1. #5521
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Why was it put back in....go on? Should I circle it in crayons for you?

    Flying is a big part of the WoW experience always has been and always will be. It is not just for convenience but also the fun aspect of exploration.
    Why was it put back in? That is the speculation bit on your part.

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    Exploration is a big part of an MMO - It's part of the experience that makes your jaw drop when you first walk through The Dark Portal, or when the boat sails you into Northrend between the Cliffs in Howling Fjord. Getting that experience, and feeling small in a MMO is vital, and the introduction of Flying Mounts was, for me, a convenience, but subtracted from the Game.

    I agree, I can use a Ground Mount if I want too, and I do from time to time, I also use a lot of Flight Paths because I like the view and feel of passing through the environment, but getting a birds eye view for everything diminishes greatly the beauty of the world, the sense of scale is destroyed and the convenience becomes a chore.

  2. #5522
    Quote Originally Posted by Twaster View Post
    I'm honestly curious. Besides the knee-jerk reaction of "They're taking away my mount!" why is it a huge, game breaking deal? I want to know for everyone who is wanting to quit over it: Why? What is so immensely fun about flying that you couldn't possibly play the game without it? Forget the fact that you paid for any mounts, the time you spent getting them, etc. Just tell me why it's a game-breaking deal?

    The reason I say don't think about what you paid and spent getting the mounts since you can still use and show them off in old-world content.

    Flying mounts are really boring, I literally just point my char in the correct direction and afk.

    Will be nice to experience the world again
    If you unsub becuase "MUH FLYING MOUNT" You are basically saying i enjoy randomly flying around rather then being immersed in the content.

    Go play Elite Dangerous if thats the type of game you want. There is alot of dead space there to float around in.

  3. #5523
    Quote Originally Posted by Twaster View Post
    Why was it put back in? That is the speculation bit on your part.
    It was put back in because the anit flyers lost.

  4. #5524
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    MoP isn't WoD but nice try at semantics.
    They're both expansions for WoW. WoW's subscriptions hit a low-point of 6.8m during MoP, thanks to the release of WoD it jumped up to 10m 6 months later.

    I know technically 3.2m isn't 50% of 6.8m, but as you claimed 4.4m was half of 10m I figure I was entitled.

    Regardless, if you average it out WoW lost 1.2m subscribers in the last 6 months of MoP and first 6 months of WoD, which is pretty average for the expansion since subs started dropping in Cata.

  5. #5525
    Quote Originally Posted by MangoSpirit View Post
    If you unsub becuase "MUH FLYING MOUNT" You are basically saying i enjoy randomly flying around rather then being immersed in the content.

    Go play Elite Dangerous if thats the type of game you want. There is alot of dead space there to float around in.
    You can do both.

    You can be immersed in the environment flying around on your own accord and/or doing content that Blizzard designs.

    You don't need momma blizzard to hold your beak to the feed you every step of the way.

  6. #5526
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    It was put back in because the anit flyers lost.
    Speculation.

  7. #5527
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    They're both expansions for WoW. WoW's subscriptions hit a low-point of 6.8m during MoP, thanks to the release of WoD it jumped up to 10m 6 months later.

    I know technically 3.2m isn't 50% of 6.8m, but as you claimed 4.4m was half of 10m I figure I was entitled.

    Regardless, if you average it out WoW lost 1.2m subscribers in the last 6 months of MoP and first 6 months of WoD, which is pretty average for the expansion since subs started dropping in Cata.
    We are talking about WoD and you bring in MoP which has nothing to do with the discussion. That is like saying that snake saved the frog from drowning while it is half way into is mouth and dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twaster View Post
    Speculation.
    That is impossible for that to be speculation as flying was put back in the game in WoD. Anti flyers lost.

  8. #5528
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    It was put back in because the anit flyers lost.
    Because anti-flyers are mostly strawmen. Not many people are against the idea of flying altogether, but many are either happy or ambivalent about waiting until the end of an expansion and completing an achievement first. It's this "many" who prompted Blizzard to go for the pathfinder achievement.

  9. #5529
    Deleted
    The flying mounts are not forcing anyone to ride them. They are however allowing everyone to bypass player interaction in the open world and a lot of people think that, as an MMO with two factions at war, the game would be better off without them for that reason. It doesn't matter if you decide not to use them cause the vast majority of players around you will.

    he mind of a gamer is to make everything as easy as possible for him/her. I'm not talking about difficulty here in that way, but that the gamer creates way to counter much of the difficulty in a special way.

