20 Man Mythic: Success or Failure?

[Deleted]

It killed my guild. It killed multiple guilds that my friends were in.

It was a failure.

Same. Our guild only got 3 Garrosh mounts in MOP but we couldnt handle getting 10 more players for 20 man. Left the game due to 20 man Mything so for me= big failure.

[Blackmist]

I think if they're going to keep it, they need to keep the cross realm aspect. Recruiting became nigh on impossible on my realm.

Better still, let us form cross realm guilds, so we can keep hold of the people we meet.

[Zardi]

Success at conceptual level. Failure at everything else - at least under the environment it was released in. I'm sure that in a different expansion, the results wouldn't have been as drastic.

[Deleted]

From the point of view of having a tightly tuned hardcore raid - success.

From the point of view of anyone who liked raiding at any other level - a complete trainwreck. A vortex of shit and drama that destroyed guilds and flattened servers. Mythic being 20 man sucked the rest of the raiding game down a shitty large groups focused and generally unfriendly path that it likely won't ever recover from.

[Taeldorian]

It was a success, although it did kill off a lot of guilds or it forced those guilds to remove players/alternate players (which meant increasing raid nights/hours to get everyone in at one point) since it went down from 25-20.

The main problem I have though is that I don't believe we need 4 difficulties. LFR isn't needed when normal is just as easy, it only has a few more mechanics and it's arguable that finding a group for normal is easier than LFR since dps have an hour+ que. Normal/Heroic/Mythic seem okay, but I preferred it when it was normal (easy mode) and heroic (hard mode) with 10m and 25m settings. Now we have LFR, 10-30? man normal/heroic and 20 man mythic. It feels unnecessary.

[TheWindWalker]

Considering they never consistently bothered to make "bring the class" any more important than it had ever been before and basically the best they can really claim is "having a Priest mind-control sure helped on that one boss" without drifting into the overwhelming viscous territory of even pretending that "class stacking" was a new thing, they don't really have any thing to show for adding Mythic other than the massive drop in raiding guilds.

[ImpTaimer]

Of course it had to be a success. All the raids were designed around 20-man, then downtuned for lower difficulties.

Flex balance was a failure. There was no thought put into the difficulty slider except padding content to make Mythic look more interesting.

Lockout system for Mythic remains a failure though. The previous lockout system where you're saved per boss, and can't enter a raid with a boss that died on your ID was perfectly fine.

Class balance (and design) was a huge failure that made many people not even bother with raiding in the first place.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

My guild died because of it, i know that much.

The amount of blizzard lapdogs is this site is off the charts. Countless guilds died because of 20 man mythic, hundreds of thousands arguably quit the game because of it, "huge success though"...

[Deleted]

It is the perfect solution. 25man always felt like extra 5 players are unknown entities, hard to control and hard for the leadership to have in mind at all times. 10man felt extremely small, you couldn't even have fun on TS after a point because only 2-3 jokers can only go so far entertaining the rest.

Since you can't have odd numbers of players on groups because of technical reasons like healing spells, you had to have multiples of 5, and you couldn't have 15 because you can't have 3 healers and not be too little in most bosses, or have 4 and not be too much.

Hence, not the perfect solution in an ideal world, but the perfect solution with what Blizzard had at hand. Only issue is that the mythic saves appear unnecessary in many cases. Most importantly the realm-restriction seems unnecessary and mainly for transfers.

[Shinv]

I think it would have been fine if there weren't so many raid difficulties causing burnout before you get to it.

[GetREAL]

Huge failure. When the hardest boss in the game is the attendance boss you know that the format is fail. Currently stuck on manny with 0 progression for the past 4 weeks because of people failing to show and now I am about done raiding. It killed the fun in the game for me personally and I probably will not return in legion knowing the format is staying.

[TechGnosis]

Wrong metric. Players, not guilds, should be what you're tracking. If raids suddenly go from 10 man to 20 man, it only follows that there will be half as many raiding guilds.

