and don't swap out talents between bosses, then you are out of your mind. It might not impact every class and role equally - in fact, I'm sure it doesn't - but I don't know of any DPS warriors who stick with the same talents across every boss in a raid. I'm not talking about Mythic or people trying to get the top spot on WL, I mean casual players. I've never even set foot in a mythic raid, but if I took the same talents, for example, going from Hans/Franz to Darmac or Thogar (and yes I know that's BRF, just giving example), I'd be shooting myself in the foot. I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to get the best performance they can out of their play. It's like not pre-potting or skipping a Feast prior to pull.

A lot of casual players ALSO want to play as well as they can in a raid, especially with friends and guildies.

Edit to avoid double post:

There will be an item from inscription that lets the entire raid change talents for a time. And I see people talking like if this item will cost hundreds of gold, but we have no solid info about it yet.
Let's say it will cost 100g. I'm not in beta, but I see people saying that they can earn that amount with some quests. So, in this scenario, no sky is falling.
Better yet: raiding guilds will probably have stacks of that item, and people with inscription to provide them.
As with any change, there will be always people who doesn't like change, but this particular one isn't worth all the negativity I'm reading IMHO.

From the announcement:
"But, in terms of the materials required, we're thinking of something that's more aimed at groups, and probably not the sort of thing an individual is likely to carry a stack of and use freely."
So that suggests they want it to be cost-prohibitive. If it's not, and something that we'll all have stacks of 20 in our bags, then what's the point? Either it IS meant to be restrictive, and therefore is not something we'll have stacks of (which seems to be what they want), or it's NOT meant to be that way, in which case it serves no purpose.

[Grumpy Old Man]

From the announcement:
"But, in terms of the materials required, we're thinking of something that's more aimed at groups, and probably not the sort of thing an individual is likely to carry a stack of and use freely."
So that suggests they want it to be cost-prohibitive. If it's not, and something that we'll all have stacks of 20 in our bags, then what's the point? Either it IS meant to be restrictive, and therefore is not something we'll have stacks of (which seems to be what they want), or it's NOT meant to be that way, in which case it serves no purpose.

That depends on how much 'cost-prohibitive' means. I know that several members of my guild are sat atop piles of gold ATM, including myself.
Granted, the rest of the playerbase may not be in that situation, but organized guilds probably have access to much bigger amounts of gold.

And even if the final cost ends up being REALLY high, or time-consuming to craft or something else, and not being able to change talents without going to town becomes the norm - even so I don't see that as a reason to quit the game. Not as a *sole* reason anyways. But again, that's IMHO.

EDIT: also, I feel I must add to my comment that I don't like the idea very much; I just don't see it as a reason to quit.
AND, these comments I found on the Legion shadow priest thread sums up part of my opinion:

Or you could just pick the talents that you think are fun and use those. Might be the idea behind it.

The problem with the talent swap direction is that it has serious problems with it in how they suggest. The heart of the idea isn't terrible imo, but the execution has serious flaws.

That's pretty much Blizzard in a nutshell.

[Murlocbait]

And even if the final cost ends up being REALLY high, or time-consuming to craft or something else, and not being able to change talents without going to town becomes the norm - even so I don't see that as a reason to quit the game. Not as a *sole* reason anyways. But again, that's IMHO.

I don't think anyone woke up this morning loving WoW, saw these changes, and then started screaming, shaved off their hair, burned their Blizz merch in a bonfire, and quit the game forever. There are, however, plenty of people playing WoW who don't like some of the changes coming in Legion. There is a line for each player regarding how many things you don't like that it takes to overwhelm the things that still keep you engaged and playing the game. For each new shitty idea Blizz dumps onto the game, it pushes a lot of people closer and closer to that line. Considering WoW's subs at the moment, players don't need more reasons to want to stop playing - and anyone who actually gives two shits about enjoying WoW and wanting it to continue to be a thriving MMO should sure as shit not want more players to leave.