    Saying ''Why do you care, it doesn't affect you, don't do it yourself then, mind your own business'' goes against a gamers mind.

    Why would a gamer, that likes using his/her ground mount, completely ignore using the flying mount when it is the best option?

    Blizzard finally got their shit together, and removes flying (sadly temporarily) for everyone, so the best choice now will be the ground mount. It will be fair for everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    We are talking about WoD and you bring in MoP which has nothing to do with the discussion. That is like saying that snake saved the frog from drowning while it is half way into is mouth and dead.

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    That is impossible for that to be speculation as flying was put back in the game in WoD. Anti flyers lost.
    "It was put back in because anti flyers lost" - It dosent even make english sense.

    You suggested that it was put back in due to lost subs. That is pure speculation.

  10. #5530
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Because anti-flyers are mostly strawmen. Not many people are against the idea of flying altogether, but many are either happy or ambivalent about waiting until the end of an expansion and completing an achievement first. It's this "many" who prompted Blizzard to go for the pathfinder achievement.
    That all changed when Blizzard dropped the bomb of no flying forever. Players thought it was coming with patch 6.2 and that never was going to happen. Most of the "neutral" players are now pro flying and the backlash will be more severe and sudden in Legion. This time around instead of the six month mark I predict it will happen within three months of launch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twaster View Post
    The flying mounts are not forcing anyone to ride them. They are however allowing everyone to bypass player interaction in the open world and a lot of people think that, as an MMO with two factions at war, the game would be better off without them for that reason. It doesn't matter if you decide not to use them cause the vast majority of players around you will.

    he mind of a gamer is to make everything as easy as possible for him/her. I'm not talking about difficulty here in that way, but that the gamer creates way to counter much of the difficulty in a special way.

    Saying ''Why do you care, it doesn't affect you, don't do it yourself then, mind your own business'' goes against a gamers mind.

    Why would a gamer, that likes using his/her ground mount, completely ignore using the flying mount when it is the best option?

    Blizzard finally got their shit together, and removes flying (sadly temporarily) for everyone, so the best choice now will be the ground mount. It will be fair for everyone.

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    "It was put back in because anti flyers lost" - It dosent even make english sense.

    You suggested that it was put back in due to lost subs. That is pure speculation.
    Instances and portals do more to bypass player interactions. Phasing tech introduced in MoP has done the most damage to player interaction. I can't even play with my friends anymore if they are on a different part of the quest or zone questline.

  11. #5531
    Deleted
    Given a zone of a certain size use of terrain enables them to fit more in without breaking immersion. It enables them to have some sort of linear story and reveal more as you progress through it. I like this - plus they generally make a better job of the scenery when they know where you'll be viewing it from. It only looks decent from the air when you're the right sort of distance from it.

    When you eventually get flight and hover over the zone you see how completely infeasible it really is. WoW gets called theme park and when you get flight you see how much it looks like one - everything packed together but with careful attention to line of site etc, looks perfectly plausible to someone on the ground. It still make me laugh how close Dalaran is to ICC!

    This may be what you're calling the 'lazy' approach but I'm guessing Blizz would prefer not to have to consider flight in everything quest they do.

    Generally speaking with most of the current/past content, over than sightseeing, the main use of flight is to avoid game play (there's no game play in free flight and very little ever happens besides a few areas designed for it).

    Anyway, these arguments have been going on for months and won't get resolved. The important point is avoid it looking like this is just a one-sided campaign - yes some people want flying but equally there are others that are happy with the direction Blizz are taking.

    It's not even like you're losing anything . Don't buy the the new expansion and *NOTHING* changes for you. They're just not giving you an option in the future that you've become accustomed to (that made players lazy imo).
    Last edited by mmocad2d31bcfa; 2016-05-18 at 09:25 PM.

  12. #5532
    Quote Originally Posted by Twaster View Post
    Given a zone of a certain size use of terrain enables them to fit more in without breaking immersion. It enables them to have some sort of linear story and reveal more as you progress through it. I like this - plus they generally make a better job of the scenery when they know where you'll be viewing it from. It only looks decent from the air when you're the right sort of distance from it.

    When you eventually get flight and hover over the zone you see how completely infeasible it really is. WoW gets called theme park and when you get flight you see how much it looks like one - everything packed together but with careful attention to line of site etc, looks perfectly plausible to someone on the ground. It still make me laugh how close Dalaran is to ICC!