While strictly true, there is a connection in many cases. My guild was a solid 10man heroic guild, and it imploded once they announced Mythic as folks freaked and rushed to find a larger guild to raid with so they could continue raiding heroic (mythic) content, regardless of what it was called now. We had lost a healer and a tank, and when we attempted to recruit to replace, we couldn't as everyone was attempting to join a mythic guild (or not at the same level of raiding as we were used to). Since we were a 10man because many of us were friends who had been raiding together for a while, and we didnt want to deal with trying to integrate into a new without our friends and twice the folks alot of us quit.

So yes, there were less guilds, by definition of being twice as large as the typical guild had been previously. But you also had less guilds due to less people. A good number of folks want to play with their friends.

[dopefishz]

Meh, I hate 20 man mythic. It worked as long as there were enough people joining the guild/playing the game in Highmaul and early BRM. Mid BRM we struggled so damn hard to find people that are able to raid mythic time- and skillwise despite us constantly being in the top 15 guilds on the server. So many days had to be skipped, that led to even more people leaving the guild/game. Mythic didn't only kill my guild, it killed a lot more guilds not only on our server. IMO it's a failure and they should go back to 10/20(25) man or try out 15 man mythic - can't be much more of a failure than 20 man mythic.

Then again I guess it was much easier for them to balance for a fixed raidsize.

[Deleted]

That's not a problem with the flex format. That's a problem with your raid leader.

Of course but given the option, most semi-casual groups would do it and the majority of the group would say "YEAH INVITE HIM NOW" its just the way it is

[Flurryfang]

I would say that it is a succes. It is content, which pulls people into it and the 20-man limit makes it so that there is some competion for spots. My personal opnion is always the more players, the better. I think my attitude would be the same with 25-man as i have with 20-man. There is a lot of people in there, and i enjoy the amount of diverse groups you can put together.

I really hope, that they never will reduce the size of the mythic raids to 10-man again, unless they make raiding content, where you can only play as 10-players. Would love some mythic karazhan/ZA content anyday.

- - - Updated - - -

Huge failure. When the hardest boss in the game is the attendance boss you know that the format is fail. Currently stuck on manny with 0 progression for the past 4 weeks because of people failing to show and now I am about done raiding. It killed the fun in the game for me personally and I probably will not return in legion knowing the format is staying.

The attendance boss has been the hardest boss for all of WoW, from Vanilla to MoP. It has never been hard and raid size will never help with that. It is always gonna be hard to find the perfect number of good players; when you want 10, you either have 8 or 12, and when you want 20-25, you have 18 or 32.

[Socialhealer]

Same. Our guild only got 3 Garrosh mounts in MOP but we couldnt handle getting 10 more players for 20 man. Left the game due to 20 man Mything so for me= big failure.

13? 14? whatever months of siege, you managed 3 mythic 10man kills, mythic didn't kill your guild, your guild was never good enough for mythic in the first place, 4/4 upgrades 14 months of progress and you did it in the last 3 weeks or so? the content should of been finished 6 months earlier and you would of never cleared it.

don't care if i sound elitist, but these guilds BARELY scraping to clear content when it's out for far far too fucking long are not ready for the highest level of raiding at least not clearing it, no-one except bad guilds wants 14 month patches with no content =/

[Video Games]

I never thought I'd say this, but I'd prefer to go back to 10 mans.

[Deleted]

Personally it locked us out of content. We were able to clear 10 man heroics fine until they just decided to bump it up to 20 (25+ if you actually want to raid). With our pool of people this was just not possible. Hell, it still is. We are at about 15 people now on good nights.
Thing is - we killed Archi back in Oct if I recall correctly. So people are loosing interest. And I cannot blame them. We cannot progress on mythic because we don't have enough people because we are loosing people almost as fast as we recruit them to the team (overall interest is low - like you can imagine).
It's a struggle.

So for raids like us the change was horrible and made the current content ... even more straining.

[Bullettime]

I don't like the scaling up after two expansions in a row of guilds getting settled into their 10 cores.

It felt a lot more punishing to low and medium population servers who took it really harshly and was one of the main reasons for the mass exoduses to the high population servers. Suddenly low-medium populations had to try to guild merge, which rarely ever works, or recruit from a dwindling pool of players. Many just collapsed or found themselves being like the only real raid guild on server. People just started flocking to servers like Stormrage.

[Fynzie]

Clear success, You had plenty of time to adapt and if your guild died because of that it's because you let her die.