20 Man Mythic: Success or Failure?

[EzG]

Failure. BRF and HFC are by far the worst raids the game has ever seen and the whole idea of 20man was to bring some awesome mechanics without having to worry about 10/25 balance and yet most of the bosses had the same AOE adds IN 3SEC or WIPE or kill X add within Y seconds or you wipe or someone dies

By far? Well I personally would go so far as to say they were the worst raids. I disliked DS and Tot4W (yes it's still a raid with 2 bosses, so was gruul), but definitely not putting these as the worst, I actually enjoyed HFC. The unique mechanics for 20 was kind of a loss though since the only boss that really had a unique mechanic to change your roster was furnace and the use of priest mc's. 20 man I think was actually a decent success, although I kind of like larger raid sizes so saying goodbye to 25 man sucked, but so far this new raid size has been great. Also your argument for wiping mechanics... doesn't that really just apply to raiding as a whole?

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Definately a failure.

The raids were good don't get me wrong but as a whole and what it put forth to many of the smaller communities, it was a tombstone.

It baffles me that they thought it was a good idea but hell, at least they sticked to their guns I suppose. They do have more classes than players now for a 10-man raid, so it's a good excuse to use but in general I still think that going for a bulky 20 was not the best idea. Hell maybe 15 would've actually worked out better.

I know for one thing that my old guild would probably be together still if that were the case when WoD shenanigans started.

It's unfortunate that you personally had to deal with the drawbacks of 20 man raiding when it was released with your guild falling apart, and that's most likely why you think it was a complete failure, but how could you not think it is a good idea. Sure nothing is perfect, but it killed the annoying 10 vs 25 debate by allowing them to balance a challenging mode to apply to all raiders. Most guilds that are 10 man and have been for awhile had to adapt and recruit, and if they couldn't, then they were left in the dust, but honestly if you refuse to keep at it to play the difficulty you want then you shouldn't be getting it (said broadly, not pointing you out).

[Einsz]

Also your argument for wiping mechanics... doesn't that really just apply to raiding as a whole?

It's not about wiping mechanics at all, my point is most of the fights has this stupid lazy mechanic to either aoe lolstorm something within 3sec window or burst down X adds which makes all the fights look the same.

[Spiral Mage]

Considering how frequently you see people with Mythic HFC gear, I'd say it worked out fairly well.

I've never had any real interest in that 'level' of raiding, to spite having been in Heroic (what is Mythic) guilds in the past. I mean, I like a challenge but there's a limit. After clearing the raid the first time, I didn't really wanna go back and do the same boss but 'harder', i.e. more annoying.

Gear's never been a motivator for me either, it's a means to an end and I'll take upgrades that come my way but I'm not gonna go do the hardest content just because of the gear. I'm not that masochistic.

[Deleted]

In the grand scheme, I think it's a failure because of how much Blizzard lost in terms of the raiding community.

The 10vs25 debate is subjective I think, because for me, it was never an issue. What I mean is, I never saw a point in arguing which was better. You just played the one that worked for you. Pseudo-problem really, in other words, not an actual issue at all.

the loss of the people was the immediate result at least. Time will tell what becomes of it. Frankly, being obvious and honest, I do also agree that in the longer run, it may have been a better decision indeed.
But it's a double-edged blade of a topic for me, I can't really say that it was a success either... it still leans more and heavily towards the failure department in my eyes.

[Deleted]

Better than 25 but fixed raid numbers are always going to be a pain. It would've been good if it flexed a bit at least or of there was a 10 man option aswell.

[Relapses]

Hands down the best decision Blizzard ever made for organized endgame raiding. If you're too stubborn or lazy to move off a dead realm and are unable to raid as a result of it, that's your fault not Blizzard's. Suck it up, princesses.

[Beet]

I don't think Blizzard even followed up on their promise to make boss fights where you needed certain classes did they? I don't know as I didn't play much of WoD much less raid. But Mythic sounded to me like it was going to be designed like many TBC style fights where you might need a Mage for spellsteal, or a warlock tank etc.