[Beardyface]

I don't think anyone woke up this morning loving WoW, saw these changes, and then started screaming, shaved off their hair, burned their Blizz merch in a bonfire, and quit the game forever. There are, however, plenty of people playing WoW who don't like some of the changes coming in Legion. There is a line for each player regarding how many things you don't like that it takes to overwhelm the things that still keep you engaged and playing the game. For each new shitty idea Blizz dumps onto the game, it pushes a lot of people closer and closer to that line. Considering WoW's subs at the moment, players don't need more reasons to want to stop playing - and anyone who actually gives two shits about enjoying WoW and wanting it to continue to be a thriving MMO should sure as shit not want more players to leave.

No, absolutely not. But when you pick an MMO to stick with, you want to gauge the devs. They're going to be the source of all your fun or lack thereof. This change is just the last in a long line of unbelievably stupid changes that started with WoD Arms. They keep saying these are the same devs that we had in MoP or earlier, but if that's true, they simultaneously and collectively lost their minds during the WoD beta.

I suppose I should have named the thread "the straw that broke the camel's back."

Also, since people don't like reading, I'll re-post this again:

It's a real shame - the content in this expansion looks really fun. I was really looking forward to Mythic+, but how much fun will that be if you have to drop a tome 5 times when you're fighting a timer?

Now that the class I main has a stupid artifact ability, has little control over their resource generation, and generates less resources the more I gear up within a tier, I'm really starting to wonder why I even bother.

It's less the change itself and more the fact that this, coupled with a hundred other ham-fisted, pants-on-head stupid decisions, is proof that these guys have absolutely no clue what they're doing.

[Deleted]

they're wasting so much time 'reshaping the queue line' and asking customers to orientate their tickets instead of making sure the event is awesome. metaphorically.

i don't know why they don't employ someone to go round with a super-soaker and drench anyone who pisses around with something that doesn't increase or amplify the levels of fun in the game.

maybe it's because they're really mathy... and they don't really understand what fun is... or think fun is some sort of spell-building equation that, when solved, spells out 'boobies' on a calculator...

there was nothing wrong with tomes... there IS nothing wrong with tomes. you have to buy them. if blizzard needs to, make them cost 2g each or 5g each and 'force' (ulgh) people to think (ulgh) about their talents more carefully.... at the start of every single fight.

... or, you know... blizzard could NOT be such knobshites in the first place and actually give classes talent rows that are comparable and thus don't make or break various fights if the wrong one is taken. picking wrecking ball instead of bladestorm for an aoe fight my not be ideal for the burst phase, but at least you got aoe--so that you're not left in the dark.... whereas their dogshit grouping of i.e. Inner Rage and Meat Grinder almost certainly means that the decision taken on the talent is all or nothing. MG is the right choice, IR is cancer.

anyway, i digress... but you tend to when one problem chains to another, and another, and another...

thankfully they're doing some things right. fury seems great

[Sethanor]

or you know, they could design classes so that talents dont enable your rotation and you can just pick a STYLE and stick with it...

the current talent system is bullshit and this new restriction is the arrow to the knee!
i love how most people dont see the problem, cause they either dont have to worry about it currently in wod (cause not all classes have to swap talents all the time already like warriors) or the just dont give a shit.

but shit is gonna hit the fan, when people realize that EVERY class will have gameplay enabeling talents that have to be swapped around to not be bottom of the pole.

or maybe there are just too many people that are too lazy or dont care in the first place ... but then i dont understand why they WANT this change, cause it wont do anything for them anyway...

*ugh* this is ... stupid

[Murlocbait]

i love how most people dont see the problem, cause they either dont have to worry about it currently in wod (cause not all classes have to swap talents all the time already like warriors)

I think this is mostly it. A lot of people don't really have much capacity for abstract thought, so they don't see how all the pieces come together in something they are not actively doing. Warriors in WoD were basically a preview of how all/most classes would go in Legion - we got the "class fantasy" line back in WoD development, before it was applied to everyone else. We got our talents scattered in a ways that made optimal, hell even DECENT, play require changing at least one or two talents between every fight. Warriors have been putting up with this shit for 2 years already, so it's not abstract to us. We already know how it works. I think a lot of people haven't had to deal with this yet, and don't realize how shitty it is going to be in Legion.