    This may be what you're calling the 'lazy' approach but I'm guessing Blizz would prefer not to have to consider flight in everything quest they do.

    Generally speaking with most of the current/past content, over than sightseeing, the main use of flight is to avoid game play (there's no game play in free flight and very little ever happens besides a few areas designed for it).

    Anyway, these arguments have been going on for months and won't get resolved. The important point is avoid it looking like this is just a one-sided campaign - yes some people want flying in Draenor but equally there are others that are happy with the direction Blizz are taking.

    It's not even like you're losing anything come 6.0. Don't buy the the new expansion and *NOTHING* changes for you. They're just not giving you an option in the future that you've become accustomed to (that made players lazy imo).
    Broken Isles are smaller and they are only four leveling zones. Please keep up with the Legion design. Thanks.

  13. #5533
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Well, here's your problem: lack of understanding and spinning of facts to your personal needs.
    Psychological projection...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Yes, there are reasons WoW had its biggest growth in these eras, and flight MIGHT be one of them. Surely nothing like word of mouth of a great game, still being relatively new (in terms of an MMORPG), fun raid design, interesting world content, or anything else plays a factor into this, right?
    "might be one of them".
    ...

    Sure, its not like Blizzard used flight as a SELLING POINT for those 2 expansions...

    Also, when WoTLK hit WoW was pushing 5 years old mark. I gaming, thats old already

    As for "fun raid design, interesting world content, or anything else plays a factor into this":

    FINALLY you got something right! Wtih those expansions, the devs WERE putting effort in the game, and it had reflection on every aspect of it.

    For WoD, they did not, and the results are well-known. But for WoD they decided to invent the notion that Flight was something that had to go for the sake of a "SAVAGE!!!" world and stuff.

    They. Lied.

    Not only that, but proceeded to pretend that flight is not only a problem (it isn´t), but also pretended that is was THE PROBLEM of the game, possibly as a smokescreen to avoid "dealing" with the general lack of quality of WoD.

    And now they intend to do the same for Legion.

  14. #5534
    Deleted
    The reason I don't like flying is simply because the world seems bigger and more alive when you have to ride places and meet people on your way. I also loved world pvp and when everyone is flying it is hard to start fights! I realize not everyone like pvp, I'm just saying why I personally want no flying If you're getting ganked on a pvp server, flying away shouldn't happen. You should ask for help and a big fun fight should break out! Happened all the time during Vanilla WoW and also for a good while in TBC eventhough people started flying.
    I know people blame nostalgia when people say they liked Vanilla WoW and so on, and nostalgia does change your view somewhat. But I really liked how things were more timeconsuming and "harder" as in more complicated, not that it needed more skill. It's not nostalgia speaking for me as I have been playing on some Vanilla Servers and it's been really fun! It's just hard finding a stable server with a good community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Connll View Post
    Psychological projection...



    "might be one of them".
    ...

    Sure, its not like Blizzard used flight as a SELLING POINT for those 2 expansions...

    Also, when WoTLK hit WoW was pushing 5 years old mark. I gaming, thats old already

    As for "fun raid design, interesting world content, or anything else plays a factor into this":

    FINALLY you got something right! Wtih those expansions, the devs WERE putting effort in the game, and it had reflection on every aspect of it.

    For WoD, they did not, and the results are well-known. But for WoD they decided to invent the notion that Flight was something that had to go for the sake of a "SAVAGE!!!" world and stuff.

    They. Lied.

    Not only that, but proceeded to pretend that flight is not only a problem (it isn´t), but also pretended that is was THE PROBLEM of the game, possibly as a smokescreen to avoid "dealing" with the general lack of quality of WoD.

    And now they intend to do the same for Legion.
    You sound very entitled, and whiny.

    Flying mounts never should have been added to the game, and even the developers themselves said they regret having added them.

  15. #5535
    Quote Originally Posted by Connll View Post
    Psychological projection...



    "might be one of them".
    ...

    Sure, its not like Blizzard used flight as a SELLING POINT for those 2 expansions...

    Also, when WoTLK hit WoW was pushing 5 years old mark. I gaming, thats old already

    As for "fun raid design, interesting world content, or anything else plays a factor into this":

    FINALLY you got something right! Wtih those expansions, the devs WERE putting effort in the game, and it had reflection on every aspect of it.