I also think Mythic raiding was too little too late. WoW has never been so under populated before as it is now. And for Mythic to succeed you need to have a healthy large population. I think if this was added in 2010 it would have worked like a charm.

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Hands down the best decision Blizzard ever made for organized endgame raiding. If you're too stubborn or lazy to move off a dead realm and are unable to raid as a result of it, that's your fault not Blizzard's. Suck it up, princesses.

Actually it's blizzards fault for not merging realms by now. Why the fuck is it a good idea to have as many realms as we had when the population was 12 million, now that we have like 3 million? Dumb de dumb dumb dumb.

[Deleted]

I don't think Blizzard even followed up on their promise to make boss fights where you needed certain classes did they? I don't know as I didn't play much of WoD much less raid. But Mythic sounded to me like it was going to be designed like many TBC style fights where you might need a Mage for spellsteal, or a warlock tank etc.

I also think Mythic raiding was too little too late. WoW has never been so under populated before as it is now. And for Mythic to succeed you need to have a healthy large population. I think if this was added in 2010 it would have worked like a charm.

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Actually it's blizzards fault for not merging realms by now. Why the fuck is it a good idea to have as many realms as we had when the population was 12 million, now that we have like 3 million? Dumb de dumb dumb dumb.

Only 1 fight.

Blast Furnace in BRF required a priest or 2 for mind controls but all else hasn't followed through. There are a few fights where DKs are really useful, almost like mandatory but still doable without em.

Don't feed the troll m8. His post was toxic and nothing new.

[Relapses]

Actually it's blizzards fault for not merging realms by now. Why the fuck is it a good idea to have as many realms as we had when the population was 12 million, now that we have like 3 million? Dumb de dumb dumb dumb.

Likely keeping the dead realms unmerged in preparation for the initial surge of players in Legion. Blizzard doesn't owe anybody realm mergers, though. Moving servers is a cost associated with the game and if you want to plant your feet on your terrible, dead realm because you don't want to pay Blizzard to solve your own issue, that's again on the player not Blizzard.

[elmoe420]

Only 1 fight.

Blast Furnace in BRF required a priest or 2 for mind controls but all else hasn't followed through. There are a few fights where DKs are really useful, almost like mandatory but still doable without em.

I've never understood why they couldn't do Blast Furnace exactly the same way they handled the mind controls needed for Instructor Razuvious. They simply added two mind control crystals for 10 man groups which legitimately might not have any Priests. In 25 man they assumed you would have the needed Priests and did not include the crystals.

[Relapses]

I've never understood why they couldn't do Blast Furnace exactly the same way they handled the mind controls needed for Instructor Razuvious. They simply added two mind control crystals for 10 man groups which legitimately might not have any Priests. In 25 man they assumed you would have the needed Priests and did not include the crystals.

Because 10M "Heroic" is a casual friendly piece of shit raid difficulty which needed to be eradicated from the face of the planet. :^)

[oplawlz]

It was a rousing success. Mythic should be exclusive, and for the most part it was. Now they just need to find a way to prevent buying runs and it will be perfect - I'd like to see mythic raids require everyone be from the same guild to get loot or achievs, and have a 14 day cd after joining. Not fullproof, but a decent deterrent that still allows trials to join the raid - just with no personal benefit.

[Kallisto]

Or again, the fact that 10m raiding was largely what was keeping the raid scenes alive on lower population servers. Forcing everyone to suddenly merge and upscale to continue just resulted in a lot of server transfers to servers like Mal'ganis, Stormrage, etc.

Suddenly? It wasn't suddenly it was 14 months from announcement about the mythic difficulty level and the set size. If you or your guild were going to be serious about it you had from mid Nov 2013 to basically late December 2014. That's pleanty of time to put out feelers for merging, advertise for recruiting. Test new raiders to see if they were capable enough to raid. There's basically no excuses for guilds who failed to do it.