[Leyl]

I think this is mostly it. A lot of people don't really have much capacity for abstract thought, so they don't see how all the pieces come together in something they are not actively doing. Warriors in WoD were basically a preview of how all/most classes would go in Legion - we got the "class fantasy" line back in WoD development, before it was applied to everyone else. We got our talents scattered in a ways that made optimal, hell even DECENT, play require changing at least one or two talents between every fight. Warriors have been putting up with this shit for 2 years already, so it's not abstract to us. We already know how it works. I think a lot of people haven't had to deal with this yet, and don't realize how shitty it is going to be in Legion.

I think the main problem is that they went with an idea that certain entire SPECS for most classes would have to be swapped entirely to do well on fights. Now, they have changed up that thinking to talents instead, and have went with this talent swapping nightmare. Warlocks, as an example, didn't really swap talents; they swapped entire specs to either do AOE or ST DPS. Now, it will be talent based, shifting play styles isn't that big a deal in this regard b/c as a different entire spec you're already playing entirely differently. The same would go for rogues too.

So we're shifting from spec swapping to talent swapping, and the spec swapping cost no reagents or visit to town, but this talent swapping will. I think they wisest thing to do, as stated before, will be to just put a 30s CD on swapping a talent.

[Deleted]

It's true though, being able to just switch talents on the fly ruins the meaning of talents, since you'll always be optimized for the best results depending on the situation. This is not how talents should be.. However, this is not the correct way of solving this issue. Talents should be toned down so you can afford to be specced suboptimally for a fight. Some classes rely too much on their talents (see paladins) and having the "wrong" talents can completely make or break your single target or aoe, which is awful design.

Please fix the talent system or remove it all together. If there's no meaningful investment being made you might as well have the talents baseline.

[Murlocbait]

I think they wisest thing to do, as stated before, will be to just put a 30s CD on swapping a talent.

I don't see a need for ANY restriction on it beyond being out of combat. In 2016 WoW, with the design we've been given for talents and raids, it just serves no purpose other than to frustrate and annoy the players.

[Leyl]

I don't see a need for ANY restriction on it beyond being out of combat. In 2016 WoW, with the design we've been given for talents and raids, it just serves no purpose other than to frustrate and annoy the players.

I can see your point, at this juncture, I'd say I'd agree. I just am looking at designers, their ego, and their feelings and going "it is their game, we just play it" kind of advocate. I am upset at the below item being added. As you can see, this is not going to be cheaply issued. 100 pigment. 200 parchment. 10 of the rare pigment.

http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/226248-...sharpened-mind

This is a fucking debacle on steroids and I'm watching it happen. This is probably the worst idea I've seen.

[Archimtiros]

As you can see, this is not going to be cheaply issued. 100 pigment. 200 parchment. 10 of the rare pigment.

http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/226248-...sharpened-mind

This is a fucking debacle on steroids and I'm watching it happen. This is probably the worst idea I've seen.

Like I've said before, it'll be expensive to start, sure, but they'll quickly go the way of feasts. Before long each player will have a half-dozen stacks of their own, and will be throwing them down arbitrarily to write their names between bosses.

Definitely not worth freaking out about.

[craftyard]

It was never intended for you to switch talents to suit the needs of individual boss fights anyway. I personally never need to switch talents - in fact, I've been using the same talents since the beginning of WoD.

They design bosses in raids and dungeons that require us to change our talents to perform optimally,

Well it looks like you'll just have to adapt to the changes that are inevitably made every time a new expansion is released. I don't buy that this is so big of an issue that people will literally quit the game over it. Sounds like you're making a mountain out of a mole-hill.

And if you really are leaving because of this, you probably weren't planning on sticking around for much longer anyway.

tl;dr, people quit for silly reasons all the time. This is no different.

[TheValkyrie]

It was never intended for you to switch talents to suit the needs of individual boss fights anyway. I personally never need to switch talents - in fact, I've been using the same talents since the beginning of WoD.

What.

/10char