    For WoD, they did not, and the results are well-known. But for WoD they decided to invent the notion that Flight was something that had to go for the sake of a "SAVAGE!!!" world and stuff.

    They. Lied.

    Not only that, but proceeded to pretend that flight is not only a problem (it isn´t), but also pretended that is was THE PROBLEM of the game, possibly as a smokescreen to avoid "dealing" with the general lack of quality of WoD.

    And now they intend to do the same for Legion.
    Brilliant post. +1

    Well said. Let me add that this is gearing up to be a repeat of WoD with Legion because they are under the misgudied notion players will accept this type of game play since garrisons are out of the way. They are in for a rude awakening unfortunately.

    Preach said it best when he said he was fine with no flying in WoD but with the way they designed Leigon quests even he wants flying now.

  16. #5536
    Deleted
    Adding in some floating rocks or inaccessible cliffs doesn't mean that WoW is suddenly designed for flight. The core of the game was not changed at all with the introduction of flight and it can still be used to skip and trivialise content. Unlimited flight does not work in a video game unless the whole game is centred around it As in it's frequently the only way to access content, there are threats in the air, it's integrated properly into the game's combat system. None of that is in WoW. Flight was added in TBC with no further changes to the game mechanics.

    Ill say it again -If you really want "facts" then I'll point out that Stan Wiscoski is entirely correct in his assessment of flying making the world feel empty.

  17. #5537
    Quote Originally Posted by Twaster View Post
    Haven't you seen the famous Tolken's tale about a journey starting in a hobbit village, mount on the eagles and destroy the ring 1 hour later?

    That was the best fantasy tale i ever watched ^^
    Impossible. Sauron's eye would of seen them coming and he would of magicd their beaks off. The eagles could only go into Mordor after the ring, and Sauron, were destroyed.

    Now, did you seen that famous movie Top Gun? About an up and coming airforce pilot that rides his horse around all day?

  18. #5538
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Brilliant post. +1

    Well said. Let me add that this is gearing up to be a repeat of WoD with Legion because they are under the misgudied notion players will accept this type of game play since garrisons are out of the way. They are in for a rude awakening unfortunately.

    Preach said it best when he said he was fine with no flying in WoD but with the way they designed Leigon quests even he wants flying now.
    When you say stuff like this, it makes think you are here to do nothing more than troll. There is no logical or intelligent debate in most of your posts on this subject.

  19. #5539
    Quote Originally Posted by Twaster View Post
    When you say stuff like this, it makes think you are here to do nothing more than troll. There is no logical or intelligent debate in most of your posts on this subject.
    You joined May of 2016. Of the 29 posts you have all 29 interesting enough are in this thread.

    My concerns with Legion involves pruning, no flying, gearing system, etc. You are entirely dedicated to this thread and thanks for the free bumps. Bravo. Back to the topic of this thread though...yeah flying is important to WoW's immersion because WoW's flight paths stopped being relevant.

    If you play a hunter and have to keep taking that flight path from southern Broken Isles to High Mountain to reach the class hall in Legion my condolences.

  20. #5540
    Deleted
    I absolutely love the removal of flying because of PvP, but also because flying makes the world feel small and uninhabited. I bet all of you who are currently filling this thread with tears over your flying mounts will end up meeting eachother on the roads of Draenor in order to talk about how much you miss flying - and all of a sudden you've had a spontaneous and social interaction like we used to have in vanilla - and Blizzard's intentions will prove successful.

    I'm sick and tired of this single player bullshit, and it's going to be extremely refreshing to be able to finally fight allies when they won't be able to just shadowmeld and fly away. I rarely agree with Blizzard's idiotic directions (been hating the last 2 expansions like cancer), but finally they seem to be making the right decisions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    You joined May of 2016. Of the 29 posts you have all 29 interesting enough are in this thread.

    My concerns with Legion involves pruning, no flying, gearing system, etc. You are entirely dedicated to this thread and thanks for the free bumps. Bravo. Back to the topic of this thread though...yeah flying is important to WoW's immersion because WoW's flight paths stopped being relevant.

    If you play a hunter and have to keep taking that flight path from southern Broken Isles to High Mountain to reach the class hall in Legion my condolences.
    The fact that you are still hung up on this... is just sad.

    /pats your head

    Let it go junior, and stop derailing a 282 page fallacy.

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