It wasn't a sudden surprise, a year is long enough to prepare for anything.

[Chrno]

succes, yes it was

[Relapses]

Suddenly? It wasn't suddenly it was 14 months from announcement about the mythic difficulty level and the set size. If you or your guild were going to be serious about it you had from mid Nov 2013 to basically late December 2014. That's pleanty of time to put out feelers for merging, advertise for recruiting. Test new raiders to see if they were capable enough to raid. There's basically no excuses for guilds who failed to do it.

It wasn't a sudden surprise, a year is long enough to prepare for anything.

I was in a 10M guild that transitioned into 25M during SoO. The guild I was in raided from 2:30 AM to 6:30 AM. There does not exist a shittier timeslot for player recruitment. Yet, me managed to have a full roster going into T17 and finished US 89th on Blackhand. It was entirely possible, but players want to blame Blizzard for not merging realms / not catering to small raid sizes / whatever imaginary BL1ZZ Y U NO DO DIS nonsense they come up with. Threads like this always devolve into idiotic 10v25 debates anyway. Dual raid difficulty tiers produced shittier encounters than Mythic's fixed raid size; people dislike logistics being a part of the raid difficulty but I don't see how having a raid difficulty that encouraged shitty players to identify themselves as "Heroic" raiders was any better.

[Kallisto]

I was in a 10M guild that transitioned into 25M during SoO. The guild I was in raided from 2:30 AM to 6:30 AM. There does not exist a shittier timeslot for player recruitment. Yet, me managed to have a full roster going into T17 and finished US 89th on Blackhand. It was entirely possible, but players want to blame Blizzard for not merging realms / not catering to small raid sizes / whatever imaginary BL1ZZ Y U NO DO DIS nonsense they come up with. Threads like this always devolve into idiotic 10v25 debates anyway. Dual raid difficulty tiers produced shittier encounters than Mythic's fixed raid size; people dislike logistics being a part of the raid difficulty but I don't see how having a raid difficulty that encouraged shitty players to identify themselves as "Heroic" raiders was any better.

Honestly I think it should have been for names LFR, Easy, Normal, Mythic. But that's just semantics on names of difficulties.

[Fynzie]

Might be the first time I hear someone defending Blizzard about how they handle their servers managment.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Didn't see the massive collapse of raiding guilds some of the doomsayers were claiming it'd bring.

Honestly I think burnout hit raiding guilds harder than finding 10 more bodies.

[Echo of Soul]

Both failure and success in my opinion. The difficulty was maybe a bit too high but great either way. This however led to a lot of players getting burned out from non stop progression and simply quit raiding all together, making recruitment a complete nightmare. Also the model where you first had to progress through the raid at heroic difficulty and then start over again at mythic difficulty didn't make things any better. If we would've had a mythic>mythic progression I think that a lot more people would've stuck around since clearing it at heroic for downgrades wouldn't have made sense.

I truly believe we need shared lockouts and no overlap in iLvls so a heroic guild will continue to do heroic when a new tier comes out and mythic raiders will start with mythic raiding on day one when a new tier comes out.

[Deleted]

Likely keeping the dead realms unmerged in preparation for the initial surge of players in Legion. Blizzard doesn't owe anybody realm mergers, though. Moving servers is a cost associated with the game and if you want to plant your feet on your terrible, dead realm because you don't want to pay Blizzard to solve your own issue, that's again on the player not Blizzard.

This shows you probably never played on a low pop server first of all many of us swapped many times to flee from the problem. I fled 3 times from low pops to high pops. Not very high/ full because they had login queues. But then again those realms died out again. Check alonsus eu High-> to low while connected with 3 other realms!! Second problem is people play with their guilds, and not everyone wants to move so your thorn in between choices. It's blizzards fail nothing other than that. If my realm would have been active i'd prolly still play right now